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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: christopera]
    #26941422 - 09/17/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Generally speaking, if in the US, you kill someone (no matter the reason) during the commission of a crime, you will be guilty of murder.

An example not related to this case at all.  You are driving a car, you are unlicensed, while driving through an intersection where you have a green light, another driver runs a red light and hits you and they die in the process.  In this case you would be guilty of vehicular manslaughter.

The logic behind this, is even though the other driver caused the crash, because you were on the road illegally, you actually caused the crash.  This is due to if you had been following the laws (not driving) you would not have been in a car, at that location, at that specific instant, and thus no collision would have occurred.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26941423 - 09/17/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
It's still over your head.


A pretentious attitude with no logic to back it up.

Guess i get to unpack this ‘hyperbole’.

Quote:

christopera said:

If an aggressor shows up carrying a gun and kills people, it's hyperbolic to claim self defense. He arrived willing to kill.


but that’s not what happened.

Quote:

christopera said:

If a person shows up ready to chase a person with a gun, are they attempting suicide? No, that was hyperbolic. They were likely aggressors too.


in this case they were the sole aggressor

Quote:

christopera said:

But when an aggressor goes against another aggressor on a city street during an unlawful scenario,


Kyle wasn’t the aggressor, you’re purposefully muddying the waters with this fake scenario.

Quote:

christopera said:

and one aggressor kills two other aggressors through the use of gun, that doesn't suddenly exempt the killer based on self defense.


But that didn’t happen.

Quote:

christopera said:

The scenario has already moved past that point.


your scenario has been in a fictional territory for a while.

Quote:

christopera said:

There's no hyperbole in that statement. If you bring a gun to a gun fight and kill somebody, it is murder.


I choose not to engage you in your fictional scenario world.

It was self-defense, it is on video.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow]
    #26941425 - 09/17/20 09:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You aren't actually saying anything. The "no it didn't" defense ended in the 3rd grade.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #26941427 - 09/17/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Generally speaking, if in the US, you kill someone (no matter the reason) during the commission of a crime, you will be guilty of murder.

An example not related to this case at all.  You are driving a car, you are unlicensed, while driving through an intersection where you have a green light, another driver runs a red light and hits you and they die in the process.  In this case you would be guilty of vehicular manslaughter.

The logic behind this, is even though the other driver caused the crash, because you were on the road illegally, you actually caused the crash.  This is due to if you had been following the laws (not driving) you would not have been in a car, at that location, at that specific instant, and thus no collision would have occurred.





I've already been fucking over this in this very thread several pages back god damn



--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9]
    #26941430 - 09/17/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Generally speaking, if in the US, you kill someone (no matter the reason) during the commission of a crime, you will be guilty of murder.

An example not related to this case at all.  You are driving a car, you are unlicensed, while driving through an intersection where you have a green light, another driver runs a red light and hits you and they die in the process.  In this case you would be guilty of vehicular manslaughter.

The logic behind this, is even though the other driver caused the crash, because you were on the road illegally, you actually caused the crash.  This is due to if you had been following the laws (not driving) you would not have been in a car, at that location, at that specific instant, and thus no collision would have occurred.




This is why I used the example of bringing a gun to a gun fight, then killing a person, still being murder.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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I’m sorry it had to be me.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: budmanman]
    #26941433 - 09/17/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
Generally speaking, if in the US, you kill someone (no matter the reason) during the commission of a crime, you will be guilty of murder.

An example not related to this case at all.  You are driving a car, you are unlicensed, while driving through an intersection where you have a green light, another driver runs a red light and hits you and they die in the process.  In this case you would be guilty of vehicular manslaughter.

The logic behind this, is even though the other driver caused the crash, because you were on the road illegally, you actually caused the crash.  This is due to if you had been following the laws (not driving) you would not have been in a car, at that location, at that specific instant, and thus no collision would have occurred.





I've already been fucking over this in this very thread several pages back god damn






Thanks, Van O'Steen for that legal representation. I will just never renew my license.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: budmanman]
    #26941440 - 09/17/20 09:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Apologies, you are correct, I forgot an important distinction, the reason the driver was unlicensed was because it was revoked.  Otherwise you are only committing a civil infraction and not a criminal one. My bad, that's a very relevant distinction to make.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: budmanman]
    #26941443 - 09/17/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
I've already been fucking over this in this very thread several pages back god damn



That's in AZ. Is it country wide?

