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Hashfinger
Nippy Wiffle



Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 4,775
Loc: Georgia
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Ipomoea Identification: Help Needed!
#18677054 - 08/08/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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So I know there is, or was, a lot of confusion as to the difference in Ipomoea tricolor vs. Ipomoea violacea. For years, what people were thinking was Ipomoea violacea (heavenly blues, pearly gates, etc.) is actually tricolor. There are tons of genetic variations within these two species, and perhaps they were never distinct. Cross pollination could very readily create "new" varieties right before your eyes. However, I see a few notable distinctions on my vines that I feel are worth sharing.
First, lets look at a typical Heavenly Blue. The package of seeds these were grown from stated the strain was Ipomoea purpurea, but I know that strain, and the seed shape as well as leaf shape and color, also the color of the blossom is totally off. These are Ipomoea tricolor.
 (notice the details of the flower in this early phase)
 (typical heart-shaped leaf style)

Next is the species in question. I was given these seeds by a local ethnobotanist, and he didn't really have much to say on the species, calling them Ipomoea tricolor as well if I recall. I believe these to possibly be the true Ipomoea violacea. Lets look at the differences from the previous strain.
  (notice the fuzzy appearance and also the small set of leaflets surrounding the bloom head)

(tri-lobed leaf)

So there are some distinct differences here... Most notably the features of the blossom, and also the fuzziness of the vine which is not seen at all on the Ipomoea tricolor (heavenly blue) strain. Are there any Ipomoea experts out there who could help out? Hope everyone is enjoying their day. Thanks!
P.S. Here is an Ipomoea pandurata flower growing wild right next to my cultivation of other species. They all get along together so nicely. Red white and blue!
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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SmOakland



Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 373
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
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Re: Ipomoea Identification: Help Needed! [Re: Hashfinger]
#18678468 - 08/08/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Look up the "biological species concept." In college I was taught that the biological species concept defines a species as "members of populations that actually or potentially interbreed and thrive in nature". Evolutionary biologists categorize organisms into taxa for ease of communication. Your question really does not matter to the average person (although I respect very much that you are curious.) There are no Ipomea experts on here. I'm sure you could easily find one on google scholar, and read endless literature debating weather or not Ipomea samples with the characteristics in your pictures/collection that you acquired from different sources fit the definition of the biological species concept, but it is not worth your time or mine. Debate will be endless because (arguably) "nature" no longer exists, and so it is impossible to tell if your samples, which most likely can hybridize, would overlap territories in "nature".
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natureguy22
Stranger
Registered: 09/12/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Ipomoea Identification: Help Needed! [Re: Hashfinger]
#26931347 - 09/12/20 07:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You are certainly upon the right track! The seeds tell all in spite of the names given! Typical morning glories are dark rounded seeds; white flowered hybrids have lighter, slightly different shaped seeds while "Heavenly Blue" and similar hybrids are larger & more elongated. Then there are the even more enlarged I. alba seeds and the most large (and very fuzzy) of them all I. carnea subs. fistulosa.
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e33
friendly


Registered: 06/01/20
Posts: 7
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Re: Ipomoea Identification: Help Needed! [Re: Hashfinger]
#26936055 - 09/14/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi, this year I've been working on keying out some of the Ipomea sp and did a thread here earlier on it
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26744888
So, I'd confirm your first ID as I. tricolor but the second is not I. violacea - more likely I. nils or I. indica. The latter is the purple one that grows all over the trees in tropical Australia and is a real pest. It's my view that the three lobed leaves are not found on I. tricolor.
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