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meltdowner
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DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon
#26941266 - 09/17/20 08:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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It never occurred to me that this is what the DNC is doing. Clearly it's obvious. Bannon is innocent and the DNC and the corrupt FBI are targeting Trump supporters for headlines. Disgusting.
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christopera
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: meltdowner]
#26941279 - 09/17/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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OMG, I think you've solved it!
Nah, that's fucking stupid. The Democratic National Party has no control over the fraud case. Maybe Bannon should just stop being a slime ball?
Bannon is literally on Fox promoting his next scheme. Nice!
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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meltdowner
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: christopera]
#26941326 - 09/17/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You watches thw wrong video. Its clear the DNC are headhunting political opponents.
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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christopera
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: meltdowner] 1
#26941392 - 09/17/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I watched that retarded ass video you posted in post 1.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/31/steve-bannon-new-york-court-fraud-case-we-build-wall
Quote:
Bannon, who worked in the White House in the first year of Donald Trump’s presidency, was arrested on 20 August on a luxury yacht off the Connecticut coast. He is alleged to have siphoned money from We Build the Wall, an online fundraiser for Trump’s contentious border wall with Mexico.
Federal prosecutors allege that Bannon used a non-profit he controlled to divert “over $1m from the … online campaign, at least some of which he used to cover hundreds of thousands of dollars in personal expenses”.
Officials said We Build The Wall raised more than $25m.
Three other men – Brian Kolfage, Andrew Badolato and Timothy Shea – are charged. Each faces one count of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and one of conspiracy to commit money laundering. Each count carries a maximum 20-year prison sentence.
Prosecutors claim the men “orchestrated a scheme to defraud hundreds of thousands of donors” who were promised 100% of donations would go to building the wall. Prosecutors also say the defendants made up invoices and bogus “vendor” agreements to cover up their skimming.
Kolfage, Badolato and Shea – who, like Bannon, did not appear visually – pleaded not guilty. Kolfage will remain released pending trial on a $500,000 bond. Badolato and Shea will each remain out on a $250,000 bond.
Oh man, the DNC is totally orchestrating it. No they aren't. The DNC doesn't control federal prosecutors.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Brian Jones
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: meltdowner]
#26941647 - 09/18/20 02:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wouldn't put anything past the DNC, but Steve Bannon is a slimeball who has always operated by political dirty tricks based on lying.
Put it this way, the DNC sucks some of the time; they may suck most of the time. But Steve Bannon sucks during every breath he takes. It's as if Trump gave Alex Jones an official position in his administration. It provides good propaganda to rile up the base, but he hurt Trump in the long run.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26942199 - 09/18/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm actually surprised how many people are taking Trump's side on this. Even Paul Craig Roberts, a guy I hold a lot of respect for, is saying they won't let Trump have win the election (Link with more links in it).
I haven't posted that article yet, because at first it sounded a bit too crazy to me, but now enough people are coming out to make this something we should all keep an eye out for.
Trump wants to ensure our election system is secure, but as usual, the establishment is pushing back.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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meltdowner
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm actually surprised how many people are taking Trump's side on this. Even Paul Craig Roberts, a guy I hold a lot of respect for, is saying they won't let Trump have win the election (Link with more links in it).
I haven't posted that article yet, because at first it sounded a bit too crazy to me, but now enough people are coming out to make this something we should all keep an eye out for.
Trump wants to ensure our election system is secure, but as usual, the establishment is pushing back. 
Vote rigging is real. Chicago, where I grew up, poor families on my street got paid to be bussed to voting booths all over cook country. They told me they voted 3,4,5,6,7 times. Every vote got them paid. I was a kid and disnt give two shits then, but this was in the early 90s. Im amazed no one did anything about it then. Still amazed that we dont require ID to vote. Its just obviously a no brainer move.
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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koods
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: meltdowner]
#26943407 - 09/19/20 12:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
meltdowner said: You watches thw wrong video. Its clear the DNC are headhunting political opponents.
Bannon was indicted by trumps justice department 🤦♂️
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/19/20 12:53 AM)
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koods
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: meltdowner] 1
#26943408 - 09/19/20 12:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
meltdowner said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm actually surprised how many people are taking Trump's side on this. Even Paul Craig Roberts, a guy I hold a lot of respect for, is saying they won't let Trump have win the election (Link with more links in it).
I haven't posted that article yet, because at first it sounded a bit too crazy to me, but now enough people are coming out to make this something we should all keep an eye out for.
Trump wants to ensure our election system is secure, but as usual, the establishment is pushing back. 
Vote rigging is real. Chicago, where I grew up, poor families on my street got paid to be bussed to voting booths all over cook country. They told me they voted 3,4,5,6,7 times. Every vote got them paid. I was a kid and disnt give two shits then, but this was in the early 90s. Im amazed no one did anything about it then. Still amazed that we dont require ID to vote. Its just obviously a no brainer move.
Lol you’re full of shit
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Even Paul Craig Roberts, a guy I hold a lot of respect for, is saying they won't let Trump win the election (Link with more links in it).
And still more stories coming out about an upcoming coup attempt on Trump:
Treason The Unz Review 15 Sep 20
Quote:
The Transition Integrity Project (TIP) is a shadowy group of government, military and media elites who have concocted a plan to spread mayhem and disinformation following the November 3 presidential elections. The strategy takes advantage of the presumed delay in determining the winner of the upcoming election. (due to the deluge of mail-in votes.) The interim period is expected to intensify partisan warfare creating the perfect environment for disseminating propaganda and inciting street violence. The leaders of TIP believe that a mass mobilization will help them to achieve what Russiagate could not, that is, the removal Donald Trump via an illicit coup conjured up by behind-the-scenes powerbrokers and their Democrat allies.
As I much as I dislike Trump, I FULLY SUPPORT his efforts to ensure fairness with the mail in ballots in our upcoming elections.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Now you’re just posing straight up conspiracy theories
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26944352 - 09/19/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wha conspiracy theory? That I support Trump's efforts to ensure mail in voting is accurate?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/19/20 03:10 PM)
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Brian Jones
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OK maybe there's something I'm not aware of here. I thought Trump was doing the exact opposite of that. This is what I've been reading. Trump says if he loses, the election is rigged, and it's because of mail in voting. At the same time, Trump put this new postmaster in whose policies seemed to me be designed to defund and destroy the U.S. Postal Service, which would conveniently make Trump's theory, at least to some people sound accurate. It would slow down the mail as much as possible and make the election results seem questionable no matter what.
Then the Democrats responded threatening this new postmaster saying he's deliberately trying to sabotage the election. The postmaster then became scared shitless because he realizes the Democrats will likely soon be in power, and announced he is reversing everything he was put in place to do. He said none of the new policy changes will take place till after the election.
I realize there is also the Republican agenda a of privatizing the Post Office, which I don't agree with and some people do. But I think reasonable people would agree that destabilizing the Post Office in these next couple months completely gives the appearance that Trump is trying to destabilize the election and give him reason to contest the results, which at least at this point looks like he will lose decidedly.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Wha conspiracy theory? That I support Trump's efforts to ensure mail in voting is accurate?
That’s not what he’s doing. He’s trying to undermine mail in voting by sowing a lack of confidence in the process and the post office. He doesn’t have any actual power to dictate how states run their voting, so what are these efforts you attribute to him?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Kryptos
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Wha conspiracy theory? That I support Trump's efforts to ensure mail in voting is accurate?
Could you please cite an example of mail in voting not being accurate, or being rife with fraud, with the exception of Republicans ratfucking NC-9 back in 2018 to steal an election?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26946361 - 09/20/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: OK maybe there's something I'm not aware of here. I thought Trump was doing the exact opposite of that.
I think that's because you're reading the mainstream news, and that's what they're hoping to get everyone to believe, so that people fight the additional security measures that Trump wants to implement.
If you look at the details in the article I posted above, it tells another story.
Now, I'm not absolutely certain which side is lying yet. But a lot of the sites I read regularly that ended up being right on a lot of things (they won't find evidence of Trump-Russia collusion, they won't find the parent troll farm Concord guilty of election interference, etc) are saying the mainstream media is working with the deep state on a coup to get Trump out.
I don't know - I'm just saying we should watch out for it.
For the record, I AM in favor of better election security after what happened to Bernie (we basically had to accept the results we were given, because verification was next to impossible).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/20/20 03:07 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26946369 - 09/20/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: Could you please cite an example of mail in voting not being accurate, or being rife with fraud, with the exception of Republicans ratfucking NC-9 back in 2018 to steal an election?
A Sampling of Recent Election Fraud Cases from Across the United States
I generally disagree with Heritage, and it's certainly possible they're lying. But it appears in this particular instance, they backed themselves up with pretty good evidence.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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You know there's a difference between "voter fraud" and "election fraud", right?
Voter fraud is when someone like you or me, individually, votes illegally. Perhaps by following the advice of POTUS.
Election fraud is when a group, such as the republicans in NC-9, coordinate a stolen election.
Of course, a quick look through the heritage foundation list shows that this is primarily election fraud in local elections. And, for some reason, 1,200 cases in the last 32 years, which include at least eight presidential elections, sixteen congressional elections, and probably around 50*50 state elections, not to mention thousands of local elections, adding up to literally billions of votes cast, does not significantly worry me.
So, how many of those were cases of "voter fraud"? Do you consider a prevalence of less than one in a million a good reason to shut down mail in voting?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26946384 - 09/20/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Now you’re just posing straight up conspiracy theories
Looks like he's gone pretty far down the rabbit hole. I took a casual glance at the front page of the UNZ review - this content looks like it belongs on stormfront. And I need to repeat for emphasis - this was all found on the front page of the website - no digging required.
Are These Antifa/BLM Riots A Jewish Coup? - written by well-known anti-Semitic white nationalist Kevin MacDonald
Quote:
It was always obvious to those of us on campus in the Vietnam years that if you fired at random into a mob of student protestors you would hit a lot of Jews
Why America Has Gone Mad - written by well-known white supremacist Jared Taylor
Quote:
It would be tempting to think this is just one more chapter in our dreary record of race riots; it isn’t. This is different. Whites are important participants and even instigators. For the first time in American history, many whites are thinking — and acting — like aggrieved blacks.
This is because millions of ordinary whites have crossed the color line and adopted the prevailing black view that whites are exclusively and personally responsible for the failures of blacks; that every white is implicated in a supremacist system that exploits blacks.
Will the Denazification Ever End? Not until the “Vernichtung” of the Whites
Quote:
Jewish sanctification is not the sole purpose behind the endless demonization of Hitler and Nazism. Another purpose is to make the anthropological bases of National Socialism unspeakable and unthinkable. Some fundamental ideas that once could be recognized as true, and even self-evident by a majority of people, are now banned from public discourse under the pretext that they are reminiscent of Nazism.
The “naziest” of these ideas is, of course, the greatness of the White race. Hitler spoke of the Aryan race, by which he meant all Germanic peoples, including the Dutch, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, Swiss, as well as the English, whose leading ethnos is primarily of Anglo-Saxon and Norman descent.
9/11 Was an Israeli Job
Quote:
9/11 was made possible by an alliance between secret worshippers of Israel and corrupted American elements. The question is: who, of the two, were the masterminds of this incredibly daring and complex operation, and for what “higher purpose”?
Another question is: why do those who keep repeating as a mantra “9/11 was an inside job” ignore totally the compelling evidence pointing to Israel? In other words, to what extent do they constitute a “controlled opposition” intended to cover up for Israel?
And finally, this article sympathetic to Holocaust denial - written by the sites editor-in-chief - that attracted thousands of comments from neo-nazis.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26946419 - 09/20/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: You know there's a difference between "voter fraud" and "election fraud", right?
Voter fraud is when someone like you or me, individually, votes illegally. Perhaps by following the advice of POTUS.
Election fraud is when a group, such as the republicans in NC-9, coordinate a stolen election.
Fine. Count me against both.
Quote:
Kryptos said: Of course, a quick look through the heritage foundation list shows that this is primarily election fraud in local elections. And, for some reason, 1,200 cases in the last 32 years, which include at least eight presidential elections, sixteen congressional elections, and probably around 50*50 state elections, not to mention thousands of local elections, adding up to literally billions of votes cast, does not significantly worry me.
