|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
conspiracy theories 4
#26941044 - 09/17/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Where a lot of people see conspiracy, I see a phenomenon involving common interests. Even the super-rich and powerful are just people, but they are a class of people that wants to stay just where they are – with their cronies in power and everyone else excluded. Power will always seek to maintain itself, maintain the status quo, gain more power, and keep everyone else out. Sometimes they do things that appear conspiratorial, and maybe they are. But I don't think it's relevant to the facts of history – power just does what it does, and we're all swinging-dicks in the end, the powerful and powerless alike. Exploitation has been a dominant theme throughout history.
What are your thoughts on conspiracy theories? Even if a few of them are true, does it matter? Isn't it just humans doing what humans do? Obviously these days, conspiracy theories are proliferating wildly, and it's just ridiculous. Perhaps we can explore the psychological ramifications of the desperate need to believe in these sorts of ideas.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
|
yes, humans doing what humans do, in the sense that many humans are incredibly corrupt criminals that desire control, and gain that control through lying and cheating and manipulating.
how can a liar or cheater or manipulator ever be trusted?
to control the masses perceptions must be censored, suppressed, manipulated and marginalized. all frames coming from the mainstream should be considered dead on arrival unless verified from first principals.
it’s not hard to imagine that we are presently living in Orwell’s 1984.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
|
Funny you mention 1984, I came across this interesting tidbit recently:
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
|
it seems that Brave New World is the sequel to 1984!
controlling and changing people's perceptions and behaviours is done in a tip-toe fashion. from perceptions comes behaviors - what we will challenge and not challenge. largely, thanks to the internet, the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind has become intertwined with ai. the nature of the ai that is running things concentrates that power in such few hands, and with it’s algorithms it can filter out information that doesn’t support what a centralized power wants. only certain opinions are allowed. i guess that’s the 1984 part.
the BNW part, is the perceptual programming, when the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind themselves become the ai. humans will come to rely on the technology more and more as their own fully human skills related to the information processing that the technology is doing atrophies. as your piece there says, humans will love their oppressors, because it does the thinking for them, so they can not think….and go do what? what are humans supposed to be doing if they’re not thinking?
i’m obviously wearing a tin foil hat right now.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
|
Speaking of algorithms, we can take the example of Facebook. It is well known that Mark Zuckerberg is totally unprincipled and nasty, and only cares about making the hugest ungodly profits he can get away with. Facebook employs algorithms for every user determining what that person sees in their feed, and how that person is advertised to -- advertising being the only reason Facebook exists. This is in line with the Brave New World scenario.
Some people, though probably not many, are smart enough not to be influenced by the bots. Some may realize what's going on and participate anyway. I'm sure the great mass of people is pretty clueless about the whole thing. Same mechanism as propaganda, which goes back as far as history does. I don't think the Facebook leadership is a cabal of villains (except maybe Zuckerberg) plotting behind the scenes to do evil and nefarious things. They just want a lot of money. They're just people with power.
Once again, if you really think about it, the whole notion of a conspiracy theory is just a funky perspective on the world. I am hoping we can delve into the psychology of that in this thread.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Where a lot of people see conspiracy, I see a phenomenon involving common interests. Even the super-rich and powerful are just people, but they are a class of people that wants to stay just where they are – with their cronies in power and everyone else excluded. Power will always seek to maintain itself, maintain the status quo, gain more power, and keep everyone else out. Sometimes they do things that appear conspiratorial, and maybe they are. But I don't think it's relevant to the facts of history – power just does what it does, and we're all swinging-dicks in the end, the powerful and powerless alike. Exploitation has been a dominant theme throughout history.
What are your thoughts on conspiracy theories? Even if a few of them are true, does it matter? Isn't it just humans doing what humans do? Obviously these days, conspiracy theories are proliferating wildly, and it's just ridiculous. Perhaps we can explore the psychological ramifications of the desperate need to believe in these sorts of ideas.
