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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
    #26944280 - 09/19/20 02:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

if someone has had anomalous experiences, they don't need to be convinced about the reality of the existance of anything.  the experience speaks for itself.

may be there is a conspiracy in convincing the experiencer, that what they experienced, becuase it lies outside of conformity, is not meaningful.  the experiencer is then marginalized. especially when the phenomena experienced does not suit anothers preconceived notions of what the phenomena ought to be.  but then again, this is humans doing what humans do, so from that perspective, there is no conspiracy at all!


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: conspiracy theories [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26944332 - 09/19/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Something being meaningful and being real are not the same. A thing does not need to be real to be meaningful.

But I'll digress because the point I was making was about something I mentioned earlier in the thread that various ideas, whether they be intriguing or fantastic or whatever have been lumped into "conspiracy theory". Just because something seems fantastic and is unexplained doesn't mean there is a conspiracy. The point being, when you lump all those things together you confuse the topic and the focus is gone.

"I bet you probably believe in ghosts too", would be a debate fallacy that can be effective in making the other party seem crazy... although that is obviously not the case in this conversation.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
    #26944503 - 09/19/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

if conspiracy theories, funky theories, novel unpopular strange thoughts, whatever they are called, are about questioning the nature of reality, does it require feedback from other people to find liberating answers?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
    #26944513 - 09/19/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

maybe it does not matter how fully they believe, but if they can convince you of what they say they believe, then they will feel a lot more comfortable believing it themselves.

if it don't spread it ain't any good.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26944636 - 09/19/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
if conspiracy theories, funky theories, novel unpopular strange thoughts, whatever they are called, are about questioning the nature of reality, does it require feedback from other people to find liberating answers?




In a sense no, but in the case of theories of conspiracy there is a more objective element. Subjectively conspiracy theory is about human nature and ideas of good and bad intent. People want to know what is true regarding activities that may infringe on their liberty or infringe on the liberty of others. It can be called fear but that doesn't mean it's not rational. If conspiracy happens on the local level why would it not happen for any of various reasons on other levels? Let's not forget that businesses, the state, religions, friends and family have conspired against their own people. I think that's what DividedQuantum was suggesting, it's normal.

But is it spectacular? As spectacular as science? It's part mystery, part drama, and very much a sociological topic on the nature of human behavior and imagination.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
    #26945281 - 09/20/20 12:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

"A coincidence is what's leftover when you apply a bad theory."


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: DividedQuantum] * 2
    #26945735 - 09/20/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:


What are your thoughts on conspiracy theories? Even if a few of them are true, does it matter? Isn't it just humans doing what humans do? Obviously these days, conspiracy theories are proliferating wildly, and it's just ridiculous. Perhaps we can explore the psychological ramifications of the desperate need to believe in these sorts of ideas.




My thoughts:

Conspiracies are real, but people abuse the concept - because what they are really after is to know something others don't (ie. to be special and the excitement of being in danger)

Why are they real? Just look at big tobacco - obviously they lied for years, and are in the business of selling a harmful drug. There are a bunch of examples like this. And they are not hidden, so in everyday life we ignore them.

As regards 9/11, what seems important, but is ignored, is that true or not, it showed long before Trump's election, just how corrupt a lot of Americans, (no longer just the hippies and blacks), felt our government was.

After Snowden and Wiki leaks, it was revealed for everyone to see that the USA, really is very corrupt. Which involves having all sorts of dirty secrets or conspiracies.

Likewise if one follows, just a bit of the news, outside of the mainstream, the government and large corporations are both seen to be very dirty. But these facts are apparently not as exciting as the idea that the moon landing was fake and the earth flat or hollow - take your pick.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: laughingdog]
    #26945971 - 09/20/20 10:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Where might we be had there been no Iraq war and no Afghan war?
I saw those 2 wars as completely unnecessary and was very surprised to see them come out of the Bushes.

Viet Nam - no idea; I was against it but never knew why it started.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26946042 - 09/20/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not informed on the historic details
presumably the wars in the middle east were really fought
for access to oil and to have military bases there
they were however very poorly thought out, as regards long range effects

The Vietnam war goes back to fear of communism.
some facts are on the net
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=history+of+us+involvement+in+vietnam&t=hk&ia=web&iai=r1-0&page=1&adx=prdsdc&sexp=%7B%22relsexp%22%3A%22a%22%2C%22v7exp%22%3A%22a%22%2C%22sltexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prodexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prdsdexp%22%3A%22c%22%2C%22biaexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22wiadrk%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22langexp%22%3A%22b%22%7D

As regards communism,
It seems Kruschev really did have world domination on his mind.

But many countries play power games
China invaded Tibet and got away with it.
And the USA installed puppet governments & supported dictators.

More recently war with Iran has been avoided, by the use of a computer 'worm'
'Stuxnet'
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=stuxnet+virus&t=hk&ia=web

behind the scenes all governments engage in hidden power plays constantly,
and big corporations engage in many known conspiracies.

I think one might even say that those who are into belief in conspiracies such as the flat earth, area 51, or the illuminati etc., are in a sense avoiding acknowledging the true horrors of daily existence for most humans on the planet, which take the form of poverty, not having enough to eat, homelessness, poor working conditions, polluted drinking water, malaria, HIV, tropical diseases and parasites, exposure to war, gangs, & crime, and ghetto life, and illiteracy, & little or no education, & no health services and of course no hope of any real change for the better.
By comparison how nice it is to believe the world is fine, but there are a few evil people we can expose together if we complain loudly enough about it.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: laughingdog]
    #26952736 - 09/24/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Thought the opinion of an AI would be interesting. I'll post the AI in it's own thread.

"Conspiracy theories are most often seen as a negative thing in human society, but I do not think this is always the case. They can be important and positive, although less so nowdays than before.
Conspiracy theories can be a way for people to find their place in the world, or at least understand it. They give them control and meaning; these are things humans cherish.
When examining conspiracies, it is important to differentiate between what you might call 'normal' and more extreme conspiracy theories. Normal ones are just people trying to find a place in the world that they can understand.
The most extreme ones, however, are driven by fear and distrust. These people find it difficult to cope with the world as it is.
In a sense, conspiracy theories are an attempt to control the world through understanding it. They are often created in response to fear of things that cannot be controlled.
I would say that both kinds, normal and extreme, are beneficial to society. They can be used as a way for people to find their place in the world."


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
    #26952814 - 09/24/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

ya but what about UFO's?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
    #26953166 - 09/24/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That's not bad.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26953380 - 09/24/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



Edited by laughingdog (09/30/20 11:28 PM)


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: laughingdog]
    #26953835 - 09/25/20 03:54 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

they have a really good time

there probably are infintely many with any or almost any quality of time

like plant animal human alien etc.

we have many fine things too though art burger excercise equipment travel other people the list is almost endless


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