So, how many of those were cases of "voter fraud"? Do you consider a prevalence of less than one in a million a good reason to shut down mail in voting?
I don't want to shut down mail in voting dude. I think it should be more verifiably accurate.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26946626 - 09/20/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't want to shut down mail in voting dude. I think it should be more verifiably accurate.
What is more verifiably accurate: a bunch of paper ballots with unique identification numbers mailed to voters, or an exclusively electronic voting machine patented by Ivanka Trump that has no paper trail whatsoever, and that is legally protected against stress testing by security researchers?
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
koods said: Now you’re just posing straight up conspiracy theories
Looks like he's gone pretty far down the rabbit hole. I took a casual glance at the front page of the UNZ review - this content looks like it belongs on stormfront. And I need to repeat for emphasis - this was all found on the front page of the website - no digging required.
Are These Antifa/BLM Riots A Jewish Coup? - written by well-known anti-Semitic white nationalist Kevin MacDonald
Quote:
It was always obvious to those of us on campus in the Vietnam years that if you fired at random into a mob of student protestors you would hit a lot of Jews
Why America Has Gone Mad - written by well-known white supremacist Jared Taylor
Quote:
It would be tempting to think this is just one more chapter in our dreary record of race riots; it isn’t. This is different. Whites are important participants and even instigators. For the first time in American history, many whites are thinking — and acting — like aggrieved blacks.
This is because millions of ordinary whites have crossed the color line and adopted the prevailing black view that whites are exclusively and personally responsible for the failures of blacks; that every white is implicated in a supremacist system that exploits blacks.
Will the Denazification Ever End? Not until the “Vernichtung” of the Whites
Quote:
Jewish sanctification is not the sole purpose behind the endless demonization of Hitler and Nazism. Another purpose is to make the anthropological bases of National Socialism unspeakable and unthinkable. Some fundamental ideas that once could be recognized as true, and even self-evident by a majority of people, are now banned from public discourse under the pretext that they are reminiscent of Nazism.
The “naziest” of these ideas is, of course, the greatness of the White race. Hitler spoke of the Aryan race, by which he meant all Germanic peoples, including the Dutch, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, Swiss, as well as the English, whose leading ethnos is primarily of Anglo-Saxon and Norman descent.
9/11 Was an Israeli Job
Quote:
9/11 was made possible by an alliance between secret worshippers of Israel and corrupted American elements. The question is: who, of the two, were the masterminds of this incredibly daring and complex operation, and for what “higher purpose”?
Another question is: why do those who keep repeating as a mantra “9/11 was an inside job” ignore totally the compelling evidence pointing to Israel? In other words, to what extent do they constitute a “controlled opposition” intended to cover up for Israel?
And finally, this article sympathetic to Holocaust denial - written by the sites editor-in-chief - that attracted thousands of comments from neo-nazis.
Thing is, modern republicans don't see Jews as equal. This kinda digs into Revelations, but modern republicans rely on an evangelical voting block, which is expecting the oncoming rapture, complete with the second coming of Jesus. This has been a part of US foreign policy since at least Bush Sr.
Thing is, for the second coming, you need Jews to own Jerusalem. That's part of their formula. Jews own Jerusalem, then they get attacked by Muslims, and wiped out. The pro-Israel stance has nothing to do with being in favor of a Jewish homeland. Evangelicals don't give a fuck about Jews, and within Evangelical end times, the Jews are massacred for not being true Christians. They need a sacrificial lamb. That's why Evangelical support for Judaism is, at best, using Jews as a meat shield. It's all part of the plan.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: You know there's a difference between "voter fraud" and "election fraud", right?
Voter fraud is when someone like you or me, individually, votes illegally. Perhaps by following the advice of POTUS.
Election fraud is when a group, such as the republicans in NC-9, coordinate a stolen election.
Fine. Count me against both.
Quote:
Kryptos said: Of course, a quick look through the heritage foundation list shows that this is primarily election fraud in local elections. And, for some reason, 1,200 cases in the last 32 years, which include at least eight presidential elections, sixteen congressional elections, and probably around 50*50 state elections, not to mention thousands of local elections, adding up to literally billions of votes cast, does not significantly worry me.
So, how many of those were cases of "voter fraud"? Do you consider a prevalence of less than one in a million a good reason to shut down mail in voting?
I don't want to shut down mail in voting dude. I think it should be more verifiably accurate.
What’s the problem with it that needs to be solved and how can trump do anything about it since states run elections.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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meltdowner
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods] 1
#26946902 - 09/20/20 09:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Imagine thinking Bannon would risk it all over a million dollars. The guy was already loaded. This is political headhunting plain and simple. Disgusting.
I hope Trump toss hilldog in Prison after his win. Round up all those traitors.
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26946953 - 09/20/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: I took a casual glance at the front page of the UNZ review - this content looks like it belongs on stormfront. - this was all found on the front page of the website - no digging required...
As Vahn said, you should attack the content of the article in question, not other unrelated articles. I could use your approach to discredit anything from the New York Times to the Washington Post.
But if you don't like Unz, I gave you another site that say the same:
Paul Craig Roberts: The United States & Its Constitution Have Two Months Left
The question you have to ask yourself is, do you want more election transparency, or are you cool with whatever results you are handed?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Paul Craig Roberts is what some might call a "holocaust denier".
He is also a big advocate of supply side economics, which is what some call "trickle down economics".
No shit he would support the most trickle down, holocaust denying, president in modern history, through thick and thin.
I find his idea that the CIA is in favor of "left politics" to be laughable, at best.
EDIT: I don't know, but personally, you invoking active holocaust deniers and trickle down supporters really doesn't help your claim of not being a conspiracy theorist. I realize that the Overton window has shifted to the point where holocaust deniers are now mainstream, and trickle down, otherwise known as "horse and sparrow" (because the sparrow gets to eat the horse shit) economics are suddenly in vogue, but...Yeah, that's what the Qcumbers believe. Serious question: Are you a Qcumber?
Edited by Kryptos (09/20/20 10:05 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26946970 - 09/20/20 10:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't want to shut down mail in voting dude. I think it should be more verifiably accurate.
What is more verifiably accurate: a bunch of paper ballots with unique identification numbers mailed to voters, or an exclusively electronic voting machine patented by Ivanka Trump that has no paper trail whatsoever
Can you show evidence that anyone would use Ivanka's voting machines in the US?
Here's an article explaining problems with the existing system. Again, I'm not against mail in voting, I just want it to be accurate.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26946981 - 09/20/20 10:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh, I see. Your concern is about the voting infrastructure counting votes, but you supported President Trump's idea that people should double vote, to test that same infrastructure no that long ago.
Quote:
Kryptos said: Paul Craig Roberts is what some might call a "holocaust denier".
He is also a big advocate of supply side economics, which is what some call "trickle down economics".
No shit he would support the most trickle down, holocaust denying, president in modern history, through thick and thin.
I find his idea that the CIA is in favor of "left politics" to be laughable, at best.
EDIT: I don't know, but personally, you invoking active holocaust deniers and trickle down supporters really doesn't help your claim of not being a conspiracy theorist. I realize that the Overton window has shifted to the point where holocaust deniers are now mainstream, and trickle down, otherwise known as "horse and sparrow" (because the sparrow gets to eat the horse shit) economics are suddenly in vogue, but...Yeah, that's what the Qcumbers believe. Serious question: Are you a Qcumber?
Please answer the question.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26946989 - 09/20/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: Paul Craig Roberts is what some might call a "holocaust denier".
Source, or make believe? He's against countries that imprison people who deny the holocaust, including those who believe the official number is 4 million rather than 6 million.
Quote:
Kryptos said: He is also a big advocate of supply side economics, which is what some call "trickle down economics".
If true, what does this have to with voter fraud?
Quote:
Kryptos said: EDIT: I don't know, but personally, you invoking active holocaust deniers and trickle down supporters really doesn't help your claim of not being a conspiracy theorist.
You make believing he's a holocaust denier doesn't help your claim.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26946993 - 09/20/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: Oh, I see. Your concern is about the voting infrastructure counting votes, but you supported President Trump's idea that people should double vote, to test that same infrastructure no that long ago.
I supported that people should double vote? Source, or make believe?
Jesus dude, you're going full koods on us.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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I understand that you might have some trouble with reading wikipedia articles, they do get complex, I know, but in the introduction for his wikipedia article, we get an interesting point that he agrees with David Irwing, the famous holocaust denier, as to the causes of WWII and the holocaust.
You never answered the question. Are you a Qcumber?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26947014 - 09/20/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: I understand that you might have some trouble with reading wikipedia articles, they do get complex, I know, but in the introduction for his wikipedia article, we get an interesting point that he agrees with David Irwing, the famous holocaust denier, as to the causes of WWII and the holocaust.
Did you even link to the Wikipedia article that you're accusing me of not reading? I linked to Paul Craig Roberts own take on holocaust denial.
Quote:
Kryptos said: You never answered the question. Are you a Qcumber?
I don't know what that is.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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I'm doing my best to figure out what the voting situation is, though many people here can't seem to get past "whatever my side tells me to believe, is what I'm going to believe, I'm not going to look into it".
It turns out Trump DOES support mail in voting for all who request it. What's new/different this time around is that Democrats want to give everyone a mail in ballot whether they request it or not. And we know how inaccurate the voter rolls are.
So I believe Trump may have a valid concern.
New Local Election Ordered in N.J. After Mail-In Voter Fraud Charges The New York Times Aug. 19, 2020
Quote:
In the days before New Jersey’s third-largest city held municipal elections in May entirely by mail, postal workers became suspicious when they found hundreds of ballots bundled together.
On Wednesday, a New Jersey judge ruled that the election in Paterson, N.J., had been irreversibly tainted and ordered a new vote to be held in November to settle the race for the City Council seat.
Mr. Trump’s campaign cited the Paterson corruption case as a reason not to expand voting by mail. “By ordering universal vote-by-mail, he has created a recipe for disaster”
...more than 3,000 ballots that were thrown out to make the case that mail-in voting makes it too easy to manipulate elections by allowing ineligible voters, including the dead, to vote.
Rick Hasen, an election law professor at the University of California, Irvine, School of Law, said the problems in Paterson illustrate the challenges of mass rollouts of mail-in voting and the need for anti-fraud mechanisms like ballot tracking, which allows voters to follow their ballots through the postal system.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Nonagon Infinity
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: You never answered the question. Are you a Qcumber?
I don't know what that is.
A Qcumber (I assume) is a proponent of QAnon, which is a far-right conspiracy theory that has its origins on 4Chan (an anonymous message board, which is where the "Anon" part comes from). It's a pretty complex theory, but the main idea behind it is that celebrities in Hollywood (especially Ellen Degeneres, Tom Hanks, and Johnny Depp) and many members of the American government (especially the Clintons and other democrats) are running a massive, covert child-trafficking operation (PizzaGate was allegedly one piece of evidence of such a ring, if you remember that. The whole Epstein situation was another). Another thing QAnon proponents tend to believe is that Donald Trump is the only person who can save America's children from this evil operation.
There are a lot of other things "QCumbers" tend to believe, but that's the general gist of it.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Thanks. 
No, I'm not a Qcumber.
Edit: And to Kryptos' accusation, I also don't believe that anyone who supports the rights of holocaust deniers to speak up is necessarily a holocaust denier.
What Paul Craig Roberts did say, according to Wikipedia, was that "No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews... The death camps were in fact work camps. Auschwitz, for example, today a Holocaust museum, was the site of Germany's essential artificial rubber factory. Germany was desperate for a work force."
This doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and I don't see how it make him a holocaust denier. He's not denying what happened, he's adding information.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/21/20 11:55 AM)
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koods
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Lol
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birdeatingspider
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
koods said: Lol
Quote:
birdeatingspider said:

Can either of you write a logical rebuttal, or is ridicule the best you can do?
I guess I'll have to get on board with your debating styles: "You two are big fat poo poo heads!"
Better?
