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DividedQuantum
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conspiracy theories 4
#26941044 - 09/17/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Where a lot of people see conspiracy, I see a phenomenon involving common interests. Even the super-rich and powerful are just people, but they are a class of people that wants to stay just where they are – with their cronies in power and everyone else excluded. Power will always seek to maintain itself, maintain the status quo, gain more power, and keep everyone else out. Sometimes they do things that appear conspiratorial, and maybe they are. But I don't think it's relevant to the facts of history – power just does what it does, and we're all swinging-dicks in the end, the powerful and powerless alike. Exploitation has been a dominant theme throughout history.
What are your thoughts on conspiracy theories? Even if a few of them are true, does it matter? Isn't it just humans doing what humans do? Obviously these days, conspiracy theories are proliferating wildly, and it's just ridiculous. Perhaps we can explore the psychological ramifications of the desperate need to believe in these sorts of ideas.
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thealienthatategod
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yes, humans doing what humans do, in the sense that many humans are incredibly corrupt criminals that desire control, and gain that control through lying and cheating and manipulating.
how can a liar or cheater or manipulator ever be trusted?
to control the masses perceptions must be censored, suppressed, manipulated and marginalized. all frames coming from the mainstream should be considered dead on arrival unless verified from first principals.
it’s not hard to imagine that we are presently living in Orwell’s 1984.
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DividedQuantum
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Funny you mention 1984, I came across this interesting tidbit recently:
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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it seems that Brave New World is the sequel to 1984!
controlling and changing people's perceptions and behaviours is done in a tip-toe fashion. from perceptions comes behaviors - what we will challenge and not challenge. largely, thanks to the internet, the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind has become intertwined with ai. the nature of the ai that is running things concentrates that power in such few hands, and with it’s algorithms it can filter out information that doesn’t support what a centralized power wants. only certain opinions are allowed. i guess that’s the 1984 part.
the BNW part, is the perceptual programming, when the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind themselves become the ai. humans will come to rely on the technology more and more as their own fully human skills related to the information processing that the technology is doing atrophies. as your piece there says, humans will love their oppressors, because it does the thinking for them, so they can not think….and go do what? what are humans supposed to be doing if they’re not thinking?
i’m obviously wearing a tin foil hat right now.
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DividedQuantum
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Speaking of algorithms, we can take the example of Facebook. It is well known that Mark Zuckerberg is totally unprincipled and nasty, and only cares about making the hugest ungodly profits he can get away with. Facebook employs algorithms for every user determining what that person sees in their feed, and how that person is advertised to -- advertising being the only reason Facebook exists. This is in line with the Brave New World scenario.
Some people, though probably not many, are smart enough not to be influenced by the bots. Some may realize what's going on and participate anyway. I'm sure the great mass of people is pretty clueless about the whole thing. Same mechanism as propaganda, which goes back as far as history does. I don't think the Facebook leadership is a cabal of villains (except maybe Zuckerberg) plotting behind the scenes to do evil and nefarious things. They just want a lot of money. They're just people with power.
Once again, if you really think about it, the whole notion of a conspiracy theory is just a funky perspective on the world. I am hoping we can delve into the psychology of that in this thread.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,227
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Where a lot of people see conspiracy, I see a phenomenon involving common interests. Even the super-rich and powerful are just people, but they are a class of people that wants to stay just where they are – with their cronies in power and everyone else excluded. Power will always seek to maintain itself, maintain the status quo, gain more power, and keep everyone else out. Sometimes they do things that appear conspiratorial, and maybe they are. But I don't think it's relevant to the facts of history – power just does what it does, and we're all swinging-dicks in the end, the powerful and powerless alike. Exploitation has been a dominant theme throughout history.
What are your thoughts on conspiracy theories? Even if a few of them are true, does it matter? Isn't it just humans doing what humans do? Obviously these days, conspiracy theories are proliferating wildly, and it's just ridiculous. Perhaps we can explore the psychological ramifications of the desperate need to believe in these sorts of ideas.
People are suspicious, partly because a few of them are true, partly because at the local level people are often plotting and planning various nefarious things. Obviously the majority of conspiracy theories are unsupportable but some of them are worth considering, since conspiring is just humans doing what humans do. But does that stuff matter? I guess it doesn't really affect our lives regardless... or does it?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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DividedQuantum
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26941327 - 09/17/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The whole notion of all-knowing string-pullers seems unrealistic to me.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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You have a specific theory in mind?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


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what is a conspiracy theory and what classifies something as a conspiracy theory?
to me, “conspiracy theories” should not all be lumped jointly into one category. as an example, there’s the kind of conspiracy theory that is posted on facebook, and then there is the kind of conspiracy theory that comes from individuals trying to solve a problem in a total novel way that does not fit in with the narrative that has been long told. certainly the psychology and behavioural perspectives of the two examples above would be more dissimilar than alike.
i would even suggest the conspiracy theory that, mainstream conspiracy nutters are meant to make the arguments of the unique and novel conspiracy thinkers seem less valid.
we could call “technological control over humans” a conspiracy theory. some might say that it is ridiculous to call such a thing a conspiracy theory, as the control isn’t a calculated plan by a central global cabal, but rather is a process of social evolution.
there’s some who might say a statement like, “the economic system is destroying the environment” is a conspiracy theory...clearly there is much that is bullshit that is meant to distract (facebook conspiracy theory category) but why stigmatize certain ways of thinking that may just be modes of thought that happen to be inconvenient for the system?
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DividedQuantum
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26941984 - 09/18/20 08:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Rahz said: You have a specific theory in mind?
I didn't, but off the top of my head there's the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, reptilians, the cabal directing 9/11, etc. It's all pretty goofy.
