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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,319
Loc: daterapeville,USA
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Near Dylan]
#26939961 - 09/17/20 12:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Like I said I don't know, or care to know the details of the case, it sounds like a terrible situation all around with no winners and only losers. The thing with the US justice system is precedent counts for a real lot, so this previous precedent set in another state may be what does him in.
I would also like to make sure people this is informational and I make no judgement on on either the legality or morality of this individuals actions.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9] 1
#26940101 - 09/17/20 04:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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3 IN THEIndiana Supreme CourtSupreme Court Case No. 20S-CR-22 Anthony Gammons, Jr.Appellant ( Defendant below)–v–State of IndianaAppellee (Plaintiff below)Argued: March 12, 2020 | Decided: June 26, 2020Appeal from the Marion Superior Court, No. 49G06-1706-F1-21991The Honorable Mark D. Stoner, JudgeOn Petition to Transfer from the Indiana Court of Appeals,No. 18A-CR-3005Opinion by Justice MassaChief Justice Rush and Justices David, Slaughter, andGoff concur. Indiana Supreme Court | Case No. 20S-CR-22 | June 26, 2020 Page 2 of 9 Massa, Justice.At his trial for attempted murder and carrying a handgun without a license, Anthony Gammons, Jr. asserted that he acted in self-defense. According to Gammons, he feared for his and his son’s lives when he shot the intoxicated and aggressive Derek Gilbert—testifying that he knew Gilbert had a history of violence and that Gilbert had threatened him—with a gun he acknowledged he was carrying illegally. After the court instructed the jury that he could not assert self-defense if he committed a crime that was “directly and immediately related” to his confrontationwith Gilbert, t he jury found Gammons guilty.Indiana’s self-defense statute instructs that “a person is not justified in using force if the person,” among other things, “is committing . . . a crime.” Ind. Code § 35-41-3- 2. But because “literal application” of that statute can lead to absurd results, we have held that “there must be an immediate causal connection between the crime and the confrontation.” Mayes v. State, 744 N.E.2d 390, 393, 392 (Ind. 2001). Because the jury instruction used here—that a crime and confrontation need only be “related” to defeat self-defense—diluted this causal standard, and because we can’t conclude that this instructional error was harmless, we reverseand remand for a new trial.Facts and Procedural History According to his testimony, Anthony Gammons, Jr., after going to the movies and paintballing with his ten-year-old son, intended to briefly swing by his incarcerated cousin’s house during a party to make sure nothing was broken. But when he and his son pulled up to the home, Gammons saw a crowd milling about outside, including Derek Gilbert. In the decade they’d been acquainted, Gammons had come to believe that Gilbert liked to get drunk, liked to start fights, and liked to knock out, shoot at, bully, and rob people, including his own friends. And Gammonsknew that Gilbert had been previously charged with murder. So when he stepped out of his car and an intoxicated Gilbertimmediately started accosting him, Gammons was put on edge. Despite Indiana Supreme Court | Case No. 20S-CR-22 | June 26, 2020 Page 3 of 9 Gammons openly carrying a handgun and attempts by Gammons and bystanders to calm the situation, Gilbert persisted, squaring up as if to punch Gammons, pulling at his waistband, and asking if Gammons was “casket ready.” Tr. Vol. III, p.7. Gammons then drew his gun and shot at Gilbert because, as he later avowed at trial, he feared for his life and forthat of his son. But even after he was hit, Gilbert did not relent. Instead, while spinning around, Gilbert continued “aggressing” toward Gammons and reaching in his pants, “like he was grabbing for something.” Tr. Vol. III, p.8. But as soon as Gammons saw Gilbert “retreat and run away,” he“stopped shooting,” professing that he “was in shock” at how the events had unfolded.Id.After a few moments passed, Gammons calmly walked back to his car and drove off. Although he was struck six times, Gilbertsurvived.Gammons was later charged with attempted murder and carrying a handgun without a license. At his jury trial, Gammons—who conceded that he was carrying the handgun without a license—asserted that he shot Gilbert only in self-defense. Gilbert, however, disputed this explanation, testifying that he did not wantonly confront Gammons. Instead, despite repeatedly acknowledging that his memories of the incident were blurry, Gilbert surmised that the two argued when Gammons confronted him over a woman. After that brief and nonviolent quarrel subsided, Gilbert and Gammons shook hands and went their separate ways. But just as Gilbert thought the encounter was over, Gammons pulled his weapon and shot Gilbert while his back was turned.“I got shot for no reason,” claimed Gilbert.
He should have drove away when he saw gilbert at his cousin's house or called the police to report gilbert being there. But instead he caused confrontation. Also knowing gilbert was potentially aggressive Anthony's decision to confront him pretty much deletes the entire self defense argument. Preclusion. Don't go looking for trouble. And if you find trouble retreat is the first choice
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
#26940776 - 09/17/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Weren't you just calling Rittenhouse a pussy recently because he wouldn't fight at least 4 people at once after trying to run away in the first place?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Eminence] 2
#26940953 - 09/17/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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He was running away long after he should have already ran away... You're making it sound like his first chance to leave was after shooting one person dead already. He should have left long before the altercation with the first person. But you think he should have been there all along because civilians should get to protect property with guns. But what's it even matter trying to have a conversation with you. You're so intellectually dishonest you make koods sound like Abraham fucking Lincoln
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,627
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
#26940973 - 09/17/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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What's not to get here though? Said it already, but he was attacked for putting out a fucking dumpster fire that was being pushed near a gas station and the first time he shot was after he was first running away and someone started shooting as his back was turned.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Eminence] 4
#26940998 - 09/17/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh well think what you will he's going to die in prison so I'm happy
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FrancoAmerican
Yes-man