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Nonagon Infinity
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: What Paul Craig Roberts did say, according to Wikipedia, was that "No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews... The death camps were in fact work camps. Auschwitz, for example, today a Holocaust museum, was the site of Germany's essential artificial rubber factory. Germany was desperate for a work force."
This doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and I don't see how it make him a holocaust denier. He's not denying what happened, he's adding information.
Dude, Paul Craig Roberts is a Holocaust denier. There is no question about it.
First of all, he wrote this article called "The Lies About World War II". In the article, he spends a lot of time defending the work of David Irving, who is a well known Holocaust denier. Irving's biggest claim is that Hitler and other higher-up Nazis were unaware of The Final Solution, the project to exterminate the Jews (or, at the very least, that they would have condemned it if they were aware of it). This is not just a one-off thing that Irving said, either. This is a thesis he has repeatedly tried to put forward across multiple books and papers. Due to his blatant Holocaust denial and historical misrepresentation, Irving has been refused permission to publish his work in academia (rightfully so, I think). Paul Craig Roberts seems to believe that this turns Irving into a whistleblower, who is telling you the "truth" about the Holocaust that "they" don't want you to hear (and by "they", he means Jews and the state of Israel).
I quote from the article:
Quote:
Despite many such accolades, today Irving is demonized and has to publish his own books.
I will avoid the story of how this came to be, but, yes, you guessed it, it was the Zionists. You simply cannot say anything that alters their propagandistic picture of history.
I think that's pretty damnatory evidence. Paul Craig Roberts is highly sympathetic to the work of David Irving, especially when it comes to pinning the blame for the atrocities of WWII onto Winston Churchill and absolving Hitler from all blame. If that doesn't make Paul Craig Roberts a Holocaust denier, I don't know what does.
Another point I'd like to make regarding Holocaust denial: Holocaust denial can present itself in many different forms. The most obvious one is flat-out denying that any Jews (and Roma, and disabled people, and political enemies) were exterminated by the Nazis. However, you don't have to hold that exact opinion to be considered a Holocaust denier. For example, many Holocaust deniers believe that the Nazis did try to exterminate the Jews, but that 6 million is an exaggeration (despite massive bodies of historical evidence demonstrating that 6 million is a pretty accurate number). Others will claim that, indeed, 6 million were killed, but that the camps weren't as bad as the history books tell us (some bigots love to point out that there was a swimming pool at Auschwitz as though we're supposed to treat this as evidence that there weren't gas chambers there). Others will claim that, indeed, 6 million were killed, but that the Nazis were blameless (this is the camp that David Irving and Paul Craig Roberts fall under).
You don't need to look at the particular details of anyone's WWII conspiracy theory to recognize it as Holocaust denial. You need to look at the message behind it, and the bigger picture of the world that Holocaust deniers are trying to portray. The unifying factor in all of the examples I gave in the previous paragraph is that the Nazis are exempt of guilt (or, at least, are presented as no more guilty than anyone else). The goal is to shield the Nazis from criticism, whether you're denying that they killed anyone at all, or claiming that they did kill people, but that it was really Churchill's fault instead of Hitler's, and that they were just obeying orders.
Besides, the quote that you gave is far from reasonable:
Quote:
No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews...
Do you really buy that? What reason would anyone have to argue in favor of this point unless they were trying to absolve the Nazis from guilt?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: ...the quote that you gave is far from reasonable:
Quote:
No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews...
Do you really buy that? What reason would anyone have to argue in favor of this point unless they were trying to absolve the Nazis from guilt?
I don't know if it's true or not. 
All you have to do now is find that "German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews" and then you'll have proven your point.
If you can't find it, Paul Craig Roberts has proven his.
I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
Regardless, it doesn't even matter to the point above.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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birdeatingspider
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"No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews..."
This doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and I don't see how it make him a holocaust denier. He's not denying what happened, he's adding information.
When the post says it all, there's no input. It made me lol.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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So can you help Nonagon Infinity find these plans to prove Paul Craig Roberts wrong?
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birdeatingspider
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Maybe after I pick my peppers
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Wikipedia has a lot of excuses why you might not find it:
"...as Germany's defeat became imminent and the Nazi leaders realized they would most likely be captured and brought to trial, great effort was made to destroy all evidence of mass extermination."
Again, even if these documents don't exist, that doesn't mean the holocaust didn't happen. It just means Paul Craig Roberts was correct in that they haven't been found.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: Lol
Quote:
birdeatingspider said:

Can either of you write a logical rebuttal, or is ridicule the best you can do?
I guess I'll have to get on board with your debating styles: "You two are big fat poo poo heads!"
Better?
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Nonagon Infinity
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know if it's true or not. 
Then I take it you haven't read much of the literature surrounding WWII history.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: All you have to do now is find that "German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews" and then you'll have proven your point.
I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe". The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable. Though, as Kryptos pointed out, Holocaust denial is becoming more and more mainstream these days (unfortunately, especially for Jews like me). Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate. When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you can't find it, Paul Craig Roberts has proven his.
Absolutely not.
Paul Craig Roberts is making the claim that Hitler, Himmler, and other higher-up Nazis were unaware of any plan to exterminate the Jews. This is an absurd claim, and there is no evidence to support this idea whatsoever. The fact that there was no paper document describing the details of The Final Solution does not mean that we get to fill in the cracks in history with whatever narrative we like, yet that is exactly what Irving and Roberts are doing. The fact of the matter is that the Final Solution happened anyway, with or without a paper document, and it was primarily executed by the members of Hitler's Regime, in death camps controlled by the Nazis.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Regardless, it doesn't even matter to the point above.
If you don't want to discuss the matter anymore, then that's fine, but Paul Craig Roberts is a Holocaust denier. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation. He's a Holocaust denier.
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birdeatingspider
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know if it's true or not. 
Then I take it you haven't read much of the literature surrounding WWII history.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: All you have to do now is find that "German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews" and then you'll have proven your point.
I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe". The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable. Though, as Kryptos pointed out, Holocaust denial is becoming more and more mainstream these days (unfortunately, especially for Jews like me). Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate. When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you can't find it, Paul Craig Roberts has proven his.
Absolutely not.
Paul Craig Roberts is making the claim that Hitler, Himmler, and other higher-up Nazis were unaware of any plan to exterminate the Jews. This is an absurd claim, and there is no evidence to support this idea whatsoever. The fact that there was no paper document describing the details of The Final Solution does not mean that we get to fill in the cracks in history with whatever narrative we like, yet that is exactly what Irving and Roberts are doing. The fact of the matter is that the Final Solution happened anyway, with or without a paper document, and it was primarily executed by the members of Hitler's Regime, in death camps controlled by the Nazis.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Regardless, it doesn't even matter to the point above.
If you don't want to discuss the matter anymore, then that's fine, but Paul Craig Roberts is a Holocaust denier. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation. He's a Holocaust denier.
Some other fast facts:
Quote:
He has expressed his opposition to Affirmative Action policies and dismissed the existence of white male privilege.[33] In an opinion column for Scripps Howard News Service in 1997, Roberts opposed gender integration aboard U.S. Navy vessels, opining that gender integration would destroy the "ethos of comradeship" which, in his view, motivated wartime sacrifice more than "abstract concepts such as honor and country".
Also, it appears Paul Craig Roberts is funded by Ron Unz- A white supremacists who runs the 'The Unz Selection,' a self proclaimed 'An alternative media selection.' They strive to be antisemitic and anti-Israel.
Quote:
According to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) in 2014, the webzine is an "outlet for certain writers to attack Israel and Jews".[22] It has also been described as "an alternative conservative website",[30] and "a mix of far-right and far-left anti-Semitic crackpottery".[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz#The_Unz_Review_and_other_activities And they believe Mossad was involved with the Kennedy brothers' deaths.
5 mins, I'm done. I like the term 'crackpottery-' That's as long as I'll spend on it.
Just to reinforce what Nonagon asked- Is this really what you'd like to be associated with, Fal?
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koods
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Those Jews weren’t poisoned. They just had uncontrolled diabetes.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know if it's true or not. 
Then I take it you haven't read much of the literature surrounding WWII history.
I haven't seen any actual literature documenting organized holocaust, no. I'm NOT saying it didn't happen, I'm saying if it exists you would easily be able to find it.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: All you have to do now is find that "German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews" and then you'll have proven your point.
I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe".
So you don't have it? That's all you had to say, you didn't need a whole paragraph belittling me for asking about it.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable.
Who made that claim? I didn't present it, nor did Paul Craig Roberts in the Wikipedia quote I provided.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate.
Because I ask for evidence that you can't/won't provide? I find the opposite true, actually. 
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
No, I definitely never said the holocaust wasn't real, and I don't know if Paul Craig Roberts did. If the evidence is missing, why can't we just agree Wikipedia was right that the Germans did a good job of destroying it? Why do we have to make believe I don't like debate because some evidence is missing?
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you can't find it, Paul Craig Roberts has proven his.
Absolutely not.
The fact that there was no paper document describing the details of The Final Solution does not mean that we get to fill in the cracks in history with whatever narrative we like, yet that is exactly what Irving and Roberts are doing.
At least you're now admitting Paul Craig Roberts was right. Is he "filling in the cracks", or or you doing that for him? I didn't see him say the holocaust is fake.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
I guess that's one of the oddest ways I've ever been told I'm right about something, but ok.
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Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Regardless, it doesn't even matter to the point above.
If you don't want to discuss the matter anymore, then that's fine, but Paul Craig Roberts is a Holocaust denier. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation. He's a Holocaust denier.
Can you provide a quote of something to back that up, or are you the one "filling in the blanks"? I haven't seen him say that, and I'm certainly not saying that.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Back to the voting topic, I don't think anyone's replied to this post:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm doing my best to figure out what the voting situation is, though many people here can't seem to get past "whatever my side tells me to believe, is what I'm going to believe, I'm not going to look into it".
It turns out Trump DOES support mail in voting for all who request it. What's new/different this time around is that Democrats want to give everyone a mail in ballot whether they request it or not. And we know how inaccurate the voter rolls are.
So I believe Trump may have a valid concern.
New Local Election Ordered in N.J. After Mail-In Voter Fraud Charges The New York Times Aug. 19, 2020
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In the days before New Jersey’s third-largest city held municipal elections in May entirely by mail, postal workers became suspicious when they found hundreds of ballots bundled together.
On Wednesday, a New Jersey judge ruled that the election in Paterson, N.J., had been irreversibly tainted and ordered a new vote to be held in November to settle the race for the City Council seat.
Mr. Trump’s campaign cited the Paterson corruption case as a reason not to expand voting by mail. “By ordering universal vote-by-mail, he has created a recipe for disaster”
...more than 3,000 ballots that were thrown out to make the case that mail-in voting makes it too easy to manipulate elections by allowing ineligible voters, including the dead, to vote.
Rick Hasen, an election law professor at the University of California, Irvine, School of Law, said the problems in Paterson illustrate the challenges of mass rollouts of mail-in voting and the need for anti-fraud mechanisms like ballot tracking, which allows voters to follow their ballots through the postal system.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,988
Loc: so many roads
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In Canada and Europe a researcher who challenges the official Holocaust story can be imprisoned regardless of the objectivity of his research. The question should be: is he right or wrong, not has he violated a taboo lobbied into law. Even research that reports massacres of Jews can put a researcher in prison if he doesn’t support the official number of exterminated Jews and official means of extermination. If a researcher finds that two million Jews were machinegunned into open trenches but there were no gas chambers, he is toast if he publishes his findings.
(See what he did there?)
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As America and the Western World have many lies among their foundations and historical development, indoctrinated people are hostile to truth that disproves the lies that are the foundation of their belief system. Peoples, such as Americans, Canadians, and Europeans, who are accustomed to a diet of lies, are naturally hostile to the truth.
(Then here?)
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I suppose we gentile whites, if we had any pride, should regard these labels as badges of honor. We should respond to these labels applied by the Israel Lobby with the statement that yes, “we are all anti-semites” as long as you oppress the Palestinians, cause wars, interfere in our elections, purchase special interest laws that protect you from criticism and boycotts, and slander those of us who tell the truth.