I mean, morally speaking, if one is in possession of a deadly weapon (car/gun/bomb/nuclear missile) without the proper authorisation/tests/etc, then I believe they should be responsible for any harm that comes from using it.

That's morally though - not legally.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: christopera] * 3
    #26941453 - 09/17/20 10:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



Quote:

christopera said:

You guys are the kings of moving the goal posts.


I moved no goal posts, feel free to quote where I did.  I have said the same thing and stuck to it.
The situation was an act of self defense.  It is all on video.

Quote:

christopera said:

That's why I took my hyperbolic stance in the first place.


I don’t think you were being hyperbolic.  I can’t prove it though.

Quote:

christopera said:

The argument went from self defense to the angry mob deserved it.


No, it’s been self-defense the whole time.  It’s all on video.  But it couldn’t of happened to a more deserving group of guys.

Quote:

christopera said:

There is a difference in there, but I bet you guys can't pick it out.


more snarkiness without a leg to stand on.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: christopera]
    #26941463 - 09/17/20 10:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
You aren't actually saying anything. The "no it didn't" defense ended in the 3rd grade.



The situation is a self-defense event.  The evidence is all on video.  I don’t know what more there is to it.  Seems pretty cut and dry.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26941473 - 09/17/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I think the whole case is going to hinge on did he bring the rifle from Illinois, or did he get it in Wisconsin.  This has to do with specific Wisconsin gun law, that while it was illegal for him to possess the firearm underage, the same section of Wisconsin law makes it clear that that it is still legal to defend oneself with said weapon even if he was possessing it underage.

This situation changes dramatically if he crossed state lines with the rifle.  It's important to know that as of this moment he has not been charged with transporting a weapon across state lines.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow]
    #26941475 - 09/17/20 10:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

christopera said:

That's why I took my hyperbolic stance in the first place.


I don’t think you were being hyperbolic.  I can’t prove it though.





I wonder if he was under the impression that the "shoot me, nigga" video took place much closer to the time of the shooting. Rosenbaum arguably did seem to be in a suicidal kind of headspace.


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9]
    #26941489 - 09/17/20 10:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
I think the whole case is going to hinge on did he bring the rifle from Illinois,

or did he get it in Wisconsin. 


Illinios, AFAIK.

Quote:

Ice9 said:

This has to do with specific Wisconsin gun law, that while it was illegal for him to possess the firearm underage, the same section of Wisconsin law makes it clear that that it is still legal to defend oneself with said weapon even if he was possessing it underage.


I don’t know enough about the intracacies of wisconsin gun law to have an opinion of how it will unfold.

Quote:

Ice9 said:

This situation changes dramatically if he crossed state lines with the rifle.


the concensus seems to be he didn’t.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: psi]
    #26941490 - 09/17/20 10:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I ain’t going to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26941497 - 09/17/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Will be interesting to see how this case plays out regardless.  I mean we can argue till we are blue in the face, but it will come down to law, juror selection, and jury instruction.  Time will tell, that's for sure.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9] * 2
    #26941544 - 09/17/20 11:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Free Kyle.


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OnlineBrian Jones
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26941673 - 09/18/20 04:07 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Oh well think what you will he's going to die in prison so I'm happy




My thoughts exactly. I'm not sure if he'll die there, but if he goes to real prison he'll wish he was dead.

So they charged him as an adult?


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

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The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26941757 - 09/18/20 05:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Fact is there's been plenty of shootings that were far more justifiable than Kyle's were, and those people still went to prison.


--------------------
:whyyy:


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26941903 - 09/18/20 07:50 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

budmanman said:
I've already been fucking over this in this very thread several pages back god damn



That's in AZ. Is it country wide?

I mean, morally speaking, if one is in possession of a deadly weapon (car/gun/bomb/nuclear missile) without the proper authorisation/tests/etc, then I believe they should be responsible for any harm that comes from using it.

That's morally though - not legally.




Morally forcing people to get licenses etc is immoral.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9]
    #26941908 - 09/18/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
I think the whole case is going to hinge on did he bring the rifle from Illinois, or did he get it in Wisconsin.  This has to do with specific Wisconsin gun law, that while it was illegal for him to possess the firearm underage, the same section of Wisconsin law makes it clear that that it is still legal to defend oneself with said weapon even if he was possessing it underage.

This situation changes dramatically if he crossed state lines with the rifle.  It's important to know that as of this moment he has not been charged with transporting a weapon across state lines.




Its right there in the defense statement he didn't cross state lines with the gun.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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