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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently influencing in the election in trumps favor * 1
    #26941216 - 09/17/20 07:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

So to people who don't dismiss real US intelligence gathering or just think everything negative about Trump is a hoax you may want to listen to the FBI chief director testifying that "The intelligence communities consensus is that Russia continues to try and influence our elections primarily through maligned foreign influence as opposed to the cyber attacks on voting infrastructure. We have not seen this second part yet this year but we have certainly seen very active very active efforts by the Russians to influence our elections in 2020. Through what I would call the maligned foreign influence ex Social media, use of proxies state media, online journals etc in effort to both sow decisiveness and discord. And the intelligence community has asses this publicly : to primarily denigrate vice president Biden and what the Russians see is an anti Russian establishment(with biden). That's essentially what we are seeing in 2020


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Edited by Seriously_trippin (09/18/20 12:10 PM)


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OfflineSkellies


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26941237 - 09/17/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

He’s talking about influencing, not interfering. Foreign powers influencing the election is important to think about, but not as severe/dramatic as interference.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Skellies]
    #26941260 - 09/17/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

austothehun said:
He’s talking about influencing, not interfering. Foreign powers influencing the election is important to think about, but not as severe/dramatic as interference.



As long as we as a nation take it seriously and know the Russians want Biden to lose and have influenced the election I can say influenced instead of interfering THIS time but it's still horrible and shows corrupt enemies want trump in power and are actively trying to make that happen


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 3
    #26941524 - 09/17/20 11:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The intelligence community's consensus is that Russia continues to try to influence our elections primarily through what we would call "maligned foreign influence" as opposed to what we saw in 2016 where there was also an effort to target election infrastructure (cyber targeting).  We have not seen that second part yet this year, or this cycle.  But we certainly have seen very active efforts by the Russians to influence our election in 2020 through what I would call the "maligned foreign influence" side of things... social media, use of proxies, state media, online journals etc.



So no "cyber targeting" this time around has been found, and no big political spending like in 2016 (~$10,000) on crazy Facebook/Google click-bait ads?  Just Russians sharing their thoughts on social media sites like the Shroomery?  OH MY, we wouldn't want to have that discussion!  Should we censor foreign countries from our Internet like China does in some cases?

I remember last election when Russia tried to get Trump to win.  That is, until it was proven they weren't helping Trump at all, then the narrative had to change to "sowing discord" (because THAT'S never happened in election history befoere!)

And I remember when they failed to find evidence of Trump-Russia election "collusion", so we changed the narrative to election "interference", even though the charges against the parent company of the Internet Research Agency (IRA) had to be dropped due to a lack of evidence (or due to the FBI claiming it was more important to keep things secret than to find Russia guilty of election interference in court).


I'll leave you with this story from The Onion:
Quote:

SMOLENSK, RUSSIA

Lamenting that any interesting challenge in disrupting the vote has been completely removed from his job, Russian operative Pavel Artemyev reportedly expressed disappointment Friday that gerrymandering has taken all the fun out of hacking the 2020 election. “I really thought it would be a huge thrill trying to dismantle the U.S. democratic system, but it looks like all the work has already been done,” said Artemyev, who claimed that any excitement he once had about diminishing Americans’ faith in their democracy quickly disappeared upon the realization that elected U.S. officials had tirelessly toiled to suppress voters with discriminatory and partisan-rigged district maps. “I got into this because I wanted to make a difference, only to hack the Florida rolls and find out most of the African American voters have already been purged. It kind of sucks because there’s no way my work could be as substantive as polling-place closures, malfunctioning equipment, and laws that allow election officials to reject ballots without standards or repercussions. I’m basically getting paid to do nothing.” At press time, Artemyev had settled on creating and spreading false news stories about Sharia Law in the U.S. only to discover dozens of American publications already doing that as well.




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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Skellies]
    #26941641 - 09/18/20 02:43 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

austothehun said:
He’s talking about influencing, not interfering. Foreign powers influencing the election is important to think about, but not as severe/dramatic as interference.




If Russians are trying to get Trump reelected, then can you explain a useful difference, between the terms influencing and interfering? I don't know you and I'm not at all arguing with you. But a bunch of us have been going back and forth on this for a long time. They say there is nothing to this story. Some called it fake news. I keep saying once Trump is out of office this issue is only going to get bigger.