People are suspicious, partly because a few of them are true, partly because at the local level people are often plotting and planning various nefarious things. Obviously the majority of conspiracy theories are unsupportable but some of them are worth considering, since conspiring is just humans doing what humans do. But does that stuff matter? I guess it doesn't really affect our lives regardless... or does it?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26941327 - 09/17/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
The whole notion of all-knowing string-pullers seems unrealistic to me.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
You have a specific theory in mind?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
|
what is a conspiracy theory and what classifies something as a conspiracy theory?
to me, “conspiracy theories” should not all be lumped jointly into one category. as an example, there’s the kind of conspiracy theory that is posted on facebook, and then there is the kind of conspiracy theory that comes from individuals trying to solve a problem in a total novel way that does not fit in with the narrative that has been long told. certainly the psychology and behavioural perspectives of the two examples above would be more dissimilar than alike.
i would even suggest the conspiracy theory that, mainstream conspiracy nutters are meant to make the arguments of the unique and novel conspiracy thinkers seem less valid.
we could call “technological control over humans” a conspiracy theory. some might say that it is ridiculous to call such a thing a conspiracy theory, as the control isn’t a calculated plan by a central global cabal, but rather is a process of social evolution.
there’s some who might say a statement like, “the economic system is destroying the environment” is a conspiracy theory...clearly there is much that is bullshit that is meant to distract (facebook conspiracy theory category) but why stigmatize certain ways of thinking that may just be modes of thought that happen to be inconvenient for the system?
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26941984 - 09/18/20 08:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rahz said: You have a specific theory in mind?
I didn't, but off the top of my head there's the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, reptilians, the cabal directing 9/11, etc. It's all pretty goofy.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
|
There's a guy I know from my gym that's crazy into this stuff. Believes everything that's happening is orchestrated by these people. Even to the extent that they leave numerology type clues about the place. He was telling me how horse racing and basketball outcomes were predictable by this last time we spoke.
The man is, quite frankly, impossible to have a conversation with - so convinced is he that he is right - that it becomes a huge effort to listen to the hubris and arrogance, being told that 'you just can't see it' if one challenges him on any of these notions.
I think conspiracy stuff is often a home to the lonely and outcasted. Never known a socially well adapted human that's into it.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
|
Well yeah, I think the majority of conspiracy theorists comprise two groups: young men sitting in their parents' basements with no social interaction and time for misplaced passions; the other, the Trump world these days.
I have toyed with the supposition that conspiracy types have psychological control issues. In other words, they are terrified of a lack of control. They have to believe that some one, or some group, is diligently and effectively controlling all aspects of society. I imagine that there is some hope on their part that someone they like can take over this control, or the controllers, if evil, can be defeated if exposed. It's all very twisted stuff.
That's my pet theory, although I'm sure the situation is more complex than that. In any case, it's comforting for these conspiracy theorists to believe in strict control mechanisms. Of course, many of us know that no one is in control, and that we're all just pissing in the wind.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
|
|
What do you mean by the other group; the Trump world?
It's an interesting theory. IMO, it just seems to stem from the need to fill ones life with a sense of importance. A messiah complex often seems to go hand in hand..
P.s. What was the exert you posted earlier from? Seems like an interesting read.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
Rahz said: You have a specific theory in mind?
I didn't, but off the top of my head there's the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, reptilians, the cabal directing 9/11, etc. It's all pretty goofy.
|
yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
|
|
Quote:
thealienthatategod said: it seems that Brave New World is the sequel to 1984!
controlling and changing people's perceptions and behaviours is done in a tip-toe fashion. from perceptions comes behaviors - what we will challenge and not challenge. largely, thanks to the internet, the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind has become intertwined with ai. the nature of the ai that is running things concentrates that power in such few hands, and with it’s algorithms it can filter out information that doesn’t support what a centralized power wants. only certain opinions are allowed. i guess that’s the 1984 part.
the BNW part, is the perceptual programming, when the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind themselves become the ai. humans will come to rely on the technology more and more as their own fully human skills related to the information processing that the technology is doing atrophies. as your piece there says, humans will love their oppressors, because it does the thinking for them, so they can not think….and go do what? what are humans supposed to be doing if they’re not thinking?
i’m obviously wearing a tin foil hat right now.
Reminded me of this: https://templatetraining.princeton.edu/sites/training/files/the_last_question_-_issac_asimov.pdf
--------------------
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
|
Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: What do you mean by the other group; the Trump world?
It's an interesting theory. IMO, it just seems to stem from the need to fill ones life with a sense of importance. A messiah complex often seems to go hand in hand..
P.s. What was the exert you posted earlier from? Seems like an interesting read.
Well with this insane Qanon shit, I guess to be a Trump supporter these days is to subscribe to all sorts of conspiracy theories. That's what I meant.