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If the demonization of Jews led to the Holocaust, what will the demonization of White People lead to? Unlike feisty Jews, mentally and emotionally weak white gentiles, overwhelmed with a false sense of guilt, seem willing to accept their extermination.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/02/13/white-people-are-being-erased/
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 2,988
Loc: so many roads
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What was the Holocaust? According to zionists, the Holocaust was National Socialist Germany’s elimination of 6 million Jews by first gassing them and then cremating the bodies. It is unclear how Germany managed this feat when all of its limited and dwindling resources were employed, unsuccessfully as it turns out, on the Russian front.
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"We know very little about the Holocaust, because no one is allowed to study it."
(What?!) https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/05/03/morality-truth-facts-exited-dying-west/
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I haven't seen any actual literature documenting organized holocaust, no. I'm NOT saying it didn't happen, I'm saying if it exists you would easily be able to find it.
Read any of the books published by Otto Frank (the only member of the Frank family who managed to survive the Holocaust), especially his publication of his daughter's diary, called Diary of a Young Girl. His books give first-hand accounts of what it was like to live as a Jew in Nazi Germany, and he is not the only survivor who gave an account of his survival. These accounts are evidence that the Nazis were responsible for the extermination of Jews (also known as The Final Solution). Are you saying that this, among other first-hand accounts of survivors and even the testimonies of Ally soldiers who freed Jews from the death camps at the end of the war, is not enough evidence to hold the Nazis responsible for the atrocities? Are you really saying that we need an explicit plan signed by Hitler himself to prove their guilt?
Another side point, since you're unfamiliar with the literature of this event: the word "Holocaust" is actually a bit problematic. The word comes from a Greek word that roughly translates to "burnt offering", which is a bit of an insult to the Jews that were murdered, as it implies that this was all some sort of sacrifice for a greater good. The preferred term for many Jews is "Shoah", which is the Hebrew word for catastrophe, which is an excellent way to describe what happened in Germany and Poland during the late thirties. I know that's kind of an aside, but what the hell. I'll still use the word Holocaust because that's the one that everyone recognizes.
I am not accusing you of saying that the Holocaust didn't happen. However, I have already made the point that you don't have to deny that six million Jews were killed in order to be considered a Holocaust denier. Holocaust denial takes many forms, but they all serve a common purpose: absolving the Nazis (especially Hitler) from guilt. Demanding a paper document detailing plans for the extermination of Jews as evidence of Hitler's guilt is a defense of Nazi innocence. It is a form of Holocaust denial, and it is exactly the behavior that Paul Craig Roberts is engaged in.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe".
So you don't have it? That's all you had to say, you didn't need a whole paragraph belittling me for asking about it.
This is a defense tactic I've seen from you on other threads: accusing people who challenge your outrageous positions of "attacking" you (in this case, "belittling" you). I'm not belittling you here. I'm telling you that your defense of Paul Craig Roberts is unjustifiable. That's not a personal attack on you, it's an attack on the position you're holding. Roberts is clearly a Holocaust denier, and I find it kind of ironic that you would defend someone who holds such an absurd position if you're really so concerned with the truth.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable.
Who made that claim? I didn't present it, nor did Paul Craig Roberts in the Wikipedia quote I provided.
David Irving made that claim, and Paul Craig Roberts supported it without any criticism in his article that I linked in my last comment. Roberts might not have said it himself, but he agreed with it.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate.
Because I ask for evidence that you can't/won't provide? I find the opposite true, actually. 
The demand of such evidence is a form of Holocaust denial, though. It's literally an attempt to defend the Nazis.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
No, I definitely never said the holocaust wasn't real, and I don't know if Paul Craig Roberts did. If the evidence is missing, why can't we just agree Wikipedia was right that the Germans did a good job of destroying it? Why do we have to make believe I don't like debate because some evidence is missing?
That is not how this conversation went down, though. I never accused you of believing the Holocaust wasn't real (I've already made it quite clear multiple times that this is not the only form of Holocaust denial). I jumped in the discussion when you said that Paul Craig Roberts' claims were "pretty reasonable", and I responded by saying that he is a Holocaust denier. I explained in great detail about why he was a Holocaust denier, and how his actions are all directed towards painting the Nazis in a blameless light. Now, all of a sudden, you're talking about whether or not there exists a paper document detailing the Final Solution (even though I've already explained that the demand for such a document is a form of Holocaust denial).
You are shifting the goalposts away from the discussion of whether or not Roberts is a Holocaust denier, which is why I confronted you in the first place. That is why I believe you're not interested in debate. Your defense of Roberts makes me sincerely wonder if you have some controversial opinion about the Holocaust that you're trying to obfuscate. However, I think the more likely scenario is that you don't actually hold any problematic views surrounding the Holocaust. No, what's really happening here is that you put forward a clear defense of Paul Craig Roberts, other people called you out and said that Roberts is a Holocaust denier, and now you're trying to muddy the waters of the conversation and make it look like you were really just concerned about whether or not a paper document detailing the Final Solution actually existed, which is a much more reasonable position than outright defending a Holocaust denier. That way, you're hoping that people will just drop it and that you'll look like you were the reasonable one all along (or that you were "right" or whatever). It's all directed towards obfuscating a controversial position you put forward (namely, that Roberts was "being reasonable"), and that's why I think you aren't interested in debate. You're much more concerned with your reputation than you are with discourse, which is why you frequently respond to criticism or polite correction by claiming it was a personal attack (or "belittlement" or whatever). It's all about ego, and it's kind of a waste of time for other forum users like myself who want to engage in real discussion about political issues. I know I'm not alone in that regard: this is a pattern. Someone confronts you about this shit on almost every thread you participate in. It's not a coincidence.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
I guess that's one of the oddest ways I've ever been told I'm right about something, but ok.
I rest my case.
You know what, Falcon, if that's what you need to tell yourself, then I guess that works for me. If this is really all just about who's right and who's wrong, then I concede to you: you're right. Congratulations, man.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Kryptos
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Are you really saying that we need an explicit plan signed by Hitler himself to prove their guilt?
Based on Falcon's previous arguments, this is exactly what he wants. He needs a document, signed by Hitler, notarized, and the signing ceremony photographed. Without that, he will not accept any accusations of guilt against Hitler.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Dude, Hitler publicly promised the complete annihilation of the jews. After that, millions were killed by people under his command.
Coincidence? I think not.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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I think the holocaust happened and I think there's PLENTY of evidence that to prove that it did, but I'm also saying that Paul Craig Roberts may have been correct in saying that they never found the German plans. You seem to have agreed with that, yet you still want to call him a denier. Maybe you've seen other things from Paul Craig Roberts that I haven't seen, but I don't think that statement makes him a denier, especially since I think you agreed with it.
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Nonagon Infinity said: The demand of such evidence is a form of Holocaust denial, though. It's literally an attempt to defend the Nazis.
Nobody's "demanding" (your word) such evidence, they're simply pointing out that this hasn't been found.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26948286 - 09/21/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Kryptos said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: Are you really saying that we need an explicit plan signed by Hitler himself to prove their guilt?
Based on Falcon's previous arguments, this is exactly what he wants. He needs a document, signed by Hitler, notarized, and the signing ceremony photographed. Without that, he will not accept any accusations of guilt against Hitler.
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Enlil said: Dude, Hitler publicly promised the complete annihilation of the jews. After that, millions were killed by people under his command.
Coincidence? I think not.
HOLY MAKE BELIEVE dudes! Nonagon's got everyone thinking I don't believe in the holocaust. Can I get a mod to please ask people to stop with all the make believe? I spend almost all my time correcting such people here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Back to the voting topic, I don't think anyone's replied to this post:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm doing my best to figure out what the voting situation is, though many people here can't seem to get past "whatever my side tells me to believe, is what I'm going to believe, I'm not going to look into it".
It turns out Trump DOES support mail in voting for all who request it. What's new/different this time around is that Democrats want to give everyone a mail in ballot whether they request it or not. And we know how inaccurate the voter rolls are.
So I believe Trump may have a valid concern.
New Local Election Ordered in N.J. After Mail-In Voter Fraud Charges The New York Times Aug. 19, 2020
Quote:
In the days before New Jersey’s third-largest city held municipal elections in May entirely by mail, postal workers became suspicious when they found hundreds of ballots bundled together.
On Wednesday, a New Jersey judge ruled that the election in Paterson, N.J., had been irreversibly tainted and ordered a new vote to be held in November to settle the race for the City Council seat.
Mr. Trump’s campaign cited the Paterson corruption case as a reason not to expand voting by mail. “By ordering universal vote-by-mail, he has created a recipe for disaster”
...more than 3,000 ballots that were thrown out to make the case that mail-in voting makes it too easy to manipulate elections by allowing ineligible voters, including the dead, to vote.
Rick Hasen, an election law professor at the University of California, Irvine, School of Law, said the problems in Paterson illustrate the challenges of mass rollouts of mail-in voting and the need for anti-fraud mechanisms like ballot tracking, which allows voters to follow their ballots through the postal system.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Mycolorado
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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What did I make believe? What is false in my post?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26948428 - 09/21/20 07:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree with your post, but I'm not sure why you directed it at me. Kryptos' post was clearly make believe though.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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It's a shame no one wants to talk about the real issue. The fact that Trump DOES support mail in voting for ALL who request it, but that he's concerned about Democrats wanting to send mail-in ballots to everyone whether they request it or not. Since this is something relatively new, perhaps he has some valid concerns. Thoughts?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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It's not new, it's been done before, it works, Trump's concerns are stupid.
Go make believe somewhere else. Or, as always, move the goalposts.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26948452 - 09/21/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Kryptos said: It's not new, it's been done before, it works, Trump's concerns are stupid.
You mean like in New Jersey?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kwyjibo
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You mean like in New Jersey? 
Looks like they caught it and addressed the issue. What's the problem?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26948539 - 09/21/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You mean they caught it, and cancelled the election. Perhaps that's not a problem if it's only the President of the United States?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26948540 - 09/21/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is anyone really surprised Falcon is now defending Hitler? Defending authoritarians is kinda his groove.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26948544 - 09/21/20 09:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Source, or make believe? Where have I defended Hitler? Please include a link.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kwyjibo
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You mean they caught it, and cancelled the election.
The point is, they caught it.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,496
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Where have I defended Hitler? Please include a link.
You defended someone who has defended Hitler, and your defense was specific to that person's right to defend Hitler. Did you directly defend Hitler? Maybe not. Still, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26948558 - 09/21/20 09:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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My point is, the whole election had to be redone three months later. And we still don't know how that one will turn out.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26948560 - 09/21/20 10:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You defended someone who has defended Hitler, and your defense was specific to that person's right to defend Hitler.
Paul Craig Roberts said "No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews..."
That's not defending Hitler, it's just stating an observation.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,496
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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That's not all he said, though. He's said much more than that. He has repeatedly denied the existence of gas chambers. Denied the systematic murder of jews. Denied a ton of well-established holocaust facts. Further, he has, on many occasions, painted Hitler as the victim in WWII. Defending Hitler has occupied a fair percentage of Mr. Roberts' work product. You linked an article where he is lamenting the fact that he can't speak his bullshit in some countries.
Now, I'll be the first to say that freedom of speech is, and should be, an extremely high value in a society. I would, in fact, fight to ensure that Mr. Roberts has a right to speak his opinion. He is, however, still human garbage who has dedicated a lot of time to defending Hitler, and you've dedicated a bit of time in this thread to defending him and his credibility. Whether that's out of ignorance, political alignment, or some other misguided reason, it still reflects on your judgment and ultimately, your own credibility.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Kwyjibo
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: My point is, the whole election had to be redone three months later. And we still don't know how that one will turn out.
Just because it wasn't immediately caught doesn't negate the fact that it was caught. The system worked.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26948601 - 09/21/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dude, I don't have a degree in Paul Craig Roberts history. All I was arguing is what I was told to read in Wikipedia, which I posted here.
The main discussion in this thread is about the upcoming elections, and the fact that so few people, including yourself, want to comment on whether better election security is a good thing or not.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26948603 - 09/21/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kwyjibo said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: My point is, the whole election had to be redone three months later. And we still don't know how that one will turn out.