Off topic, but FBI director Christopher Wray (appointed by Trump) also just said about ANTIFA, "It's not a group or an organization, it's a movement or an ideology." This will hinder Trump's efforts to designate them as a terrorist organization.


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Offlineqman
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26942001 - 09/18/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Russia isn't "interfering in the election". :facepalm:  Stop with the false narratives.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26942293 - 09/18/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Look, if there's any Russians posting here on the shroomery, they may well be "influencing" the election if they successfully argue their points.  It matters not what their nationality is, but what their argument is.  I'm not Russian, so the FBI probably classifies me as one of those Russian "proxies" talked about in the OP, since I often speak with US citizens who were born in Russia.  :lol:


--------------------
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Offlineqman
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26942303 - 09/18/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Trump and Biden are both 'interfering in the election'. :crankey:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: qman]
    #26942310 - 09/18/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:cookiemonster:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineSkellies


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26942393 - 09/18/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
If Russians are trying to get Trump reelected, then can you explain a useful difference, between the terms influencing and interfering? I don't know you and I'm not at all arguing with you. But a bunch of us have been going back and forth on this for a long time. They say there is nothing to this story. Some called it fake news. I keep saying once Trump is out of office this issue is only going to get bigger.





Interference would mean they stop/hinder the election operations or infrastructure, which would be a huge security and legitimacy issue. Examples could include changing vote counts, messing with ballots, etc.

Influencing would involve changing who people choose to vote for, weather through persuasion, disinformation, etc. When considering global politics, it’s important to identify which countries are influencing the election, in support of who, and consider why they’re doing it.

I haven’t been following super closely, but so far I’ve only seen evidence of the latter.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
As long as we as a nation take it seriously and know the Russians want Biden to lose and have influenced the election I can say influenced instead of interfering THIS time but it's still horrible and shows corrupt enemies want trump in power and are actively trying to make that happen




I think influence is normal in the realm of geopolitics. It’s something voters should consider though.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Skellies]
    #26942409 - 09/18/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

austothehun said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
As long as we as a nation take it seriously and know the Russians want Biden to lose...



I think influence is normal in the realm of geopolitics. It’s something voters should consider though.



Many Russians don't want Biden to win, because he'll ramp the cold war back up, and that's not good for anyone but the military industrial complex.  I'm in agreement with them.

It's funny how many people now make the establishment's argument:  "Russia doesn't like Biden, therefore we should all vote Biden".  But the argument really should be "Russia doesn't want another cold war, and anyone who agrees shouldn't vote Biden"


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26942517 - 09/18/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, a cold war would be so much worse than the active, hot war that's been raging for almost two decades now.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Enlil]
    #26942528 - 09/18/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:lolwut:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26942529 - 09/18/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You haven't noticed that we've been at war for almost two decades?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Skellies]
    #26942581 - 09/18/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

austothehun said:
He’s talking about influencing, not interfering.




If I hold a piece of iron near a compass it points to a whole nother direction than its meant to. I am merely influencing the compass but it interferes with its natural outcome.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante]
    #26942585 - 09/18/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Russia can't really  deploy its navy and shell the US coastal cities on both coasts.

It can, however, help to get Trump re-elected which does even more damage.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante]
    #26942591 - 09/18/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Both Putin and David Duke stated a preference for Trump as their candidate of choice.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante]
    #26942603 - 09/18/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Trump being elected in 2016 was a great internal win for Russia, because Trump is widely considered to be a fool that is under Putin's control in Russia. I mentioned it before, but there were multiple headlines saying "Trump is ours" in the Russian news back in 2017. Several of my cousins openly asked me how it felt having POTUS being subordinate to Putin.

Trump being re-elected in 2020 will only magnify that.

From an outside perspective, Trump is a joke. People I know in Europe, it's a bad, scary joke. People I know in Russia, it's hilarious. There are a small minority of people seriously saying that the Cold War didn't end until 2016, when the US became a vassal state of Russia.

I don't think that assessment is entirely correct. Yet.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Enlil]
    #26942630 - 09/18/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You haven't noticed that we've been at war for almost two decades?



