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OfflineArchy of Aedon
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Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? *DELETED* * 1
    #26935545 - 09/14/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Archy of Aedon

Reason for deletion: erasing online presence for privacy reasons, as my life might be in danger


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InvisibleMindMeower
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon] * 1
    #26935572 - 09/14/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

From a phsyical standpoint, your being stems from the physical connections between neurons in your brain, and those will not go anywhere (and new ones get added). Psychedelics allow disruption of communications between the neurons and at sufficiently high doses complete disruption and the apparent ego death associated. It won't destroy the physical structure that was there before and once effects wear out things will function properly again, the reset, + whatever you gained from the preceding experience.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: MindMeower]
    #26935612 - 09/14/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Here is a question with no answer. The mystical experience cannot be quantify with words. You'll probably get a thousand answers.

  The point at which you cease to perceive yourself is interesting. The insight you get afterwards might be transformative you are essentially you bit with an added experience.

  Are you the same person after sky diving? Again for the most part, but with added experience.

As far as it's implications, well you can add your two cents into the well.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: MindMeower] * 1
    #26935625 - 09/14/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

To get a better idea, try to ponder more about what the ego actually is.

The ego does not equal consciousness.  Ie; without the framework of the ego, there is still very much consciousness (maybe even more, much more)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon] * 2
    #26935669 - 09/14/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Archy of Aedon said:
The way I've heard ego death described, is that it ''dissolves your sense  of being, and your mind is ejected from your body. When the trip wears down your brain will then undergo a ''reset'', and you supposedly return to your body.




Well that's so close to BS as to make no difference.  "Your mind is ejected from your body"?  :dafuq:

So far as it goes (and it doesn't really go very far) "ego death" is merely the halting of your sense of self (the "I" in your thoughts) which occurs pretty reliably with high doses, and it's down to connectivity changes in the brain SFAIK.  Your executive function stops operating for the most part.

Give it a while as the trip wears off and unless you're extremely lucky it will just start up of its own accord again and not much will have changed. 

Except you may decide you've experienced some sort of enormous change and proceed to tell everybody you know all about it and how wonderful it was. :laugh2:

Eventually you may also decide you're better off without that sense of self directing your life and so seek means to gain better control of it. :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon] * 3
    #26935705 - 09/14/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

No, you remain conscious & aware.....it’s just that pure awareness is all that there is. No boundaries.....and it doesn’t last either.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26935719 - 09/14/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

No one's had ego death from psychedelics even if they thought they did. Also no one's ever had that kind or level of ego death period not even some zen shit


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OfflineCountHTML
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26935762 - 09/14/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ego death is a misnomer. Temporary dissolution of ego to varying degrees can occur in psychedelic states especially level 5.

Sometimes these states are spectacular and feel impossible, other times there’s a relatively uneventful “am I dead?” sort of thing going on. Paradoxes become tangible and pervasive. This can be somewhat uncomfortable.

In my deepest trips there’s always some form of observer remaining, even if I can’t make sense of it or left or right.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: bodhisatta] * 3
    #26935793 - 09/14/20 07:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That’s not true. You keep getting hung up on the word death whenever this topic comes up. Ego death is certainly a real phenomenon.....it’s just a temporary thing. I’ve experienced it plenty. It lasts a brief period in reality that seems eternal during the experience. Then all the pieces come back & you’re back. Just because you’ve never experienced it doesn’t make it any less of a real phenomenon. The issue is that newbs seem to think it’s a permanent enlightenment, or permanent loss of ego which is most certainly not the case. Nor can I say that having had the experience has led to any long term benefits. People also seem to think it refers to ego as “I’m the shit”, and not the Jungian meaning of the word which is what the phrase really refers to. The irony is I’ve noticed in my years in the psychedelic community is that a lot of the folks that have had the experience are actually really egotistical individuals


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26935816 - 09/14/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The ego will tell you you are the shit. Its definitely not some sort of permanent or even an enlightenment. Revaluation of sorts sure but it just gives you a glimpse into a very strange state of mind.


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OfflineCountHTML
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star] * 1
    #26935833 - 09/14/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah when you’re there it feels eternal and this whole side of the coin is a big farce, cosmic joke, illusion. I wonder though, if “death” is quite the correct term. Terminology in general kind of only applies on this side of the coin, though. I can go in there naively with a notepad and the intention to parse everything out with descriptors and observations but ultimately, such mortal intentions and expectations are blown away like the the rest of that strange dream someone else had.