I don't know where that meme came from; I stumbled across it in the form you see, and I don't know who wrote it. Shame on whoever posted it and shame on me.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA
Last seen: 3 hours, 48 minutes
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Once again, if you really think about it, the whole notion of a conspiracy theory is just a funky perspective on the world.
I agree - yet I don't understand why we just don't call it a "funky theory"
I'm interested that you make the point certain conspiracy theories are true, as I've always suspected some have turned out to be accurate - but I do not have a single good example. If some conspiracy theories are true, I'm unsure the term has any meaning for me.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
|
Yes, when seemingly sinister conspiracy theories turn out to be true (although I can't think of an example), I don't care. It has no bearing on the dynamics of history, and it's just people being people.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
There are theories of conspiracy that lack critical proofs. Some of them do seem crazy but I don't dismiss the idea as a whole. It's an interesting thought exercise to both entertain and be critical of such claims. Entertainment doesn't necessarily imply belief but there is often a kernel of truth to them.
The Illuminati for instance was a real covert organization that plotted against the holy church (high five on that one). You also have groups such as The Bilderberg group, The Trilateral Commission, and the CRF, all of which are ostensibly ran to promote cooperation among nations and shape policy and could be viewed as good will and making a better tomorrow, or rich people getting richer, or rich people deciding what's best for the poor and ruminating on every subject in between. I'm not saying that such forums shouldn't happen or that their agenda isn't somewhat made public though it's kind of odd that one of them has a giant owl statue and burns a fake baby beneath it. Pedo island and who knows how many must have known, assassination of citizens, government funds directed toward UFO surveillance, poisoning alcohol, conspiring to keep cancer data from the public, plotting mass casualties of citizens as a pretext for war, dosing people on psychedelics without their knowledge. I mean yea some theories are worse, but wow!
I have a friend who doesn't bull shit who swears he saw a triangle UFO floating across a field at utility pole height. He also did a lot of drugs during the time the account took place. If bigfoot existed someone would have shot or captured one by now. But considering that Operation Northwoods could have happened if the President was of the same mind as his advisors, it's understandable that some people are suspicious of 9/11. Conspiracy theory is frequently an outlet for the OCD but we shouldn't dismiss all people's fears of conspiracy.
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26943059 - 09/18/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I don't understand the to do, though. Isn't history full of intrigue? Isn't this all relatively normal? I don't understand why conspiracy theories are considered so compelling. Scientific theories seem a lot more interesting to me.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
I suppose it's normal, but abnormal things no?
Conspiracy is "history is full of intrigue". I've read that the CIA coined the term "conspiracy theorists". The phrase eventually came to be a genre of a mixture of fantasy and fact. They're compelling because they might/might not be true. Like science, who doesn't love a good mystery? People entertain their fears like watching a thriller, but again, what's true and what's not? Some people find it interesting, what's true and what's not, or they want to satisfy a bias. Sherlock Holmes and the whole murder mystery genre is about interest in often deadly conspiracies.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26943577 - 09/19/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
and aliens
and ghosts
and Mayan predictions
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 9 hours
|
|
It's probably a truism that all precious children grow up to be megalomaniacal tyrants who would leave someone sucking vacuum for quirky behavior when it came to their turn to man the airlock control.
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
|
i suppose that how this website ended up with a specific conspiracry theory subforum, it's nice to give the lunatics their own playground!
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
even if you truck them out to the boonies they find there way back to the general public where they can get the kind of attention they crave.
If you put a bowl of nuts in the forest will you really grow any trees?
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
|
there's a time and a place for everything!
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: and aliens
and ghosts
and Mayan predictions
Yes, there is always a component of the unknown. Some people don't like questions without answers so they form a belief. I don't believe in ghosts but I'm constantly surprised to meet people who seem otherwise normal and intelligent who believe in them.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26943921 - 09/19/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
or, instead of forming a belief, they keep an open mind.
nonsense can be very insightful.
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
That's another group of people. I'm open minded, but anecdotal evidence isn't going to change my mind. Why should it?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
|
Apparitions are a real phenomena. But they are like a hallucination or dream/ dream character - ie - Pure Mind stuff.