A hot war with Russia?  No, I haven't noticed.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26942633 - 09/18/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
If I hold a piece of iron near a compass it points to a whole nother direction than its meant to. I am merely influencing the compass but it interferes with its natural outcome.



Kind of like if Americans are given more information to consider, it interferes with their natural state of ignorance?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26942666 - 09/18/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

austothehun said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
As long as we as a nation take it seriously and know the Russians want Biden to lose...



I think influence is normal in the realm of geopolitics. It’s something voters should consider though.



Many Russians don't want Biden to win, because he'll ramp the cold war back up, and that's not good for anyone but the military industrial complex.  I'm in agreement with them.

It's funny how many people now make the establishment's argument:  "Russia doesn't like Biden, therefore we should all vote Biden".  But the argument really should be "Russia doesn't want another cold war, and anyone who agrees shouldn't vote Biden"



Thats the conservative narrative but really Russia wants to keep getting away with things like poisoning the most outspoken critic recently with novichok poison along with thousands more in many decades. He wants to Annex disputed territories in have the u.s. be an ally to that. Bernie wouldn't create a cold war but he wouldn't keep silent on very important matters like influencing our election process,making territorial land grabs and poison critics that are fighting for democracy that's as important in Russia as it is in China  In 2016 it was determined those interference but I argue that influence from a foreign government that is not an ally is something every voter needs to consider and look at that track record on how "tough" Trump really is to Russia and what that will mean for our actual allies.

He dismissed evidence across the board in 2016 as a witch hunt when our intelligence agencies were telling them that there was Russian nationals sowing discord to get Trump elected, when covid hit he said it was "another russian witch hunt" Now we gather intelligence that our enemy is trying to influence voters into thinking Bernie has dementia which was also proven by the fbi and to create more chaos to help muddy the waters. No matter how you look at it, knowing that the Russians are influencing US voters in a very elaborate ploy should be enough to scare the crap out of people aware of how damaging that is to our specific democratic process.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26942670 - 09/18/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

No, America knows trump is not right for the nation, but if Trump can be given a second term, more damage will be done to the US, to the benefit of Russia which enjoys a weak USA,


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante]
    #26942678 - 09/18/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Russia can't really  deploy its navy and shell the US coastal cities on both coasts.

It can, however, help to get Trump re-elected which does even more damage.



Yeah there's no scenario where Russia "wins" with nuclear war but they have been playing us like a fiddle since 2016 and it succeeded. We are in a position where almost half the US takes trumps word over the top scientists in the world and the other half are furious that this has become a political issue to save lives. Also I'm not going to blame Russia for this but we have seen more hatred since 2016 than I've seen in 26 years of life we've seen more riots then ever, family and friends that had no problems now hate each other. Russia damages us a lot with that alone, no bombs required.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26942683 - 09/18/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Thats the conservative narrative but really Russia wants to keep getting away with things like poisoning the most outspoken critic recently with novichok poison along with thousands more in many decades.



Conservatives also want people to stop with all the make believe.  Yes, the German military claimed novichok poisoning.  They won't share their results with anyone, but liberals don't care.

Make believe is now a mainstream liberal thing, and they'll shame people like me for not make believing along with them.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
He wants to Annex disputed territories in have the u.s. be an ally to that. Bernie wouldn't create a cold war but he wouldn't keep silent on very important matters like influencing our election process,making territorial land grabs and poison critics that are fighting for democracy that's as important in Russia as it is in China  In 2016 it was determined those interference but I argue that influence from a foreign government that is not an ally is something every voter needs to consider and look at that track record on how "tough" Trump really is to Russia and what that will mean for our actual allies.

He dismissed evidence across the board in 2016 as a witch hunt when our intelligence agencies were telling them that there was Russian nationals sowing discord to get Trump elected, when covid hit he said it was "another russian witch hunt" Now we gather intelligence that our enemy is trying to influence voters into thinking Bernie has dementia which was also proven by the fbi and to create more chaos to help muddy the waters. No matter how you look at it, knowing that the Russians are influencing US voters in a very elaborate ploy should be enough to scare the crap out of people aware of how damaging that is to our specific democratic process.