Just because it wasn't immediately caught doesn't negate the fact that it was caught. The system worked.
It didn't work, New Jersey still hasn't elected new leaders. This would be disastrous for a Presidential election.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kwyjibo
Stranger

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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It didn't work, New Jersey still hasn't elected new leaders. This would be disastrous for a Presidential election.
The vote has been rescheduled. Ideally things would happen faster but investigations take time and it seems to me it's better to thoroughly investigate things rather than rush it. Either way, it's being addressed. Voter fraud happens, nobody here is arguing in favor of it or against election security and it isn't exclusive to mail in voting.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kwyjibo] 1
#26948626 - 09/21/20 11:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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It seems to me better to prevent this from happening in the first place. People here are surprisingly quiet about Trumps wishes for better election security.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kwyjibo
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Nobody is in favor of it not being right the first time. I'm sorry not everyone is patting Trump on his back like you would like them to but given his record of not giving a shit about anything or anyone but himself it's understandable for people to be skeptical of his motives.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Holocaust denial takes many forms, but they all serve a common purpose: absolving the Nazis (especially Hitler) from guilt.
To know people's psychological motivations is an incredible skill. Or is that just an assumption?
In the current environment of outrage theater, fake hate has proliferated. Fake hate is something many are reluctant to discuss - because it takes away from one's ability to engage in the fun drama of outrage. If I am a lonely miserable person who has no meaning in my life, am I going to paint Nazi swastikas on a grammar school or a Jewish synagogue? Miserable people often engage in fake hate because it's a very effective way to get the big outrage reaction. It's trolling. And your work gets featured on the TV news as "hate crime investigation" . . .
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26948718 - 09/22/20 01:05 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kwyjibo said: Nobody is in favor of it not being right the first time. I'm sorry not everyone is patting Trump on his back like you would like them to but given his record of not giving a shit about anything or anyone but himself it's understandable for people to be skeptical of his motives.
No need to be sorry that Trump is in favor of it being right the first time.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26948725 - 09/22/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: To know people's psychological motivations is an incredible skill. Or is that just an assumption?
Pointing out that Holocaust denial is a defense of the Nazis requires absolutely no psychological analysis whatsoever. What purpose would Holocaust denial serve, save for the defense of the Nazis from criticism?
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: In the current environment of outrage theater, fake hate has proliferated. Fake hate is something many are reluctant to discuss - because it takes away from one's ability to engage in the fun drama of outrage. If I am a lonely miserable person who has no meaning in my life, am I going to paint Nazi swastikas on a grammar school or a Jewish synagogue? Miserable people often engage in fake hate because it's a very effective way to get the big outrage reaction. It's trolling. And your work gets featured on the TV news as "hate crime investigation" . . .
Antisemitism doesn't always have to be overtly signaled to be effective at dehumanizing Jews. The Nazi swastika is a well-known hate symbol at this point. People can't get away with signaling their antisemitism using the swastika anymore because it's too well known. The smart antisemites have abandoned the use of the swastika (at least publicly), and have switched to more covert means of antisemitism, mostly so that they can plausibly deny holding antisemitic views when they get called out. Here are some examples:
- Referring to a "globalist" conspiracy to enslave the masses ("globalist" can sometimes be a dog whistle that means "jew" to an antisemite)
- Using three parentheses around a noun to signal that the noun is a Jew (or Jewish-controlled), like this: "The (((media))) doesn't want you to know the truth."
- Denying that the Holocaust occurred, claiming that the Nazis weren't responsible or blameworthy for the Holocaust, claiming that 6 million deaths is an exaggeration, or otherwise casting doubt on history. Since Holocaust denial is now publicly known to be an antisemitic position, bigots have tried switching to other coded terminology such as "history revisionism".
- Conflating Zionism (a position about Israeli politics) with Judaism or Jewish culture, which allows antisemites to blame any political misdeeds in Israel on American Jews.
These are some of the means via which antisemitism spreads in America today. All of the above methods are covert enough that one could deny holding antisemetic positions when confronted. However, a real antisemite will see the word "globalist", or three parentheses, or the words "history revisionism", or the word "zionism", and they'll know exactly what it means. Such language signals to other antisemites that something antisemitic is being said.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Nonagon's got everyone thinking I don't believe in the holocaust.
No, Falcon. You've got everyone thinking you're a Holocaust denier. Your actions led other people to see your position for what it really is, not mine. You can't just spout Holocaust denier rhetoric and then blame me or anyone else for thinking that you're a Holocaust denier. If you don't want to be called a Holocaust denier, then you need to stop defending other Holocaust deniers for their denial, and you need to stop repeating Holocaust denier talking points. It's really that simple.
You're not a fucking victim, man. You put yourself in this situation.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Can I get a mod to please ask people to stop with all the make believe? I spend almost all my time correcting such people here.
From what I see, you spend most of your time on the forums quoting extremely questionable sources, defending Donald Trump's actions, and using dishonest rhetorical tactics like misdirection and goalpost-shifting. Then, when you get called out on your bullshit, you play victim and act like everyone is attacking you, when we're really just criticizing your arguments.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,496
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The main discussion in this thread is about the upcoming elections, and the fact that so few people, including yourself, want to comment on whether better election security is a good thing or not.
That's one way to frame the issue. Another is whether additional barriers to voting is a good thing.
"Election security" has been the excuse for many awful policies in the past: Voter ID laws, Poll taxes, etc. Typically, however, all of these "security" procedures have disproportionately impacted people of color and the poor.
So, let's look at the real issue instead of playing your stupid game. We're talking about the balance between election accuracy and election participation. The more measures to increase accuracy, the more barriers there are to participation. Which problem is a bigger problem today? Do we have a widespread election fraud issue? No. Do we have abysmal election participation rate? Yes. You and Trump seem to not want to ease the major problem because you think it might make the smaller problem somewhat worse.
I say that's irrational on your part and malicious on his. What say you?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,496
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26948921 - 09/22/20 08:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Even Paul Craig Roberts, a guy I hold a lot of respect for. . .
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Dude, I don't have a degree in Paul Craig Roberts history.
I don't know what to tell you. Before you drop a name as a source and someone you respect, it might be a good idea just to see if that person is credible and/or deserving of your respect. You certainly can't blame us for making reasonable inferences based on your declaration of respect for a known Hitler apologist.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Kwyjibo said: Nobody is in favor of it not being right the first time. I'm sorry not everyone is patting Trump on his back like you would like them to but given his record of not giving a shit about anything or anyone but himself it's understandable for people to be skeptical of his motives.
No need to be sorry that Trump is in favor of it being right the first time.
You can’t be this naive
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26949184 - 09/22/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The main discussion in this thread is about the upcoming elections, and the fact that so few people, including yourself, want to comment on whether better election security is a good thing or not.
That's one way to frame the issue. Another is whether additional barriers to voting is a good thing.
Sure, I guess asking someone to register to vote by mail is a barrier, but we've always done it that way before.
Quote:
Enlil said: "Election security" has been the excuse for many awful policies in the past: Voter ID laws, Poll taxes, etc. Typically, however, all of these "security" procedures have disproportionately impacted people of color and the poor.
I agree 100%, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about mailing ballots to everyone whether they request it or not.
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Enlil said: So, let's look at the real issue instead of playing your stupid game.
Insults? Sounds like an Enlil game to me. Yes, looking at the real issues is what I requested from the beginning.
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Enlil said: We're talking about the balance between election accuracy and election participation. The more measures to increase accuracy, the more barriers there are to participation. Which problem is a bigger problem today? Do we have a widespread election fraud issue? No. Do we have abysmal election participation rate? Yes. You and Trump seem to not want to ease the major problem because you think it might make the smaller problem somewhat worse.
I say that's irrational on your part and malicious on his. What say you?
I say we don't know how big a problem election fraud may be with everyone getting a mail in ballot, including those who didn't request one. New Jersey showed us what could happen.
I actually think that mail in voting is a great idea, and even essential during the pandemic, but I'm also not sure that sending a mail in ballot to everyone who didn't request one is the best idea. I can see the trade-off, and I think we'll learn about all the problems AFTER the election is final, unfortunately.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26949189 - 09/22/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: You can’t be this naive
Can you make a logical argument instead of an insult, or at least combine insults with logical arguments as Enlil just did?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Sure, I guess asking someone to register to vote by mail is a barrier, but we've always done it that way before.
At one point, this same logic could have been used to defend slavery, segregation, crucifixion, and any number of horrible practices. Do you have anything better than "we've always done it this way?"
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26949219 - 09/22/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Sure, I guess asking someone to register to vote by mail is a barrier, but we've always done it that way before.
At one point, this same logic could have been used to defend slavery, segregation, crucifixion, and any number of horrible practices. Do you have anything better than "we've always done it this way?"
I did, but perhaps you missed it:
New Local Election Ordered in N.J. After Mail-In Voter Fraud Charges
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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So, your problem with mailing ballots to everyone is that one time, a thousand or so ballots were thrown out because signatures didn't match? That's kinda like having a problem with blaming hitler for the holocaust because you don't have a signed order from him.
Oh wait...
No, I mean it's like having a problem with hot water in homes because a house occasionally burns down when a water heater fails.
Keep in mind, a vote not cast because of a barrier is just as much of an accuracy problem as a vote cast illegally.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Nonagon's got everyone thinking I don't believe in the holocaust.
No, Falcon. You've got everyone thinking you're a Holocaust denier. Your actions led other people to see your position for what it really is, not mine.
What I did was defend a position from Paul Craig Roberts that you seem to have agreed is true. And now I'm called a holocaust denier for that.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: From what I see, you spend most of your time on the forums quoting extremely questionable sources, defending Donald Trump's actions, and using dishonest rhetorical tactics like misdirection and goalpost-shifting.
Paul Craig Roberts has been a great source in this forum (for example, he pointed out that Trump-Russia election collusion was likely fake news). Though I really don't want to make this discussion about the holocaust, I don't even know what he's said that's turned out to be wrong.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Then, when you get called out on your bullshit, you play victim and act like everyone is attacking you, when we're really just criticizing your arguments.
Unlike others, I actual debate the points people say are "bullshit", as it usually turns out not to be the case. You called me a holocaust denier for defending a position about Paul Craig Roberts that appears to be true. That's what other might call "bullshit", but I say let's stop with the name calling and stick to the facts.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/22/20 12:35 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26949267 - 09/22/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: So, your problem with mailing ballots to everyone is that one time, a thousand or so ballots were thrown out because signatures didn't match? That's kinda like having a problem with blaming hitler for the holocaust because you don't have a signed order from him.
Oh wait...
Did I say I have a problem blaming Hitler for the holocaust because we don't have a signed paper for him, or did I say a signed paper hasn't been found? I said the latter, but you're trying to imply the former. That's not arguing in good faith.
And the issue in New Jersey was a lot more than signatures not matching. It was finding hundreds of ballots bundled together. Perhaps tricking people is how you argue in court, but I'd prefer a little more honesty here.
Quote:
Enlil said: No, I mean it's like having a problem with hot water in homes because a house occasionally burns down when a water heater fails.
Keep in mind, a vote not cast because of a barrier is just as much of an accuracy problem as a vote cast illegally.
Look, I get both sides. I just wanted to have an honest discussion about the issue, since it's clear the mainstream media got people to falsely think Trump was against all mail in voting. They trick people all the time, and people always seem to get upset when I call them out.
Can we talk about the issue now? Again, I think we'll get results that will be far more disputed than previous elections.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/22/20 12:37 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
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Sorry but I think you're going to have a difficult time convincing people to let up on holocaust denial.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Did I say I have a problem blaming Hitler for the holocaust because we don't have a signed paper for him, or did I say a signed paper hasn't been found? I said the latter, but you're trying to imply the former. That's not arguing in good faith.
Here's what you quoted and supported:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: What Paul Craig Roberts did say, according to Wikipedia, was that "No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews... The death camps were in fact work camps. Auschwitz, for example, today a Holocaust museum, was the site of Germany's essential artificial rubber factory. Germany was desperate for a work force."
This doesn't sound unreasonable to me, and I don't see how it make him a holocaust denier. He's not denying what happened, he's adding information.
