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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Good Deeds * 1
    #26935011 - 09/14/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

What is the worse crime, to force good deeds by way of a third party or to refuse to offer good deeds to a third party in need?

Feels like the ends are in competition with the means.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26935062 - 09/14/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

between coercion and neglect, the differences are as follows:
coercion is a form of enslavement which is a serious problem.
while neglect is emotionally numbing and can lead to serious problems.

but this is all too general, but in a general way, I think the coercion is harder to bear when all things are equal.

however,
when things are not equal, such as when the 1% controls more than 99% of wealth, then forcing higher taxes on the rich is a good form of correction not anything like enslavement.

neglect, however hurts everyone - both the neglector and the neglectee.
I think the neglectful person needs to awaken to the spirit within themselves so that they can have empathy with the feelings of others.
unfortunately since it comes from within, it cannot be coerced even if one tried for the sake of making things more equitable.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26935255 - 09/14/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
when things are not equal, such as when the 1% controls more than 99% of wealth, then forcing higher taxes on the rich is a good form of correction not anything like enslavement.






See what would green light you to prefer coercion when you earlier stated that, generally speaking, coercion is the less tolerable?

Why not protest and shame The Elite in order to get desired results?


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26935270 - 09/14/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

do humans have an obligation to love their neighbor?  what is a neighbor? 

to love is to do something.  love recognizes no distinctions between people.

in the Parable of the Good Samaritan, the samaritan does not pause to consider what his duty might be.

compassion removes all limitations from obligations.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26935355 - 09/14/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

What if what you are doing is coercion?  Is it still love?  Even with good intentions such as welfare/taxing the rich for example.  Rgv seems to give it a pass from what I can tell.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26935486 - 09/14/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I can say that ill will is contraindicated in all cases, but coercion is not always ill will.
The situation prevails when deciding whether coercion is called for to correct something out of balance.
Shaming is not something I would endorse as a form of coercion, but taxation is a real thing that can be used to correct the imbalance of wealth.
while coercion falls into the general category of driving (including slave driving) and steering as in the case of an economy, Shaming falls into the general bag with bullying.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26935491 - 09/14/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
What if what you are doing is coercion?  Is it still love?  Even with good intentions such as welfare/taxing the rich for example.  Rgv seems to give it a pass from what I can tell.




love, in the case of acting compassionatly, is an unselfish concern for the welfare of another. 

it is an acceptance of responsibility. 

it does not mean doing what someone else wants, and in this case, sometimes acting in the interest of another may mean alienating them, as an individual should not be required (coerced) into surrendering their own judgement.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26935731 - 09/14/20 06:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
What is the worse crime, to force good deeds by way of a third party or to refuse to offer good deeds to a third party in need?

Feels like the ends are in competition with the means.




Sounds like you want to be a judge when you grow up, and hand out 'just' sentences.

Look up case law on child support, since you want a hierarchy of these sorts of crimes.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: laughingdog]
    #26936408 - 09/15/20 05:46 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

yeah I used to save people from being bullied in school

we can't treat others in a negative way and things like that!

what if the smell in the kitchen means something to it

I mean of course it does

but right now even the leaders are destroying the fuck out of it and we need to wake up and understand buddha and zen or true philosophy before it's too late!

:mushroom2:


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Good Deeds *DELETED* [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26936421 - 09/15/20 05:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Ferdinando

Reason for deletion: seems like it should disappear


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26936422 - 09/15/20 05:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I would say we can't afford city lights with how things are

mostly

...


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26936424 - 09/15/20 06:02 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

that's true

meditation can be encouraged and one can be in favor of it and like make it more done and broader in terms of existence and location like a push a recommendation and advice

and meditation can take care of almost everything


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: laughingdog]
    #26937095 - 09/15/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
What is the worse crime, to force good deeds by way of a third party or to refuse to offer good deeds to a third party in need?

Feels like the ends are in competition with the means.




Sounds like you want to be a judge when you grow up, and hand out 'just' sentences.

Look up case law on child support, since you want a hierarchy of these sorts of crimes.




i didn’t think Yellow Pants was saying that man ought to act in a certain way.  it seems he was just pointing out that the behaviour that we find decent in others, including good deeds, is the one that happens to be most useful to us.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26937111 - 09/15/20 01:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

you mean deeds that are good for me?


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26937165 - 09/15/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

yes, exactly.

feeling a desire to help another human is not the same thing as feeling that you ought to help - whether you want to or not.  it is dangerous to take an impulse of ones own nature, and set it as a thing to be followed at all costs.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26937342 - 09/15/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

that sounds pretty desperate


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26937587 - 09/15/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
that sounds pretty desperate




desperate for who?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26937713 - 09/15/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

an interesting case was the soldier who jumped & threw himself on top of someone who fell on subway tracks as a train was coming and rolled with them between the wheels as the train went over them both

on the one hand amazing heroism

on the other hand there was probably no thought involved
but ironically military training probably was involved

so if there is no thinking
on what 'yardstick' are 'good' and 'bad' found?
and are they necessary?
or just something self judgmental religious folks encumber themselves with.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26937804 - 09/15/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
yes, exactly.

feeling a desire to help another human is not the same thing as feeling that you ought to help - whether you want to or not.  it is dangerous to take an impulse of ones own nature, and set it as a thing to be followed at all costs.




then I said "it sounds pretty desperate"

because you said "at all costs".

never mind.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Good Deeds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26937923 - 09/15/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I’m feelin desperate :barbershreds:


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