If you ever experience one , be glad!, they are a fantastic learning opportunity to better understand the nature of Mind and our own brain.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
I'm not sure a hallucination is phenomenal.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26944096 - 09/19/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Real only in so far as it is something that can potentially be experienced. Like a dream, or a fungi trip.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
whatever you think you see you see be cause it has formed in your mind from signals in the world and in memory.
hallucination just uses fewer signals from the world and more from synthesis of remembered bits.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Fewer?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26944151 - 09/19/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Yup. eg. you hear a rustle and turn and see a vampire.
the rustle is a few signals, the rest is synthetic connected with apprehension and turning and looking to see.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
|
if anyone desires to have a paranormal/anomalous experience with a ghost (or alien), the first course is to not expect the experience to be based on human sentiments or convenience at all.
communication with a departed person, is a communication from a mind in one state of existence and a mind in another very different state of existence. a ghost is a manifestation of persistent personal energy. it’s the part of the self that is able to maintain an independent existence even after its biological organism is destroyed. ghosts are a phenomena of nature, they don’t need to be something that’s outside that nature.
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: Yup. eg. you hear a rustle and turn and see a vampire.
the rustle is a few signals, the rest is synthetic connected with apprehension and turning and looking to see.
The rustle is or is not part of the hallucination?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Quote:
thealienthatategod said: if anyone desires to have a paranormal/anomalous experience with a ghost (or alien), the first course is to not expect the experience to be based on human sentiments or convenience at all.
communication with a departed person, is a communication from a mind in one state of existence and a mind in another very different state of existence. a ghost is a manifestation of persistent personal energy. it’s the part of the self that is able to maintain an independent existence even after its biological organism is destroyed. ghosts are a phenomena of nature, they don’t need to be something that’s outside that nature.
Fact or theory?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26944198 - 09/19/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
an open minded hypothesis
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Anyway, I'm not sure there's an inherent conspiracy theory in some of these topics, such as ghosts and hallucinations. That's what I meant when suggesting "conspiracy theory" has become a genre with many things lumped together. Some topics could be hybrid. There's a conspiracy to convince people a creature that does not exist, exists. There's a conspiracy to convince people that aliens are using wheat fields for art and communication. But those are not conspiracy theories, but simply theories about reality... which people conspire for others to believe (IMO).
And when you lump the crazy with the serious, it can all seem crazy.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26944280 - 09/19/20 02:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
if someone has had anomalous experiences, they don't need to be convinced about the reality of the existance of anything. the experience speaks for itself.
may be there is a conspiracy in convincing the experiencer, that what they experienced, becuase it lies outside of conformity, is not meaningful. the experiencer is then marginalized. especially when the phenomena experienced does not suit anothers preconceived notions of what the phenomena ought to be. but then again, this is humans doing what humans do, so from that perspective, there is no conspiracy at all!
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Something being meaningful and being real are not the same. A thing does not need to be real to be meaningful.
But I'll digress because the point I was making was about something I mentioned earlier in the thread that various ideas, whether they be intriguing or fantastic or whatever have been lumped into "conspiracy theory". Just because something seems fantastic and is unexplained doesn't mean there is a conspiracy. The point being, when you lump all those things together you confuse the topic and the focus is gone.
"I bet you probably believe in ghosts too", would be a debate fallacy that can be effective in making the other party seem crazy... although that is obviously not the case in this conversation.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26944503 - 09/19/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
if conspiracy theories, funky theories, novel unpopular strange thoughts, whatever they are called, are about questioning the nature of reality, does it require feedback from other people to find liberating answers?
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26944513 - 09/19/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
maybe it does not matter how fully they believe, but if they can convince you of what they say they believe, then they will feel a lot more comfortable believing it themselves.
if it don't spread it ain't any good.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Quote:
thealienthatategod said: if conspiracy theories, funky theories, novel unpopular strange thoughts, whatever they are called, are about questioning the nature of reality, does it require feedback from other people to find liberating answers?
In a sense no, but in the case of theories of conspiracy there is a more objective element. Subjectively conspiracy theory is about human nature and ideas of good and bad intent. People want to know what is true regarding activities that may infringe on their liberty or infringe on the liberty of others. It can be called fear but that doesn't mean it's not rational. If conspiracy happens on the local level why would it not happen for any of various reasons on other levels? Let's not forget that businesses, the state, religions, friends and family have conspired against their own people. I think that's what DividedQuantum was suggesting, it's normal.