No German plans for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews... The death camps were in fact work camps... This doesn't sound unreasonable to me...
Is this really the hill you want to die on?
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koods
Ribbit



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He is against mail in voting.
Quote:
Universal mail-in voting is going to be catastrophic, it's going to make our country the laughing stock of the world. The problem with the mail-in voting, number one, is you're never going to know when the election is over
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26949325 - 09/22/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: No German plans for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews...
You missed the last part: ... "have ever been found"
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: The death camps were in fact work camps...
You missed the last part: ... "Auschwitz was the site of Germany's essential artificial rubber factory. Germany was desperate for a work force."
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: "This doesn't sound unreasonable to me..."
Is this really the hill you want to die on?
You need to show that plans for an organized holocaust have been found, and I need to show that Jews were used to help the German workforce.
Does that sound about right? Should be do this "battle"?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26949329 - 09/22/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: He is against mail in voting.
He is against universal mail in voting. That's the point I'm making, as you continue to make believe.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: What I did was defend a position from Paul Craig Roberts that you seem to have agreed is true. And now I'm called a holocaust denier for that.
I did not agree with what Paul Craig Roberts said. You're acting like all he said was that there was no paper document signed by Hitler found detailing the Final Solution, which is true, but that's not the full extent of what Roberts said. If you read the article that quote was pulled from, you'll find that Roberts said that because there was no such document found, Hitler cannot be held responsible for the Holocaust. This is blatantly false, and I do not agree with it. So, to make it perfectly clear: I do not agree with the quote you pulled from Roberts.
Your insistence on defending Roberts is really troubling, Falcon. Knowing that he is a Holocaust denier and that the quote you pulled was an obvious example of Holocaust denial, I can think of just for defending Roberts as you continue to do: 1. You agree with him because you are also a Holocaust denier 2. You have a really sensitive ego, and you don't have the humility to just admit that you accidentally defended a Holocaust denier because doing so would be to admit that you made a mistake, and you just can't stand "being wrong".
I think #2 is the much more charitable position, and I think it would reflect much better on your character than #1. #2 is forgivable, but not if you insist on continuing to defend a Holocaust denier to protect your ego.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: From what I see, you spend most of your time on the forums quoting extremely questionable sources, defending Donald Trump's actions, and using dishonest rhetorical tactics like misdirection and goalpost-shifting.
Paul Craig Roberts has been a great source in this forum (for example, he pointed out that Trump-Russia election collusion was likely fake news). Though I really don't want to make this discussion about the holocaust, I don't even know what he's said that's turned out to be wrong.
Other users in this thread have given you a laundry list of quotes from Paul Craig Roberts that are blatantly false or straight up antisemitic. Do you really want to continue defending a known Holocaust denier? At this point, I can only assume that the answer is "yes," because you really seem insistent on defending this guy.
Nevertheless, here's a blatantly false quote from the article Roberts wrote that you quoted that started this whole discussion:
Quote:
The "death camps" were in fact work camps.
This is a well-known Holocaust denier talking point. Auschwitz was a massive facility consisting of many "camps". Some of these camps employed Nazi workers, who produced rubber and other goods. There was even one that had a swimming pool. However, by the end of the war, over forty of these camps were dedicated exclusively to the imprisonment and extermination of Jews, Roma, and political enemies of the Nazis. To say that the "death camps" were "in fact" work camps is a blatant lie. Auschwitz consisted of both work camps and death camps. The only reason Roberts would say something like this is to deliberately mislead people into believing the Nazis were innocent of the Holocaust. This is Roberts' narrative in the article: that historians got it all wrong about the Holocaust, and that well-known Holocaust deniers like David Irving are the ones who are really telling the truth about what happened in Nazi Germany.
The quote that you pulled from this same article, the one that you insist on continuing to defend (most likely to protect your own ego) is directed towards that same thesis. If you want me to stop thinking that you're a Holocaust denier, then you need to stop defending the work of a blatant Holocaust denier. If you didn't know any better and this was all a big misunderstanding or whatever, then that's fine, but you should know the truth about Roberts: he's a Holocaust denier, and he's been responsible for spreading misinformation about history on multiple occasions. Otherwise, I have to assume that you did understand this about Roberts and that you agree with him, and if you do, then you are also a Holocaust denier.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Then, when you get called out on your bullshit, you play victim and act like everyone is attacking you, when we're really just criticizing your arguments.
Unlike others, I actual debate the points people say are "bullshit", as it usually turns out not to be the case. You called me a holocaust denier for defending a position about Paul Craig Roberts that appears to be true. That's what other might call "bullshit", but I say let's stop with the name calling and stick to the facts.
Sure, let's stick to the facts:
- Roberts is a Holocaust denier
- The quote you pulled from the article is a prime example of Holocaust denial, and you would be able to see that if you read the entire article
- You have insisted on defending Roberts and his Holocaust denying article
Those are the facts.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: He is against mail in voting.
He is against universal mail in voting. That's the point I'm making, as you continue to make believe.
Universal mail in voting is mail in voting. He doesn’t want to give people the choice of voting by mail or voting in person. As far as can tell, he only approves of mail in voting when you have an excuse for not voting in person, aka absentee voting.
--------------------
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26949385 - 09/22/20 01:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: No German plans for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews...
You missed the last part: ... "have ever been found"
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: The death camps were in fact work camps...
You missed the last part: ... "Auschwitz was the site of Germany's essential artificial rubber factory. Germany was desperate for a work force."
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: "This doesn't sound unreasonable to me..."
Is this really the hill you want to die on?
You need to show that plans for an organized holocaust have been found, and I need to show that Jews were used to help the German workforce.
Does that sound about right? Should we do this "battle"?
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: You're acting like all he said was that there was no paper document signed by Hitler found detailing the Final Solution, which is true..."
Auschwitz was a massive facility consisting of many "camps". Some of these camps employed Nazi workers, who produced rubber and other goods.
Thank you Nonagon for making Shivas die on my hill.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Look, if anyone who questions the official narrative is a holocaust denier, then I'll agree Roberts is a holocaust denier. That's a silly definition if you ask me.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26949401 - 09/22/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Universal mail in voting is mail in voting. He doesn’t want to give people the choice of voting by mail or voting in person. As far as can tell, he only approves of mail in voting when you have an excuse for not voting in person, aka absentee voting.
Universal mail in voting is a type of mail in voting. Trump approves mail in voting for anyone who requests it.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



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Actually, voting machines at in-person polls are more likely to be hacked using malicious software- some data shows this could have already happened in the past.
https://citp.princeton.edu/our-work/voting/ https://harpers.org/archive/2012/11/how-to-rig-an-election/
Stop using NJ as an example and look to the 5 states such as WA and OR who have and always use mail in ballots.
D Trump's claims are unfounded and, like much of what he spews- transparent and ego-driven. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1249132374547464193
https://blog.ucsusa.org/michael-latner/voter-fraud-proponents-are-frauds
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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At least now we're finally having a discussion about voting.
Quote:
birdeatingspider said: Stop using NJ as an example and look to the 5 states such as WA and OR who have and always use mail in ballots.
Agreed, but how about we look at everything and not cherry pick? Again, this isn't just about mail in voting, as the media is trying to get you to believe, but about mail in voting for all, whether requested or not.
Quote:
birdeatingspider said: D Trump's claims are unfounded and, like much of what he spews- transparent and ego-driven.
We don't have too many examples of everyone getting ballots without requesting them. We'll probably learn a lot more about their reliability after the elections.
There may well be differences between mail in voting by voter request, and mail in voting for all.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: The Nazi swastika
Is actually called a hakenkreuz, or "hooked cross". Swastika is the term for the original Hindu symbol. But, for the purposes of reference, swastika is also valid. I only bring this up because of your previous etymology of "Holocaust".
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: There was even one that had a swimming pool.
You've mentioned this at least twice, but slightly out of context. Yes, the camps often had recreational facilities...for the SS officers and soldiers that ran the camps. Not for the prisoners. After all, spending days, weeks, or months at a time away from your family gassing Jews is still work, and you gotta be able to blow off a little steam by the pool with your fellow SS butchers.
Anyway. Nitpicking over. Carry on.
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Nonagon Infinity
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Kryptos]
#26949513 - 09/22/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: The Nazi swastika
Is actually called a hakenkreuz, or "hooked cross". Swastika is the term for the original Hindu symbol. But, for the purposes of reference, swastika is also valid. I only bring this up because of your previous etymology of "Holocaust".
Thanks for clarifying.
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: There was even one that had a swimming pool.
You've mentioned this at least twice, but slightly out of context. Yes, the camps often had recreational facilities...for the SS officers and soldiers that ran the camps. Not for the prisoners. After all, spending days, weeks, or months at a time away from your family gassing Jews is still work, and you gotta be able to blow off a little steam by the pool with your fellow SS butchers.
Anyway. Nitpicking over. Carry on.
I completely agree. I only mentioned the swimming pool because it's another popular Holocaust denier talking point. Your point is exactly correct: the pools were not for the prisoners. They were for the SS. Holocaust deniers like to bring up the pool because they argue that it's evidence that Auschwitz wasn't really a death camp.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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I agree with the above statement as well.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Look, if anyone who questions the official narrative is a holocaust denier, then I'll agree Roberts is a holocaust denier. That's a silly definition if you ask me.
That is not the definition of a Holocaust denier that I'm employing. I would define a Holocaust denier as anyone who casts doubt over any of the historical facts of the Holocaust with the intent of absolving the Nazis of guilt.
The specific historical facts that are being put into question are not the significant part. The significant part is the intent of absolving the Nazis of guilt. For example, someone who claims that the Holocaust is a complete fabrication, and that no one was murdered at all is obviously a Holocaust denier under this definition, but so is someone who claims that Hitler didn't know about the Final Solution and that, therefore, he was innocent.
By the definition I've provided, it is clear as day that Roberts is a Holocaust denier.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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I can agree with that definition. 
Did Roberts claim Hitler didn't know? If so, I missed that statement, and I apologize.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: You're acting like all he said was that there was no paper document signed by Hitler found detailing the Final Solution, which is true..."
Auschwitz was a massive facility consisting of many "camps". Some of these camps employed Nazi workers, who produced rubber and other goods.
Thank you Nonagon for making Shivas die on my hill.
Ah yes, dishonestly quoting Nonagon Infinity in order to create the suggestion that they agree with your holocaust denying rhetoric - despite their explicit commentary otherwise - is a real good look.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Nevertheless, here's a blatantly false quote from the article Roberts wrote that you quoted that started this whole discussion:
Quote:
The "death camps" were in fact work camps.
This is a well-known Holocaust denier talking point. Auschwitz was a massive facility consisting of many "camps". Some of these camps employed Nazi workers, who produced rubber and other goods. There was even one that had a swimming pool. However, by the end of the war, over forty of these camps were dedicated exclusively to the imprisonment and extermination of Jews, Roma, and political enemies of the Nazis. To say that the "death camps" were "in fact" work camps is a blatant lie. Auschwitz consisted of both work camps and death camps. The only reason Roberts would say something like this is to deliberately mislead people into believing the Nazis were innocent of the Holocaust. This is Roberts' narrative in the article: that historians got it all wrong about the Holocaust, and that well-known Holocaust deniers like David Irving are the ones who are really telling the truth about what happened in Nazi Germany.
The quote that you pulled from this same article, the one that you insist on continuing to defend (most likely to protect your own ego) is directed towards that same thesis. If you want me to stop thinking that you're a Holocaust denier, then you need to stop defending the work of a blatant Holocaust denier. If you didn't know any better and this was all a big misunderstanding or whatever, then that's fine, but you should know the truth about Roberts: he's a Holocaust denier, and he's been responsible for spreading misinformation about history on multiple occasions. Otherwise, I have to assume that you did understand this about Roberts and that you agree with him, and if you do, then you are also a Holocaust denier.
Sure, let's stick to the facts:
- Roberts is a Holocaust denier
- The quote you pulled from the article is a prime example of Holocaust denial, and you would be able to see that if you read the entire article
- You have insisted on defending Roberts and his Holocaust denying article
Those are the facts.