HOLY MAKE BELIEVE DUDE!  Most of this has been previously discussed, but I guess you've just proven my last point.


--------------------
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26942692 - 09/18/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Make believe is now a mainstream liberal thing




It used to be a conservatives only thing but it metastatized.


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OfflineSkellies


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26942700 - 09/18/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
If I hold a piece of iron near a compass it points to a whole nother direction than its meant to. I am merely influencing the compass but it interferes with its natural outcome.




The difference is that voters have consciousness and we hold them accountable for their own decision making. A compass can’t make decisions.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante]
    #26942709 - 09/18/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
It used to be a conservatives only thing but it metastatized.



I totally agree.  :thumbup:

Though I'm liberal, I find I get better news today from Fox than MSNBC.  But I'm not saying that either are very good.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26942721 - 09/18/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Were going in circles again and this is critical, let's get something straight everything that I say isn't bullshit and everything that you say isn't bullshit but there's been A LOT of poisoned activists, journalists, dissidents etc. That is well documented. First let's establish theyndont poison people unless they think they can get away without proof they did it that being said there's still a long history of critics of put in disappearing being put in gulags and poisonings.

The suspected poisoning of Russia's best-known opposition leader Alexey Navalny is the latest to happen to a long line of Kremlin opponents.

The Kremlin, as it has with Navalny’s case, has denied any involvement but poison has long been a weapon used by the Russian security services and employed by the Soviet Union under president Vladimir Putin.

Before Navalny, a long history of Russian poisoningsPoison has long been a weapon of the Russian security services



Putin critic remains in coma

Alexey Navalny was flown via air ambulance from Russia to Germany, where he remains hospitalized.

Alexey Navalny was flown via air ambulance from Russia to Germany, where he remains hospitalized.Shamil Zhumatov/Reuters

The suspected poisoning of Russia's best-known opposition leader Alexey Navalny is the latest to happen to a long line of Kremlin opponents.

The Kremlin, as it has with Navalny’s case, has denied any involvement but poison has long been a weapon used by the Russian security services and employed by the Soviet Union under president Vladimir Putin.

In some cases evidence has emerged seeming to strongly link them to the Russian state, while others have remained mysterious.

The Kremlin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Monday told reporters he disagreed there was a “trend” of Kremlin opponents being poisoned.

"You’ll agree that in many country in the world, everyday a lot of poisonings happen,” Peskov said, saying it was necessary to look at every case individually.

(FILES) In this file photo taken on September 29, 2019 Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny speaks during a demonstration in Moscow. - US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said on August 25, 2020, the United States is "deeply concerned" about the apparent poisoning of Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny and urged a full investigation.

But the list of those who have troubled the Russian government or security services and then suffered poisoning is lengthy.

Within its first years, the Soviet Union developed a secret poison lab within its security services. The lab, known among security agents as “kamera” -- meaning “the chamber” in Russian -- for decades specialized in developing poisons difficult to detect and, under Joseph Stalin, tested its products on gulag prisoners, according to Soviet defectors.

Boris Voldarsky, a former officer from the Soviet military intelligence agency, the GRU, who has written a book on the KGB poison program has written there is one constant in the lab's products.

“They must make the victim's death or illness appear natural or at least produce symptoms that will baffle doctors and forensic investigators. To this end the Kamera developed its defining specialty: combining known poisons into original and untraceable forms," Voldarsky wrote in an article for The Wall Street Journal in 2005.

There were several famous poisoning episodes during the Cold War. Georgi Markov, a Bulgarian dissident died after a KGB agent pricked him with a ricin-tipped umbrella. In 1957, Nikolai Khokhlov, a KGB defector, came close to death after drinking a cup of coffee laced with an unknown type of thallium.

Poisonings have occurred under Putin almost since the start of his rule. In 2004, Viktor Yushchenko, a candidate who ran against a Kremlin-favored incumbent for Ukraine's presidency was poisoned with dioxin, leaving him disfigured.

The same year, the celebrated investigative journalist, Anna Politkovskaya fell suddenly ill and lost consciousness after drinking a cup of tea while flying to the Russian city of Beslan during the school siege there. She survived, but was shot dead two years later, on Putin’s birthday.