Level five trips are a miracle. Sublime and insane, one leaves behind any semblance of television, politics and morning coffee only to return to such mundane reality after being outright convinced he or she would never return.

Life, tripping, the miracle in the mundane. Travel brings some degree of perspective. The terms only matter over here, verbal macromé projects but precision and care yield utility.


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star] * 1
    #26935840 - 09/14/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I've experienced ego death a few times. For me it is being stripped of everything except my visual perception. No internal dialogue either, just feeling. I am not aware of my body, who I am, nothing. Completely shot into the stars. When coming back the first thing I always notice is my lungs, the sensation of breathing. Then my physical reality rapidly comes crashing back along with my "real" vision. Then sometimes for a while I'm not aware who or where I am, even though I'm sat in my own home. That's weird and a little scary, but it only lasts a few minutes, then my memory comes back too.

The first time was a little traumatic, it put me off tripping for a long while but I got over it. Slowly I found my way back into psychedelia.

I avoid it if I can, don't push that far. I don't think the experience is pleasant. It's confusing, leaves endless questions with no answers and effects my psychological stability for ages. Bad mojo imho.

Of course other people have different experiences, the capabilities of the mind are endless. This is just what I found.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


Edited by Northerner (09/14/20 08:04 PM)


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OnlineNorthernerM
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26935861 - 09/14/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
The irony is I’ve noticed in my years in the psychedelic community is that a lot of the folks that have had the experience are actually really egotistical individuals



Yeah it's got nothing to do with spirituality or any new age hocus pocus, just how much drugs you can get into your bloodstream at a given moment and the ability not to fight it. Sometimes it doesn't even matter if you fight it or not, you still get shredded.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26935862 - 09/14/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I wonder where these thoughts of permanence are from in those states. Concepts just dissolve for me. So there is no way I'm formulating anything cohesive.

Also the level system baffles me.


Edited by LosTresOjos (09/14/20 08:18 PM)


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26935991 - 09/14/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I don't know what these levels are about either, I've not been able to define them. Perhaps it's just a number people put on how messed up you can get out of 5 before you black out.

I think people confuse the sense of "oneness" you get in psychedelic states as ego loss, maybe that has what the term has morphed to mean despite what the words actually mean. It's a great sensation, can be very meaningful to people. Since ego-loss and death has become so vogue they've become the holy grail of tripping experience in popular culture, akin to the coveted level 5 trip. I totally understand why people search for ways to identify with others as well when they have experienced extreme psychedelic states, and why others want the same thing. Perhaps even it's all just a game of semantics based around those needs.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26936205 - 09/15/20 12:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

People sure enjoy talking about it.

I wish there was a harmless way to prevent blackouts during heavy mushroom trips.  I've lost what were going to be excellent trips that way.  Without memory though you're probably experiencing the trip you can't recall it later.  I recall coming back from those sorts of experiences going "holy shit that was weird" - I wonder if stuff getting too weird can literally prevent you from remembering?


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26936215 - 09/15/20 12:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Simple answer NO, but it can lead to changes in thinking and behavior.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26936297 - 09/15/20 02:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I wish there was a harmless way to prevent blackouts during heavy mushroom trips.  I've lost what were going to be excellent trips that way.  Without memory though you're probably experiencing the trip you can't recall it later.  I recall coming back from those sorts of experiences going "holy shit that was weird" - I wonder if stuff getting too weird can literally prevent you from remembering?




I think it does.  I think it's a little part of yourself that "checks out" when things get too scary and don't want to be remembered.  Being a human is accepting a little veil over our heads as to the true nature of reality, so when we get where we may see a bit too much, I think we aren't really "allowed" (by ourselves) to remember.


--------------------
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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #26936346 - 09/15/20 04:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Salvia was the only thing that ever induced in me a total ego loss and even then the terror I felt during the experience was indicative of some sinewy sliver of consciousness and understanding of what was occurring as if my consciousness itself had been pushed back into my subconscious mind, and 'I' was fighting all the time to get back.

Even animals have some measure of identity and ego albeit incredibly basic and primitive relative to us. A dog would be an example of an animal with a more developed sense of ego compared to other animals, whereas we humans are egotistical to truly insane proportions and it is this I believe which is (or can be) diminished when we use psychedelic drugs. 