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koods
Ribbit



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: Universal mail in voting is mail in voting. He doesn’t want to give people the choice of voting by mail or voting in person. As far as can tell, he only approves of mail in voting when you have an excuse for not voting in person, aka absentee voting.
Universal mail in voting is a type of mail in voting. Trump approves mail in voting for anyone who requests it.
Source or make believe?
--------------------
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26949563 - 09/22/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: You're acting like all he said was that there was no paper document signed by Hitler found detailing the Final Solution, which is true..."
Auschwitz was a massive facility consisting of many "camps". Some of these camps employed Nazi workers, who produced rubber and other goods.
Thank you Nonagon for making Shivas die on my hill.
Ah yes, dishonestly quoting Nonagon Infinity in order to create the suggestion that they agree with your holocaust denying rhetoric - despite their explicit commentary otherwise - is a real good look.
Dishonestly? You'll have to explain.
Do you or nonagon have the documentation that Roberts claimed doesn't exist, or don't you? It's really that simple.
Nonagon also stated that some of the camps were work camps. Are you saying I was dishonestly quoting him about that?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I can agree with that definition. 
Did Roberts claim Hitler didn't know? If so, I missed that statement, and I apologize. 
Yes, he did, and the fact that you missed it means that you didn't actually read the article you quoted from. It wasn't just a statement, either. It was pretty much one of the central theses of the entire article. From what I understand, you pulled the original Roberts quote from Wikipedia (I saw it there, too). Wikipedia is an amazing resource, but it's really only a starting point. In the quote you provided from Wikipedia, there's a link to an article called "The Lies about World War II". It's really important to view sources in full context, because I think it's near-impossible to have read this article all the way through and come to any conclusion other than that Roberts is a Holocaust denier (even just the title of the article alone should have raised a red flag).
Specifically, the thesis that Hitler was unaware of the Final Solution belongs to David Irving. In the article, Roberts quotes Irving multiple times and offers his own support of that thesis. The really frustrating thing is that I already explained this to you earlier in this thread.
I'm glad you understand why this is an appropriate definition of Holocaust denial. Holocaust denial is a very dangerous position to hold, politically, because Holocaust denial has the long-term goal of defending fascism from criticism. Fascism is a dangerous political ideology, and the Nazis are one of history's best examples of what happens when fascism is protected from criticism. Holocaust denial isn't just insulting to Jews, Roma, and other victims of that great tragedy: it could be really dangerous for people who are alive right now.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Nonagon Infinity
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Nonagon also stated that some of the camps were work camps. Are you saying I was dishonestly quoting him about that?
Yes, some of the camps at Auschwitz were work camps. However, these camps employed SS people, not prisoners. The prisoners were placed in concentration camps, where they were murdered en masse. Roberts' quote was that "The "death camps" were, in fact, work camps". That is a fucking lie, Falcon. The use of the words "in fact" in that quote implies that there were no death camps at Auschwitz, which is blatant denial of historical fact.
There is a huge difference between saying:
- Some of the camps at Auschwitz were work camps
- The death camps at Auschwitz weren't really death camps: they were work camps
The second statement is equivalent to Roberts' statement.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I can agree with that definition. 
Did Roberts claim Hitler didn't know? If so, I missed that statement, and I apologize. 
Yes, he did, and the fact that you missed it means that you didn't actually read the article you quoted from.
To clarify, I didn't quote from the article, I quoted from Wikipedia I was asked to read, which didn't give the whole article.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: From what I understand, you pulled the original Roberts quote from Wikipedia (I saw it there, too). Wikipedia is an amazing resource, but it's really only a starting point.
Exactly.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: In the quote you provided from Wikipedia, there's a link to an article called "The Lies about World War II". It's really important to view sources in full context, because I think it's near-impossible to have read this article all the way through and come to any conclusion other than that Roberts is a Holocaust denier (even just the title of the article alone should have raised a red flag).
Specifically, the thesis that Hitler was unaware of the Final Solution belongs to David Irving. In the article, Roberts quotes Irving multiple times and offers his own support of that thesis. The really frustrating thing is that I already explained this to you earlier in this thread.
I'm glad you understand why this is an appropriate definition of Holocaust denial. Holocaust denial is a very dangerous position to hold, politically, because Holocaust denial has the long-term goal of defending fascism from criticism. Fascism is a dangerous political ideology, and the Nazis are one of history's best examples of what happens when fascism is protected from criticism. Holocaust denial isn't just insulting to Jews, Roma, and other victims of that great tragedy: it could be really dangerous for people who are alive right now.
I read the longer article, and I think many of Roberts points about Hitler are likely valid. But he does imply that Hitler didn't direct the holocaust, so I'll agree with you about that.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Yes, some of the camps at Auschwitz were work camps. However, these camps employed SS people, not prisoners.
Wait, are you claiming Jews weren't put to slave work in any of the camps?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/22/20 03:52 PM)
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Nonagon Infinity
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Yes, some of the camps at Auschwitz were work camps. However, these camps employed SS people, not prisoners.
Wait, are you claiming Jews weren't put to slave work in any of the camps?
No, I'm saying that there were labor camps at Auschwitz that had SS employees and no prison labor, and that there were also camps where prisoners were forced into slave labor, starved, tortured, and murdered.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Ok, got it. Since they killed people after using them for slave labor, you don't appreciate the term work camps. Fair enough.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Ok, got it. Since they killed people after using them for slave labor, you don't appreciate the term work camps. Fair enough.
No, the term "death camp" is far more appropriate for some of the camps at Auschwitz. In particular, Auschwitz-II Birkenau seemed to serve no purpose other than extermination. The only forced labor known to have taken place at that camp that I've read about was the construction of the prison barracks themselves, which the prisoners were forced to build. Once the gas chambers were built, Auschwitz-II Birkenau was pretty much exclusively used for extermination. It's not just that I don't appreciate the term "work camp" to describe Auschwitz-II Birkenau. It's that "work camp" isn't an accurate term to describe what took place there. It was a death camp. The primary purpose of that place was extermination, not labor. It's not about my appreciation or not, it's about being historically accurate. Calling Auschwitz-II Birkenau a "work camp" would be an obvious attempt to obfuscate what really happened there.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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falcon



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Ok, got it. Since they killed people after using them for slave labor, you don't appreciate the term work camps. Fair enough.
The killed people transporting them to the camps, by forcing them stand without water for days, camps can also be considered post death camps where they unload some of the transports already unable to preform labor, due to death.
Edited by falcon (09/22/20 05:13 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon *DELETED* [Re: falcon]
#26949778 - 09/22/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Falcon91Wolvrn03
Reason for deletion: Duplicate post
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Universal mail in voting is a type of mail in voting. Trump approves mail in voting for anyone who requests it.
Source or make believe?
What, that universal voting is a type of mail in voting, or that trump is fine with mail in voting for people who request it?
Remarks by President Trump in Press Briefing | September 18, 2020
Quote:
Q: Don’t your officials vote by mail, sir? People in the White House vote by mail. Are they part of the scam?
THE PRESIDENT: They do, but that’s different. That’s called “solicited.” When you solicit, when you go out — it’s called “absentee” or “solicit.” When you go out and you request a ballot — you want to say, “I want to vote because I can’t be in Florida or I can’t be someplace.” You request. So you’re sending something in, it’s handled professionally, they send it back — it’s a whole thing. That’s much different than “unsolicited...”
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: falcon] 1
#26950158 - 09/22/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
falcon said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Ok, got it. Since they killed people after using them for slave labor, you don't appreciate the term work camps. Fair enough.
The killed people transporting them to the camps, by forcing them stand without water for days, camps can also be considered post death camps where they unload some of the transports already unable to preform labor, due to death.
This was one of the explicit goals of the Final Solution. According to SS General Reinhard Heydrich:
Quote:
“during the course of the Final Solution, the Jews will be deployed under appropriate supervision at a suitable form of labor deployment in the East. In large labor columns, separated by gender, able-bodied Jews will be brought to those regions to build roads, whereby a large number will doubtlessly be lost through natural reduction. Any final remnant that survives will doubtless consist of the elements most capable of resistance. They must be dealt with appropriately, since, representing the fruit of natural selection, they are to be regarded as the core of a new Jewish revival.”
They were literally afraid that their methods of transporting Jews and working them to death would create a forced evolution in favor of a strong Super-Jew who could handle the pressure, and would lead the Jewish rebellion.
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koods
Ribbit



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Universal mail in voting is a type of mail in voting. Trump approves mail in voting for anyone who requests it.
Source or make believe?
What, that universal voting is a type of mail in voting, or that trump is fine with mail in voting for people who request it?
Remarks by President Trump in Press Briefing | September 18, 2020
Quote:
Q: Don’t your officials vote by mail, sir? People in the White House vote by mail. Are they part of the scam?
THE PRESIDENT: They do, but that’s different. That’s called “solicited.” When you solicit, when you go out — it’s called “absentee” or “solicit.” When you go out and you request a ballot — you want to say, “I want to vote because I can’t be in Florida or I can’t be someplace.” You request. So you’re sending something in, it’s handled professionally, they send it back — it’s a whole thing. That’s much different than “unsolicited...”
Show me where trump thinks people who don’t want to vote in person for any reason can mail in a ballot. Trump doesn’t want excuse free mail in voting. Prove me wrong.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26950308 - 09/22/20 11:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said: Source or make believe?
Remarks by President Trump in Press Briefing | September 18, 2020
Quote:
Q: Don’t your officials vote by mail, sir? People in the White House vote by mail. Are they part of the scam?
THE PRESIDENT: They do, but that’s different. That’s called “solicited.” When you solicit, when you go out — it’s called “absentee” or “solicit.” When you go out and you request a ballot — you want to say, “I want to vote because I can’t be in Florida or I can’t be someplace.” You request. So you’re sending something in, it’s handled professionally, they send it back — it’s a whole thing. That’s much different than “unsolicited...”
Show me where trump thinks people who don’t want to vote in person for any reason can mail in a ballot. Trump doesn’t want excuse free mail in voting. Prove me wrong.
He keeps complaining about unsolicited ballots:
Quote:
And the dirtiest fight of all is the issuance of 80 million ballots, unrequested. They’re not requested; they’re just sending 80 million ballots all over the country. Eighty million ballots, non-requested. I call them “unsolicited ballots.”
He himself voted by mail.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



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How is sending a ballot to registered voters “unsolicited?”
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm doing my best to figure out what the voting situation is, though many people here can't seem to get past "whatever my side tells me to believe, is what I'm going to believe, I'm not going to look into it".
It turns out Trump DOES support mail in voting for all who request it. What's new/different this time around is that Democrats want to give everyone a mail in ballot whether they request it or not. And we know how inaccurate the voter rolls are.
So I believe Trump may have a valid concern.
New Local Election Ordered in N.J. After Mail-In Voter Fraud Charges The New York Times Aug. 19, 2020
Quote:
In the days before New Jersey’s third-largest city held municipal elections in May entirely by mail, postal workers became suspicious when they found hundreds of ballots bundled together.
On Wednesday, a New Jersey judge ruled that the election in Paterson, N.J., had been irreversibly tainted and ordered a new vote to be held in November to settle the race for the City Council seat.
Mr. Trump’s campaign cited the Paterson corruption case as a reason not to expand voting by mail. “By ordering universal vote-by-mail, he has created a recipe for disaster”
...more than 3,000 ballots that were thrown out to make the case that mail-in voting makes it too easy to manipulate elections by allowing ineligible voters, including the dead, to vote.
Rick Hasen, an election law professor at the University of California, Irvine, School of Law, said the problems in Paterson illustrate the challenges of mass rollouts of mail-in voting and the need for anti-fraud mechanisms like ballot tracking, which allows voters to follow their ballots through the postal system.
In Illinois all county clerks, Democratic and Republican, are pushing mail in voting. By pushing I mean they make the first move. They do this every election, but more so now with the pandemic. I doubt Illinois is unique in this regard.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26950588 - 09/23/20 07:22 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Since everything from the MSM can be dismissed immediately, here's what the Guardian said Monday. Since Louis DeJoy was appointed Postmaster General by Trump, there have been noticable and significant delays in the time it takes for mail to be delivered.