The two poisonings that have most closely associated Putin with poisoning internationally occurred in the U.K. In 2006, Alexander Litvinenko, a former officer from Russia’s FSB security service turned critic, died after being exposed to polonium-210, a radioactive isotope, slipped into his tea at an upscale hotel. British police later sought to charge two Russians, Dmitry Kovtun and Andrey Lugovoy and a U.K. public inquiry concluded that Putin had likely personally ordered the assassination. Russia refused to extradite the two men and Lugovoy was instead made a member of parliament.

In 2018, another former Russian intelligence officer Sergey Skripal, was nearly fatally poisoned with a nerve agent in the English town of Salisbury. The poison, which was identified by British investigators as a nerve agent, known as "Novichok", developed by the Soviet Union as part of a secret chemical weapons program. Russia again denied responsibility, but U.K. police were able to track two men, who were later identified as officers in Russian military intelligence. Both men, Anatoly Chepiga and Alexander Mishkin were found to have previously received Russia’s highest state honor, awarded personally by Putin.

Experts have stressed that Navalny may not have been poisoned at the Kremlin’s order. Navalny, who has made his name with high-profile investigations of alleged corruption among powerful Russians, has many enemies.

The choice of poison though usually means the involvement of Russia's security services, whether acting for the state or corruptly for others.

“No matter whether it’s an attempted murder or just scare tactics, poisonings are pretty much always somehow connected to the security services,” Tatiana Stanovaya, a non-resident scholar at the Carnegie Moscow Center wrote last week, adding that she does not believe the Kremlin ordered the assassination attempt. She wrote she believes the attack on Navalny was likely carried out by powerful figures acting on their initiative, either indifferent to the Kremlin's reaction or believing it would please it. .

Navalny's case for now has drawn the closest comparisons with two other suspected poisoning cases of opposition figures. Vladimir Kara-Murza, a pro-democracy activist from Open Russia, a group funded by Putin foe Mikhail Khodorkovsky, twice nearly died in 2015 and 2017 after his organs suddenly began failing. A French lab found high levels of heavy metals in his blood but was unable to identify the poison.


Petr Verzilov, a member of the protest group, Pussy Riot, two years ago suddenly fell inexplicably and critically ill. He was evacuated to Germany for treatment, kept in an induced coma, and doctors there said he had been poisoned. Verzilov survived and last week helped arrange for Navalny to be airlifted to Germany by the same Berlin-based non-profit that had aided him.

Verzilov has said his symptoms were very similar to Navalny’s and has blamed both poisonings personally on Putin.

The Charité hospital treating Navalny has said its analysis showed he is suffering from poisoning from cholinesterase inhibitors, chemicals that belong to a very broad group of substances ranging from pesticides and medication to military grade nerve agents, that includes Novichok.

Dan Kaszeta, a chemical and biological weapons expert and the author of a book on nerve agents, "Toxic", told ABC News on Tuesday that without knowing what the substance was for now it was impossible to say if whatever had poisoned Navalny had been developed in a sophisticated military lab or something more commonly available.

Andrei Soldatov, a long-time expert on the Russian security services and author of "The Compatriots," a history of Russian espionage abroad, including poisonings, said he did not believe a figure with Navalny's position in Russia could have been targeted without the Kremlin's order.

"I’ve been hearing this argument for like many years. From Politkovskaya, to Litvinenko, to Skripal. That it could not be possibly the Kremlin but someone trying to please the Kremlin," Soldatov said by phone Wednesday. "But the problem with this argument is that in 2020 the situation is not what we had in 2004, 2006. The room for any kind of unsanctioned activity from the secret services especially in such a sensitive area is very limited. It’s really difficult to imagine that somebody would dare to do something that drastic and not first secure some kind of agreement. To be sure that he or she is on the safe side."
https://abcnews.go.com/International/navalny-long-history-russian-poisonings/story?id=72579648


Don't you think it a little odd that Putin's most well known critic all of the sudden went into a coma getting sick in all the symptoms of novichok poison which is used by the Russian government? Does that really not raise any red flag for you?


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26942784 - 09/18/20 04:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The poisoning I'd assume is Putin.

I think the circumstances are much more interesting than the action itself. I don't think Navalny was supposed to die. I'd be more inclined to think it was an attempt to gain favor if he did die.