Ego is after all a big part of what separates us from animals and often I have had the sense when using psychedelics that I have crashed back through millions of years of human evolution, to a more primitive animalistic state, only with my human intelligence still (relatively) intact.

When I experience 'ego death' it is as if I am looking back at myself and realizing how truly ridiculous and deluded/egotistical my normal self is. How he goes online to places like this to boast about using psychedelics, and how much further he has been, and how much more experienced he is than other people (hence the advice) all for the real purpose of showing off basically and creating a persona and identity of which I can feel proud!

But when I'm actually on psychedelics, all of that crap is utterly obliterated within minutes and then seems utterly absurd, even humiliating.

The big irony of most of us psychedelic users is that we tend to be more egotistical than average and are therefore kind of missing the central message that psychedelics are supposed to impart (that the identity is an illusion that often makes us suffer) kinda like a Buddhist boasting about how he has achieved enlightenment!

It's one reason I always felt that posting/boasting about my psychedelic experience on the shroomery kinda contaminated the process and my intentions for using them.

I'm not sure anyone can ever escape the cycle (nor would I really want to) but I think at least we can try to catch ourselves and avoid taking ourselves too seriously, taking care that we do not become too egotistical and at least try to diminish/control the ego, and its often malign influence.

I compare myself now to my younger self for example (who was positively narcissistic) and it really is apparent looking back that as my ego has diminished over the years I have become happier and more content!

But if you want the real thing (ego death) OP then the only surefire way IMO would be to shoot yourself!

And even then I strongly suspect reincarnation is a thing so...


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"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Edited by wolf8312 (09/15/20 04:36 AM)


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26937172 - 09/15/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
The ego does not equal consciousness.  Ie; without the framework of the ego, there is still very much consciousness (maybe even more, much more)




Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
"ego death" is merely the halting of your sense of self (the "I" in your thoughts) which occurs pretty reliably with high doses, and it's down to connectivity changes in the brain SFAIK.  Your executive function stops operating for the most part.




Quote:

Dark_Star said:
No, you remain conscious & aware.....it’s just that pure awareness is all that there is. No boundaries.....and it doesn’t last either.







:werd:




One of the times I've had what I feel is a classic "ego death" or "dissolving of ego" type experience, what ever label one wants to slap on it but basically relates to what we're talking about here in this thread......

...I've described my experience as, "being reduced to nothing but a point of awareness within a void of caressing vibrations" . No body, no identity, no memory, no nothing but pure awareness. It was a blank void of nothing but awareness and intense vibrations that I could feel through out my "being", and my "being" was basically the entire universe/existence itself. It was also one of those experiences of "oneness", merging with the cosmos.


"I", my point of awareness, no longer had an identity/name. "I" no longer remembered anything from my life, I had forgotten everything entirely about ever being a human or living before, basically everything about my identity/self was completely wiped away to a clean slate of awareness .

There was no "I" while it was happening, but there was absolutely still "awareness" , mere awareness had become my existence.

While in the midst of this experience it was like being in a void. No nothingness. And it felt like I was spread out across or connected to every minute point of the cosmos. And there were pronounced deep vibrations rolling through this awareness/void that I was reduced down to, I could feel these vibration physically but not with my body, I wasn't separate from the vibrations, I was the vibrations lol.

Hard to convey in words.



The strange part was coming back down.....becoming in touch with my physical body again, having parts of my self/identity slowly start to come back together. Slowly remembering this point of awareness has a physical body, remembering I breathe in this body, remembering this point of awareness has a name, aspects of my life and memories of family & friends slowly trickled back, then my ability to function/think/talk started to slowly come back.

*That experience was with mushrooms by the way. Around 5g dry. It was my 3rd or 4th trip ever. Still one of the most profound experiences I've had in my travels with psychedelics even after 10+ years and 200-ish trips.





-OM

.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Forrester] * 2
    #26937341 - 09/15/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I wish there was a harmless way to prevent blackouts during heavy mushroom trips.  I've lost what were going to be excellent trips that way.  Without memory though you're probably experiencing the trip you can't recall it later.  I recall coming back from those sorts of experiences going "holy shit that was weird" - I wonder if stuff getting too weird can literally prevent you from remembering?




I think it does.  I think it's a little part of yourself that "checks out" when things get too scary and don't want to be remembered.  Being a human is accepting a little veil over our heads as to the true nature of reality, so when we get where we may see a bit too much, I think we aren't really "allowed" (by ourselves) to remember.