DeJoy comes to the job with no relevant experience and has been a very large Trump campaign donor. Trump has already said that the only way he can lose the election is by being cheated out of victory by fraudulent mail in voting. This coming from a man who is polling very badly.
What does it take to connect the dots here?
I think the whole issue will be moot. Although mail in voting may delay the election results a bit, the Democrat's victory in the electoral college will be so decisive, only crackpots will be able to question the election results.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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christopera
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26950638 - 09/23/20 08:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Trump's campaign is going to call victory on election night before the mail in votes are counted. Then we will wait days, maybe weeks for it to flush out and likely prove a Biden win. Trump's campaign will challenge it, and it will end up in the stacked Supreme Court.
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Enlil
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: christopera]
#26950701 - 09/23/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have more faith than that in the Supremes
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christopera
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26950774 - 09/23/20 09:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I actually have a fair amount of faith too. That's why I didn't draw a conclusion. I still think that scenario is fairly realistic though. There however is no way to deny the court is currently stacked, and will be stacked further once a judge is chosen. That said, Trump's picks have been way better than the hysteria made it out to be, and in many cases have shut Trump down.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26950822 - 09/23/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: How is sending a ballot to registered voters “unsolicited?”
How is sending a mail in ballot to someone who didn't request a mail in ballot unsolicited?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26950826 - 09/23/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: In Illinois all county clerks, Democratic and Republican, are pushing mail in voting. By pushing I mean they make the first move. They do this every election, but more so now with the pandemic. I doubt Illinois is unique in this regard.
So Illinois voters have previously been sent vote by mail ballots without requesting them? I'm not clear what you're saying.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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To clarify, I'm NOT saying we shouldn't send everyone unsolicited vote by mail ballots. I'm saying this is what Trump is upset about, while the mainstream media is trying to push the false narrative that he wants to shut down mail in voting during the pandemic.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: christopera]
#26951260 - 09/23/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: I actually have a fair amount of faith too. That's why I didn't draw a conclusion. I still think that scenario is fairly realistic though. There however is no way to deny the court is currently stacked, and will be stacked further once a judge is chosen. That said, Trump's picks have been way better than the hysteria made it out to be, and in many cases have shut Trump down.
I think once the 6-3 conservative majority is established, we will see a lot more "Trump appointees shutting Trump down". They'll still make 5-4 decisions in favor of Trump, but they can rotate their "dissent" to appear bipartisan. It's the Murkowski/Collins/Romney triangle play.
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Brian Jones
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: To clarify, I'm NOT saying we shouldn't send everyone unsolicited vote by mail ballots. I'm saying this is what Trump is upset about, while the mainstream media is trying to push the false narrative that he wants to shut down mail in voting during the pandemic.
There is absolutely nothing false about that narrative. He wants the Post Office crippled so the results are delayed.
IMO he knows he's not going to win, and I would like to think he's intelligent enough to know that this plan wont deliver him another term, no matter how many conservatives are on the Supreme Court. It's all about his pride. He can't face what he knows is going to happen; he's going to get his ass handed him in the electoral college results. But for his own psyche and for his base, he wants to be able to claim he was cheated out of it.
It's very short sighted really. He's about to be in court on so many cases, being the most failed politician since Nixon is going to be the least of his worries. Once Nixon resigned, he was out of the frying pan. It's not going to go that way for Trump. Revenge is sweet.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Brian Jones said: In Illinois all county clerks, Democratic and Republican, are pushing mail in voting. By pushing I mean they make the first move. They do this every election, but more so now with the pandemic. I doubt Illinois is unique in this regard.
So Illinois voters have previously been sent vote by mail ballots without requesting them? I'm not clear what you're saying.
I'm not exactly positive because I'm always registered to vote. In Illinois even if you don't make a real effort to get registered, it gets pushed on you pretty hard at the DMV when you get a drivers license or state ID. You have to make a conscious choice to not be registered.
Myself, my roommate, and his new wife all received applications from the county clerk for mail in ballots. I didn't ask them, but I don't think they've been voting recently. The process seems automatic.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26952637 - 09/24/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: To clarify, I'm NOT saying we shouldn't send everyone unsolicited vote by mail ballots. I'm saying this is what Trump is upset about, while the mainstream media is trying to push the false narrative that he wants to shut down mail in voting during the pandemic.
There is absolutely nothing false about that narrative. He wants the Post Office crippled so the results are delayed.
That's a different narrative though. He still says he wants vote by mail, but not with unsolicited ballots. As for the USPS problems, I think he's just pushing the conservative position of wanting to shut USPS down, which I strongly disagree with.
Quote:
Brian Jones said: IMO he knows he's not going to win, and I would like to think he's intelligent enough to know that this plan wont deliver him another term, no matter how many conservatives are on the Supreme Court. It's all about his pride. He can't face what he knows is going to happen; he's going to get his ass handed him in the electoral college results. But for his own psyche and for his base, he wants to be able to claim he was cheated out of it.
My opinion is that his base is a lot more motivated that Biden's base, and even if he has fewer supporters overall, he may well get more votes. That's why the Dems want to send mail in ballots to everyone, even those who didn't request it.
Again, I'm not even opposed to that, I'm just pointing out that's what Trump is fighting.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26952641 - 09/24/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: I'm not exactly positive because I'm always registered to vote. In Illinois even if you don't make a real effort to get registered, it gets pushed on you pretty hard at the DMV when you get a drivers license or state ID. You have to make a conscious choice to not be registered.
Myself, my roommate, and his new wife all received applications from the county clerk for mail in ballots. I didn't ask them, but I don't think they've been voting recently. The process seems automatic.
That's also a different issue. Being pushed to register for mail in ballots is different that just getting them if mail in ballots were never requested.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Brian Jones
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bernie-sanders-rips-trump-over-comments-about-election-integrity/ar-BB19ovKL?ocid=msedgntp
When I said this you implied I was a pawn of the MSM, although I pointed out that the Guardian said it.
So if Bernie Sanders says it, what's the deal with him? If qman ripped me for this I would accept that because he says Bernie's a POS now, and I accept consistency in arguments.
How are you going to deal with, what looks very much to me, like an inconsistency.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Brian Jones]
#26954360 - 09/25/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bernie-sanders-rips-trump-over-comments-about-election-integrity/ar-BB19ovKL?ocid=msedgntp
When I said this you implied I was a pawn of the MSM, although I pointed out that the Guardian said it.
The Guardian IS a mainstream source. They print the same fake news as the NYT and WaPo.
Quote:
Brian Jones said: So if Bernie Sanders says it, what's the deal with him? If qman ripped me for this I would accept that because he says Bernie's a POS now, and I accept consistency in arguments.
How are you going to deal with, what looks very much to me, like an inconsistency.
Unfortunately, I agree with qman. Bernie went all in for Biden.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: To clarify, I'm NOT saying we shouldn't send everyone unsolicited vote by mail ballots. I'm saying this is what Trump is upset about, while the mainstream media is trying to push the false narrative that he wants to shut down mail in voting during the pandemic.
If you’re registered to vote then you have solicited a ballot. I don’t see what the problem is unless your goal is to deter voting.
--------------------
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26962348 - 09/30/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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feevers


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I know in my state you have to sign off that it's a felony if you file a ballot that's not your own. If someone's willing to commit a felony for one vote, wouldn't they be just as likely to walk in to the polling place and vote under the names of friends or family members that they know wouldn't be voting? I'm not sure if it's the same throughout the country, but here all you do is give your name and street and they hand you the ballot.
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koods
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: feevers]
#26962437 - 09/30/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Uh oh. More mail in voting problems.
NYC elections board says nearly 100,000 Brooklyn voters received wrong ballot return envelopes
Of course, Trump is all over it.
Omg wrong return envelope.
Are you getting paid to shill for trump now? This is pathetic
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/30/20 04:54 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26962639 - 09/30/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Are you getting paid to shill for trump now? This is pathetic
It's a CNN article. You'll have to ask them if they're getting paid to shill for Trump now.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Gee I wonder if I’m talking about the cnn article or the fact that you linked to trumps claim that it’s fraud that there was a mistake with envelopes. Of course you know that, you’re not stupid. Just dishonest.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26963698 - 10/01/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Gee I wonder if I’m talking about the cnn article or the fact that you linked to trumps claim that it’s fraud that there was a mistake with envelopes. Of course you know that, you’re not stupid. Just dishonest.
No, actually I didn't know that, I thought you were referring to the CNN article. Thanks for the clarification, and please stop with the make believe.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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You posted an article from CNN and a tweet from trump. I called you a shill for Trump. Why would you think I was refering to the CNN article. That’s just not believable. Stop lying.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26964021 - 10/01/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: You posted an article from CNN and a tweet from trump. I called you a shill for Trump.
Correct.
Quote:
koods said: Why would you think I was refering to the CNN article.
Because the CNN article confirmed what Trump has been saying.
Quote:
koods said: That’s just not believable. Stop lying.
I just explained it. If you want to make believing what other people are thinking, then you shouldn't get upset when people call you out for make believing.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
Because the CNN article confirmed what Trump has been saying.
What Trump claims did the CNN article confirm?
--------------------
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Seriously_trippin
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26964217 - 10/01/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Because the CNN article confirmed what Trump has been saying.
What Trump claims did the CNN article confirm?
This answer shoud be fun
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Enlil
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I went sentence by sentence through the tweet, and I don't think a single thing in it is confirmed by the linked CNN story.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26964284 - 10/01/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Because the CNN article confirmed what Trump has been saying.
What Trump claims did the CNN article confirm?
This answer shoud be fun
That there may be problems with mail in voting. That's what we've been discussing in this thread.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Because the CNN article confirmed what Trump has been saying.
What Trump claims did the CNN article confirm?
This answer shoud be fun
That there may be problems with mail in voting. That's what we've been discussing in this thread.
Trumps isn’t simply claiming “there may be problems.” He’s saying the problem will be fraud. He’s never said there may be a problem with return envelopes. Problems with return envelopes have nothing to do with fraud.
Here’s the text of trumps tweet. He’s saying the situation in NY is “big fraud.” It is not. That’s make believe.
Quote:
Wow! 100,000 Mail In Ballots in New York City a total MESS. Mayor and Governor have no idea what to do. Big Fraud, Unfixable! Cancel Ballots and go out and VOTE, just like in past decades, when there were no problems!
Falcon had gone from auditioning to be Putin’s press secretary, to auditioning to be Trumps.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/01/20 05:40 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26964403 - 10/01/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: That there may be problems with mail in voting. That's what we've been discussing in this thread.
Trumps isn’t simply claiming “there may be problems.” He’s saying the problem will be fraud. He’s never said there may be a problem with return envelopes. Problems with return envelopes have nothing to do with fraud.
Agreed, he said he's worried about fraud in states that have never done unsolicited mail in voting before. Especially in swing states, like Nevada.
Since he's losing the fight to make mail-in voting more secure, I think he's being critical of mail-in voting in general.
You should watch the Scott Adams video Metoo posted earlier. It really helps to understand Trump and Trump supporters.
Or you can just make believe an MBA from UC Berkeley isn't an education.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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You just claimed the CNN article confirmed what trump was saying. So you no longer believe that?
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: koods]
#26964545 - 10/01/20 06:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll let Trump explain:
Quote:
“We had a problem in New York, they have 100,000 ballots that are a mess,” Trump told reporters on the White House lawn as he departed for a campaign trip to Minnesota.
“They’re all confused, all mixed up. Now they say they’re going to redo them. Well, what are they going to do with 100,000 ballots that have already been sent? This is exactly what I’m talking about,” Trump said.
“It’s a big, big, big-scale problem. A hundred thousand ballots went out to New York with the wrong names on them, wrong envelopes, wrong addresses, wrong everything. And now they want to redo the ballots and that doesn’t help because what about the ones that are already sent? This is exactly what I’m talking about.”
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Yet another flat out lie from Trump.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26964589 - 10/01/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Was it a lie? That didn't happen?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,496
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Yup.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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