The way I see it it's a reminder. It's like the horse head in Godfather, or the movie trope of waking up with a bullet on the nightstand/under the pillow.

I see this more as a political ploy. Putin reached out and touched someone. It's a reminder that Putin can reach out and touch anyone, not limited by borders. It's an expression of power. It's like a drone strike, but subtle. See, the US has a clear way of reaching out and touching someone via air to surface missile from a predator drone. This doesn't work in a crowded city in the middle of an allied country.

Somebody suddenly falling ill with inexplicable symptoms? That can happen anywhere.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26942805 - 09/18/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Were going in circles again and this is critical, let's get something straight everything that I say isn't bullshit and everything that you say isn't bullshit but there's been A LOT of poisoned activists, journalists, dissidents etc. That is well documented.  First let's establish they dont poison people unless they think they can get away without proof they did it



I understand that.  Just like lots of Hillary supporters die.  Without proof of who did it.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
that being said there's still a long history of critics of put in disappearing being put in gulags and poisonings.



Maybe you didn't know this, but the gulags ended after Stalin.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
The suspected poisoning of Russia's best-known opposition leader Alexey Navalny is the latest to happen to a long line of Kremlin opponents.



As I asked before, why do they go after Navalny instead of Putin's real threats?

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
The Kremlin, as it has with Navalny’s case, has denied any involvement but poison has long been a weapon used by the Russian security services and employed by the Soviet Union under president Vladimir Putin.

Before Navalny, a long history of Russian poisoningsPoison has long been a weapon of the Russian security services



Putin critic remains in coma.



That's an old article.  He's came out of his coma on 7 Sep.  Yet another failed "poisoning" by one of the worlds deadliest nerve agents.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
The Kremlin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Monday told reporters he disagreed there was a “trend” of Kremlin opponents being poisoned.

"You’ll agree that in many country in the world, everyday a lot of poisonings happen,” Peskov said, saying it was necessary to look at every case individually.



Yes, I do agree with this.

The rest of your article does absolutely nothing to prove the poisoning, only to point out how scary things were under Stalin in the USSR nearly a century ago, hoping you'll still be scared today.

Then pointing out how the husband of a member of pussy riot got ill.  Why poison the husband of a member of a member of Pussy Riot? (and that was yet another failed "poisoning")

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
The Charité hospital treating Navalny has said its analysis showed he is suffering from poisoning from cholinesterase inhibitors, chemicals that belong to a very broad group of substances ranging from pesticides and medication to military grade nerve agents, that includes Novichok.



They forgot to mention it is also used in the treatment of diabetes and even dementia.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Dan Kaszeta, a chemical and biological weapons expert and the author of a book on nerve agents, "Toxic", told ABC News on Tuesday that without knowing what the substance was for now it was impossible to say if whatever had poisoned Navalny had been developed in a sophisticated military lab or something more commonly available.



I agree.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Andrei Soldatov, a long-time expert on the Russian security services and author of "The Compatriots," a history of Russian espionage abroad, including poisonings, said he did not believe a figure with Navalny's position in Russia could have been targeted without the Kremlin's order.



That's a joke, right?  Russia has a higher murder rate than the US, and this guy thinks it doesn't happen without Kremlin orders?  There's still a question if he was even poisoned or not.  The German (NATO) military won't share it's information.

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Don't you think it a little odd that Putin's most well known critic all of the sudden went into a coma getting sick in all the symptoms of novichok poison which is used by the Russian government? Does that really not raise any red flag for you?



Again, he's not "Putin's most well known critic" by a long shot.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante] * 1
    #26942848 - 09/18/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
No, America knows trump is not right for the nation, but if Trump can be given a second term, more damage will be done to the US, to the benefit of Russia which enjoys a weak USA,




How is Russia benefiting from Trump?  I don't see it at all.  How is the US weak? We have a $800 billion per year military budget, what's weak about that position on the global stage?

What damage did Trump do?  The Elite got even more power under Trump, that's not damage in their minds.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26942849 - 09/18/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Russia can't really  deploy its navy and shell the US coastal cities on both coasts.

It can, however, help to get Trump re-elected which does even more damage.