No, not as to "scary" just as to too disjointed to feed into memory successfully. I've had the experience where I was following a chain of thought and it led to some conclusion that literally couldn't be thought - my brain just froze and had to restart.

So of course I became really interested in "thoughts that can't be thought" are and how they can perhaps be recalled. :thataintright:

"Reality" becomes seriously confusing when you get deep into so-called "true nature".  I've been working with this for many years and gradually getting better at it, IME it comes from doing specific experiments and paying attention to what happens. :awesomenod:


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: openmind]
    #26937532 - 09/15/20 04:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
The ego does not equal consciousness.  Ie; without the framework of the ego, there is still very much consciousness (maybe even more, much more)




.





I would argue though that true ego-death (literally no ego) can only really be attained by either unconsciousness or death, or maybe some degenerative brain disease, although I realize you are only really talking about the ego diminishing effects that can be attained through the use of the more classic psychedelics and all these definitions are very subjective and difficult to pin down.

As mentioned before though I believe Salvia can achieve a truer state of non-identity than the classic psychedelics, in which a person is not at all really conscious/aware of where, why, what, or when he actually is, and wherein he exists with no past, present, or future as only a thing or inanimate object, with the only clue he even does exist a kind of subliminal terror and itching to get back home again...

Not only would I argue that this is as close to ego death as we are likely to get short of death, but that it is also a state of greatly diminished consciousness or awareness (pretty much total) in which a person and hence his whole identity is almost literally gone, and what consciousness, if any, is left, is repressed.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #26937537 - 09/15/20 04:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ego death is a spectacular phenomena.


Salvia makes it VERY easy. U take a powerful hit and everything disintegrates for a moment and you fly away / dissolve in love and become one with the universe, boundaries obliterated, illusion    of separation gone.

Shrooms and acid good for it too. One thing: u gotta have balls and brain and heart to experience true ego loss. You must learn to let go.


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26937543 - 09/15/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The other thing, ego death is total spiritual healing.

I suggest everyone interested read Timothy Learys Psychedelic Experience book.

In it he describes that when u trip u come back one of 6 options, i dont remember all but lowest 6th is a very messed up state - u scarred yourself psychologically. Wheres 2 - is called Titan state - u come back much stronger spiritually . And 1 - u guessed it - u come back from real ego loss and you are g o d  l i k e


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OfflineBernard
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26937563 - 09/15/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
No one's had ego death from psychedelics even if they thought they did. Also no one's ever had that kind or level of ego death period not even some zen shit





I completely disagree.

Maybe I'm not using the right words...

I had suicidal tendencies since I was about 8 years old. Always a nagging thing in the the back of my mind that would come up...a thought...an idea.... Why not just kill yourself. It didn't matter if I was really sad about something like the death of a friend of loved one or if I was in a really good mood after acing a test or watching my favorite team win. It happened at completely random times.  Kill yourself. Do it. End it.

It was like that for 40 years or so. In some ways, those years for me were like "occasional torture". Sometimes I wanted to die for 2 or 3 days straight. I just couldn't get it out of my head. I called a suicide hotline once. The guy on the other end started asking questions about why I felt that way...why do you want to die? FUCK MAN, I don't know! I just do. Do I need a reason?

Then I got into mushrooms. Lower doses at first. Then I tripped (somewhat on accident) really hard. At one point, I could see myself lying on the floor. I was standing over myself and looking up at myself at the same time. The "me" on the floor was crying, sobbing, as usual - wanting to die. The me standing up looking down said stuck out my middle finger and said, "Fuck you. I'm so fucking tired of you."

And I died.....

A day later, I couldn't stop thinking about that.  Six months later, it dawned on me that I had not thought of suicide once. When I thought about it, I giggled like it was the dumbest thing anyone could ever think of. How could anyone do something so dumb. It's just dumb....

Here I am 4 years later. I think about suicide every now and then and it's like a joke. There's no way I would ever do that - it's fucking stupid....

Maybe "ego death" is not the correct label. Whatever. I can tell you quite clearly and accurately, that I died that day.

The day I died, was literally, the best day of my life.


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Bernard]
    #26937604 - 09/15/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Love is the secret ingredient


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: wolf8312] * 1
    #26937605 - 09/15/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
...I've described my experience as, "being reduced to nothing but a point of awareness within a void of caressing vibrations" . No body, no identity, no memory, no nothing but pure awareness. It was a blank void of nothing but awareness and intense vibrations that I could feel through out my "being", and my "being" was basically the entire universe/existence itself. It was also one of those experiences of "oneness", merging with the cosmos.