Registered: 10/21/18
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta] 7
#26941057 - 09/17/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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For a lifeguard he sure couldn’t run very fast. Also, what a bunch of irrelevant Bull Shit. Life guard, EMT, good intentions, protecting a building, whatever.
17, went somewhere he thought he was in need of a gun, he saw violence as a possible outcome. He killed people.
If he stayed home - they would be alive.
What a POS.
-------------------- Life ——>🍄🤯🍄😢🍄😆🍄😀🍄💀🤙🏼——->Death
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
#26941064 - 09/17/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: He should have left long before the altercation with the first person.
He was being chased by the ‘first person’.
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
But you think he should have been there all along because civilians should get to protect property with guns.
IMO they should, and in some cases they do get that right.
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
But what's it even matter trying to have a conversation with you. You're so intellectually dishonest you make koods sound like Abraham fucking Lincoln
you’re the one playing fast and loose with the facts.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: FrancoAmerican]
#26941069 - 09/17/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrancoAmerican said:
If he stayed home - they would be alive.
What a POS.
how do you know?
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] 2
#26941076 - 09/17/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26941118 - 09/17/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let's just legalize all murder because, for all we know, the victim might have gotten hit by a bus the next day, anyway!
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


Registered: 09/12/08
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#26941152 - 09/17/20 06:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Drugs too. Mmmmmmmm. Drugs AND murder, legalized.
Yes.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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FrancoAmerican
Yes-man


Registered: 10/21/18
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] 3
#26941215 - 09/17/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
FrancoAmerican said:
If he stayed home - they would be alive.
What a POS.
how do you know?
I know with a 100% certainty if he had stayed home he would not have murdered anyone in the neighboring state.
-------------------- Life ——>🍄🤯🍄😢🍄😆🍄😀🍄💀🤙🏼——->Death
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] 1
#26941233 - 09/17/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
FrancoAmerican said:
If he stayed home - they would be alive.
What a POS.
how do you know?
How do we know those people that tackled an active shooter after he got mad and shot someone at point blank wouldn't have died if he didn't come there with a gun and proclaim on social media that he would use that gun to "defend the buisnisees with that gun"? Seriously. Let me explain if that 17 year old kid with a weapon you'd go to war with drove to a riot to protect with his gun, if he stayed home there wouldn't have been an altercation with a vigilante because there would've Ben no vigilante. He decided to be the police,judge, jury and executioner if someone saw him as the threat he was going to use his gun that night. He heard trumps rhetoric and just like when he viscously beat some girl for having a disagreement with her he took the same mentality to an active riot to get some justified killings under his belt. Property damage would've been the only thing that occurred that night. If he didn't go there as a soldier to fight with a gun no one would have died. Can't wait until he's locked up for good
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


Registered: 09/12/08
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: FrancoAmerican]
#26941239 - 09/17/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrancoAmerican said:
I know with a 100% certainty if he had stayed home he would not have murdered anyone in the neighboring state.
But he didn’t murder anyone. Video evidence backs it up.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,982
Loc: PNW
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow]
#26941243 - 09/17/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know for a fact that if the angry mob didn't attack him they would still be alive.
I know for a fact that if the angry mob stayed home they would still be alive.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: budmanman]
#26941258 - 09/17/20 07:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
budmanman said: I know for a fact that if the angry mob didn't attack him they would still be alive.
I know for a fact that if the angry mob stayed home they would still be alive.
I started to go that route but realized they don’t care about facts, what a waste of energy.
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christopera
Stranger


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow]
#26941284 - 09/17/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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They didn't kill anybody and suicide is completely legal. Nobody goes to jail for trying to get killed. But if you kill the person asking to get killed, generally in the USA (land of the free) you are going to get in trouble and likely end up in jail. Those are the facts.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: christopera]
#26941309 - 09/17/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: They didn't kill anybody and suicide is completely legal. Nobody goes to jail for trying to get killed. But if you kill the person asking to get killed, generally in the USA (land of the free) you are going to get in trouble and likely end up in jail. Those are the facts.
Well this is a new interpretation of events. Go ahead and call up the DA and explain that one to him, maybe you and him will see eye to eye.
Since when is suicide legal? Is that a Wisconsin thing?
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christopera
Stranger


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] 2
#26941340 - 09/17/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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How many people go to jail for being dead?
You guys are jerking yourselves off so hard over this case that you are willing to claim the dead people committed the crime. It’s hilarious to watch.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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