Yeah there's no scenario where Russia "wins" with nuclear war but they have been playing us like a fiddle since 2016 and it succeeded. We are in a position where almost half the US takes trumps word over the top scientists in the world and the other half are furious that this has become a political issue to save lives. Also I'm not going to blame Russia for this but we have seen more hatred since 2016 than I've seen in 26 years of life we've seen more riots then ever, family and friends that had no problems now hate each other. Russia damages us a lot with that alone, no bombs required.




What do US social issues have to do with Russia?  :lolwut:


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: qman]
    #26942869 - 09/18/20 05:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

^^^Great Question^^^


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: qman]
    #26942993 - 09/18/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

How is Russia benefiting from Trump?  I don't see it at all.  How is the US weak? We have a $800 billion per year military budget, what's weak about that position on the global stage?




--The federal reserve is printing dollars out the wazoo to keep the US boat, afloat :failboat:

--This devalues all dollars for all dollar holders

--The dollar is losing severe credibility as the world's reserve currency.

--More and more nations and corporations get out of the dollar

--America, taken off the world teat, suddenly finds its credit card revoked.

--ghost towns, tumble weeds and potholes.


The best way to have the world drop the dollar like a hot potato is letting Trump fuck it up more.

Yes your army is so strong, but the other America, kinda second world america, is getting bigger and bigger.

Your rich are getting richer but THE MASSES ARE GETTING POORER. If you don't see a problem with that, basic economy.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante]
    #26943010 - 09/18/20 07:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The federal reserve doesn't print money.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Enlil]
    #26943046 - 09/18/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:

And the Federal Reserve isn't controlled by Russia (nor Trump).


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26943068 - 09/18/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

I find I get better news today from Fox than MSNBC.




I think it's important to follow all parts of the spectrum. I do. But it is dangerous, because when I flip back and forth from CNN to Fox, the contradictory views of reality can trigger schizophrenic vertigo seizures.

But seriously - I'm amazed how many of my family and friends refuse to follow ANY conservative news and would not watch a single minute of the RNC. My parents only watch Brian Williams on MSNBC, and from our conversations, they often don't know about important things going on.   

The conservative commentators who strongly predicted Trumps 2016 victory should get the public's respect. Every employee at CNN, PBS, NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNBC got it wrong!


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Asante]
    #26943136 - 09/18/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
The conservative commentators who strongly predicted Trumps 2016 victory should get the public's respect. Every employee at CNN, PBS, NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNBC got it wrong!




Actually, almost every single one of them got it right. Statistically, Trump got the votes that were predicted, and Clinton got the votes that were predicted. It's just that with the electoral college, the votes were balanced just so that Trump still won. Within the expected margins, they were correct.

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

qman said:

How is Russia benefiting from Trump?  I don't see it at all.  How is the US weak? We have a $800 billion per year military budget, what's weak about that position on the global stage?




--The federal reserve is printing dollars out the wazoo to keep the US boat, afloat :failboat:

--This devalues all dollars for all dollar holders

--The dollar is losing severe credibility as the world's reserve currency.

--More and more nations and corporations get out of the dollar

--America, taken off the world teat, suddenly finds its credit card revoked.

--ghost towns, tumble weeds and potholes.


The best way to have the world drop the dollar like a hot potato is letting Trump fuck it up more.

Yes your army is so strong, but the other America, kinda second world america, is getting bigger and bigger.

Your rich are getting richer but THE MASSES ARE GETTING POORER. If you don't see a problem with that, basic economy.




It' not even that complicated. China buys our shit, Trump offers them extra cash if he gets to keep a percent. US loses.

China has a bigger navy than the US. I don't think it's true that the US is the most powerful military anymore. After all, we did get our shit kicked in by a bunch of dirt farmers.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently influencing in the election in trumps favor [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26943211 - 09/18/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

lol jist like russian collusion right?  FBI is an arm on the DNC.  Nothing they say can be trusted.

Also, what does that mean?  More canadians and Europeans flood our media with trump hate than russia.  They do more to influence and interfere in elections than anyone else.  We should seriously consider invading canada and taking them over.  If they want to BS they way they do they can put up or shuttup.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Kryptos]
    #26943214 - 09/18/20 10:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

lol bs


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently influencing in the election in trumps favor [Re: meltdowner]
    #26943220 - 09/18/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
lol jist like russian collusion right?  FBI is an arm on the DNC.  Nothing they say can be trusted.