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Jokeshopbeard
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There's a guy I know from my gym that's crazy into this stuff. Believes everything that's happening is orchestrated by these people. Even to the extent that they leave numerology type clues about the place. He was telling me how horse racing and basketball outcomes were predictable by this last time we spoke.
The man is, quite frankly, impossible to have a conversation with - so convinced is he that he is right - that it becomes a huge effort to listen to the hubris and arrogance, being told that 'you just can't see it' if one challenges him on any of these notions.
I think conspiracy stuff is often a home to the lonely and outcasted. Never known a socially well adapted human that's into it.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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DividedQuantum
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Well yeah, I think the majority of conspiracy theorists comprise two groups: young men sitting in their parents' basements with no social interaction and time for misplaced passions; the other, the Trump world these days.
I have toyed with the supposition that conspiracy types have psychological control issues. In other words, they are terrified of a lack of control. They have to believe that some one, or some group, is diligently and effectively controlling all aspects of society. I imagine that there is some hope on their part that someone they like can take over this control, or the controllers, if evil, can be defeated if exposed. It's all very twisted stuff.
That's my pet theory, although I'm sure the situation is more complex than that. In any case, it's comforting for these conspiracy theorists to believe in strict control mechanisms. Of course, many of us know that no one is in control, and that we're all just pissing in the wind.
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Jokeshopbeard
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What do you mean by the other group; the Trump world?
It's an interesting theory. IMO, it just seems to stem from the need to fill ones life with a sense of importance. A messiah complex often seems to go hand in hand..
P.s. What was the exert you posted earlier from? Seems like an interesting read.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
Rahz said: You have a specific theory in mind?
I didn't, but off the top of my head there's the Illuminati, the Rothschilds, reptilians, the cabal directing 9/11, etc. It's all pretty goofy.
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said: it seems that Brave New World is the sequel to 1984!
controlling and changing people's perceptions and behaviours is done in a tip-toe fashion. from perceptions comes behaviors - what we will challenge and not challenge. largely, thanks to the internet, the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind has become intertwined with ai. the nature of the ai that is running things concentrates that power in such few hands, and with it’s algorithms it can filter out information that doesn’t support what a centralized power wants. only certain opinions are allowed. i guess that’s the 1984 part.
the BNW part, is the perceptual programming, when the thinking and emotional processes of the human mind themselves become the ai. humans will come to rely on the technology more and more as their own fully human skills related to the information processing that the technology is doing atrophies. as your piece there says, humans will love their oppressors, because it does the thinking for them, so they can not think….and go do what? what are humans supposed to be doing if they’re not thinking?
i’m obviously wearing a tin foil hat right now.
Reminded me of this: https://templatetraining.princeton.edu/sites/training/files/the_last_question_-_issac_asimov.pdf
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DividedQuantum
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: What do you mean by the other group; the Trump world?
It's an interesting theory. IMO, it just seems to stem from the need to fill ones life with a sense of importance. A messiah complex often seems to go hand in hand..
P.s. What was the exert you posted earlier from? Seems like an interesting read.
Well with this insane Qanon shit, I guess to be a Trump supporter these days is to subscribe to all sorts of conspiracy theories. That's what I meant.
I don't know where that meme came from; I stumbled across it in the form you see, and I don't know who wrote it. Shame on whoever posted it and shame on me.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Once again, if you really think about it, the whole notion of a conspiracy theory is just a funky perspective on the world.
I agree - yet I don't understand why we just don't call it a "funky theory"
I'm interested that you make the point certain conspiracy theories are true, as I've always suspected some have turned out to be accurate - but I do not have a single good example. If some conspiracy theories are true, I'm unsure the term has any meaning for me.
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DividedQuantum
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Yes, when seemingly sinister conspiracy theories turn out to be true (although I can't think of an example), I don't care. It has no bearing on the dynamics of history, and it's just people being people.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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There are theories of conspiracy that lack critical proofs. Some of them do seem crazy but I don't dismiss the idea as a whole. It's an interesting thought exercise to both entertain and be critical of such claims. Entertainment doesn't necessarily imply belief but there is often a kernel of truth to them.
The Illuminati for instance was a real covert organization that plotted against the holy church (high five on that one). You also have groups such as The Bilderberg group, The Trilateral Commission, and the CRF, all of which are ostensibly ran to promote cooperation among nations and shape policy and could be viewed as good will and making a better tomorrow, or rich people getting richer, or rich people deciding what's best for the poor and ruminating on every subject in between. I'm not saying that such forums shouldn't happen or that their agenda isn't somewhat made public though it's kind of odd that one of them has a giant owl statue and burns a fake baby beneath it. Pedo island and who knows how many must have known, assassination of citizens, government funds directed toward UFO surveillance, poisoning alcohol, conspiring to keep cancer data from the public, plotting mass casualties of citizens as a pretext for war, dosing people on psychedelics without their knowledge. I mean yea some theories are worse, but wow!
I have a friend who doesn't bull shit who swears he saw a triangle UFO floating across a field at utility pole height. He also did a lot of drugs during the time the account took place. If bigfoot existed someone would have shot or captured one by now. But considering that Operation Northwoods could have happened if the President was of the same mind as his advisors, it's understandable that some people are suspicious of 9/11. Conspiracy theory is frequently an outlet for the OCD but we shouldn't dismiss all people's fears of conspiracy.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: conspiracy theories [Re: Rahz]
#26943059 - 09/18/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't understand the to do, though. Isn't history full of intrigue? Isn't this all relatively normal? I don't understand why conspiracy theories are considered so compelling. Scientific theories seem a lot more interesting to me.
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