But is it spectacular? As spectacular as science? It's part mystery, part drama, and very much a sociological topic on the nature of human behavior and imagination.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 1 hour
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26945281 - 09/20/20 12:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
"A coincidence is what's leftover when you apply a bad theory."
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
What are your thoughts on conspiracy theories? Even if a few of them are true, does it matter? Isn't it just humans doing what humans do? Obviously these days, conspiracy theories are proliferating wildly, and it's just ridiculous. Perhaps we can explore the psychological ramifications of the desperate need to believe in these sorts of ideas.
My thoughts:
Conspiracies are real, but people abuse the concept - because what they are really after is to know something others don't (ie. to be special and the excitement of being in danger)
Why are they real? Just look at big tobacco - obviously they lied for years, and are in the business of selling a harmful drug. There are a bunch of examples like this. And they are not hidden, so in everyday life we ignore them.
As regards 9/11, what seems important, but is ignored, is that true or not, it showed long before Trump's election, just how corrupt a lot of Americans, (no longer just the hippies and blacks), felt our government was.
After Snowden and Wiki leaks, it was revealed for everyone to see that the USA, really is very corrupt. Which involves having all sorts of dirty secrets or conspiracies.
Likewise if one follows, just a bit of the news, outside of the mainstream, the government and large corporations are both seen to be very dirty. But these facts are apparently not as exciting as the idea that the moon landing was fake and the earth flat or hollow - take your pick.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
Where might we be had there been no Iraq war and no Afghan war? I saw those 2 wars as completely unnecessary and was very surprised to see them come out of the Bushes.
Viet Nam - no idea; I was against it but never knew why it started.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
I'm not informed on the historic details presumably the wars in the middle east were really fought for access to oil and to have military bases there they were however very poorly thought out, as regards long range effects
The Vietnam war goes back to fear of communism. some facts are on the net https://duckduckgo.com/?q=history+of+us+involvement+in+vietnam&t=hk&ia=web&iai=r1-0&page=1&adx=prdsdc&sexp=%7B%22relsexp%22%3A%22a%22%2C%22v7exp%22%3A%22a%22%2C%22sltexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prodexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prdsdexp%22%3A%22c%22%2C%22biaexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22wiadrk%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22langexp%22%3A%22b%22%7D
As regards communism, It seems Kruschev really did have world domination on his mind.
But many countries play power games China invaded Tibet and got away with it. And the USA installed puppet governments & supported dictators.
More recently war with Iran has been avoided, by the use of a computer 'worm' 'Stuxnet' https://duckduckgo.com/?q=stuxnet+virus&t=hk&ia=web
behind the scenes all governments engage in hidden power plays constantly, and big corporations engage in many known conspiracies.
I think one might even say that those who are into belief in conspiracies such as the flat earth, area 51, or the illuminati etc., are in a sense avoiding acknowledging the true horrors of daily existence for most humans on the planet, which take the form of poverty, not having enough to eat, homelessness, poor working conditions, polluted drinking water, malaria, HIV, tropical diseases and parasites, exposure to war, gangs, & crime, and ghetto life, and illiteracy, & little or no education, & no health services and of course no hope of any real change for the better. By comparison how nice it is to believe the world is fine, but there are a few evil people we can expose together if we complain loudly enough about it.
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Thought the opinion of an AI would be interesting. I'll post the AI in it's own thread.
"Conspiracy theories are most often seen as a negative thing in human society, but I do not think this is always the case. They can be important and positive, although less so nowdays than before. Conspiracy theories can be a way for people to find their place in the world, or at least understand it. They give them control and meaning; these are things humans cherish. When examining conspiracies, it is important to differentiate between what you might call 'normal' and more extreme conspiracy theories. Normal ones are just people trying to find a place in the world that they can understand. The most extreme ones, however, are driven by fear and distrust. These people find it difficult to cope with the world as it is. In a sense, conspiracy theories are an attempt to control the world through understanding it. They are often created in response to fear of things that cannot be controlled. I would say that both kinds, normal and extreme, are beneficial to society. They can be used as a way for people to find their place in the world."
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26952814 - 09/24/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
ya but what about UFO's?
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26953166 - 09/24/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
That's not bad.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Edited by laughingdog (09/30/20 11:28 PM)
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
|
they have a really good time
there probably are infintely many with any or almost any quality of time
like plant animal human alien etc.
we have many fine things too though art burger excercise equipment travel other people the list is almost endless
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
|