I disagree.  I think the FBI is an arm of the establishment deep state, and so is the DNC.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently influencing in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26943224 - 09/18/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

We can just call them corrupt.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently influencing in the election in trumps favor [Re: meltdowner]
    #26943228 - 09/18/20 10:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I think that's a fair assessment.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Kryptos]
    #26943237 - 09/18/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
The conservative commentators who strongly predicted Trumps 2016 victory should get the public's respect. Every employee at CNN, PBS, NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNBC got it wrong!




Actually, almost every single one of them got it right. Statistically, Trump got the votes that were predicted, and Clinton got the votes that were predicted. It's just that with the electoral college, the votes were balanced just so that Trump still won. Within the expected margins, they were correct.

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

qman said:

How is Russia benefiting from Trump?  I don't see it at all.  How is the US weak? We have a $800 billion per year military budget, what's weak about that position on the global stage?




--The federal reserve is printing dollars out the wazoo to keep the US boat, afloat :failboat:

--This devalues all dollars for all dollar holders

--The dollar is losing severe credibility as the world's reserve currency.

--More and more nations and corporations get out of the dollar

--America, taken off the world teat, suddenly finds its credit card revoked.

--ghost towns, tumble weeds and potholes.


The best way to have the world drop the dollar like a hot potato is letting Trump fuck it up more.

Yes your army is so strong, but the other America, kinda second world america, is getting bigger and bigger.

Your rich are getting richer but THE MASSES ARE GETTING POORER. If you don't see a problem with that, basic economy.




It' not even that complicated. China buys our shit, Trump offers them extra cash if he gets to keep a percent. US loses.





Trump does what?  :lolwut:


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: qman]
    #26943248 - 09/18/20 10:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
It' not even that complicated. China buys our shit, Trump offers them extra cash if he gets to keep a percent. US loses.




Trump does what?  :lolwut:



You beat me to the question.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26943272 - 09/18/20 10:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Trump makes sure that the trade deficit increases for a quick kickback at Mar-A-Lago.

What, do you have evidence that the trade deficit decreased?


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Kryptos]
    #26943295 - 09/18/20 10:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

lol get outa here thats ridiculous i hope youre joking

Gnite


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: meltdowner]
    #26943302 - 09/18/20 10:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not joking, the US just lost a lot of jobs, that's about it.

See, it;s not really worth investing in the US anymore. We've prove we're bipolar. the US needs to take their thorazine and go to sleep for a little bit while the adults figure out what needs to be done.


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Kryptos]
    #26943324 - 09/18/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Trump makes sure that the trade deficit increases for a quick kickback at Mar-A-Lago.



:lolwut:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26943329 - 09/18/20 11:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

What, you got evidence that the trade deficit decreased? Or that Ivanka didn;t get a few more patents?

Try again, king of make believe.

:lolwut:

:huxleyfacepalm:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26943353 - 09/18/20 11:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
It' not even that complicated. China buys our shit, Trump offers them extra cash if he gets to keep a percent. US loses.
.
.
.
Trump makes sure that the trade deficit increases for a quick kickback at Mar-A-Lago.



:lolwut:



What, you got evidence that the trade deficit decreased? Or that Ivanka didn;t get a few more patents?

Try again, king of make believe.



You're the one that made the claim Trump is getting kickbacks for the trade deficit increasing, so burden of proof is on you to prove that China is giving him "a quick kickback at Mar-A-Lago" or Ivanka is getting "a few more patents" because of the trade deficit.

It sounds like make believe, but maybe you have proof?

Plus, I don't see how asking you to prove what sounds like make believe somehow makes me "king of make believe"?


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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26943889 - 09/19/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: FBI chief testifies that Russia is currently interfering in the election in trumps favor [Re: Kryptos]
    #26943942 - 09/19/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not saying China didn't grant trademarks or provide business to Mar-A-Lago.  I'm saying where's your evidence they only did it because Trump gave them a higher trade surplus?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (09/19/20 11:40 AM)


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