"I", my point of awareness, no longer had an identity/name. "I" no longer remembered anything from my life, I had forgotten everything entirely about ever being a human or living before, basically everything about my identity/self was completely wiped away to a clean slate of awareness .

There was no "I" while it was happening, but there was absolutely still "awareness" , mere awareness had become my existence.





^^^ This is it.  Right here.  Great description.  That's what the ego is. 

A course in miracles describes it as "the you that you made" vs. "the you that God made".  Ie; Your concept of your self.  Who you've made yourself to be throughout your life.  Who others have told you you are, and you believed.  All your experiences and how they've affected you.

This is the part that is temporarily forgotten (what we call death and I agree is a misnomer), while still leaving consciousness of the true self alive and aware.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
I would argue though that true ego-death (literally no ego) can only really be attained by either unconsciousness or death




Totally disagree, see above.  Maybe you just haven't experienced it yet?


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Forrester]
    #26937726 - 09/15/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

openmind said:
...I've described my experience as, "being reduced to nothing but a point of awareness within a void of caressing vibrations" . No body, no identity, no memory, no nothing but pure awareness. It was a blank void of nothing but awareness and intense vibrations that I could feel through out my "being", and my "being" was basically the entire universe/existence itself. It was also one of those experiences of "oneness", merging with the cosmos.


"I", my point of awareness, no longer had an identity/name. "I" no longer remembered anything from my life, I had forgotten everything entirely about ever being a human or living before, basically everything about my identity/self was completely wiped away to a clean slate of awareness .

There was no "I" while it was happening, but there was absolutely still "awareness" , mere awareness had become my existence.





^^^ This is it.  Right here.  Great description.  That's what the ego is. 

A course in miracles describes it as "the you that you made" vs. "the you that God made".  Ie; Your concept of your self.  Who you've made yourself to be throughout your life.  Who others have told you you are, and you believed.  All your experiences and how they've affected you.

This is the part that is temporarily forgotten (what we call death and I agree is a misnomer), while still leaving consciousness of the true self alive and aware.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
I would argue though that true ego-death (literally no ego) can only really be attained by either unconsciousness or death




Totally disagree, see above.  Maybe you just haven't experienced it yet?




This is where we now shall compete to decide which of us has experienced more ego death than the other hehe!

The point I was trying to make is that ego death literally means the loss of all identity. Only, in terms of the classic psychedelics, this isn’t really what ego death means. As I pointed out already I am well aware that there is an important semantical distinction to be made between the ego death one experiences with the classic psychedelics and something like salvia, the latter being almost literally the loss of all identity, while the former is something of a misnomer (though no less profound) which is surely why you yourself claimed ego death has nothing whatsoever to do with any lack of awareness or consciousness which is when one thinks about it, a contradiction of terms.

My intention was only really an attempt at more clearly defining our terms, while both agreeing and disagreeing with what you were saying for semantical reasons. I myself never really touched upon ego-death (which is rather ineffable anyway) as users of the classic psychedelics commonly understand it, or how I myself personally conceptualize it except to give a basic outline in my OP.


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Edited by wolf8312 (09/15/20 11:30 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: wolf8312]
    #26938323 - 09/16/20 02:15 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
This is where we now shall compete to decide which of us has experienced more ego death than the other hehe!





Haha, no I certainly didn't intend to do that.  I would agree that there are varying experiences which might fall under this title and all any of us are really doing here is arguing semantics of what the term means :smile:

There's all kinds of experiences we can have and it's absolutely not a linear scale that ends in the infamous "ego death" :lol:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26938470 - 09/16/20 06:28 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I was avoiding this thread, but glad I read it.

so many of the contributors in this thread have an excellent grasp on the difference of blackout from too high a dose, and trips when you find yourself being just an observer in a magical universe without any defensive responses (AKA ego death. (detachment of ego))

Each using their own words here to describe the common experience factors is so good to see; and I have to say I am surprised and I am happy with what is being said here in natural language.

just one example, chosen only because it seems too simple but it contains everything as well.

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:
Ego death is a spectacular phenomena.


Salvia makes it VERY easy. U take a powerful hit and everything disintegrates for a moment and you fly away / dissolve in love and become one with the universe, boundaries obliterated, illusion    of separation gone.

Shrooms and acid good for it too. One thing: u gotta have balls and brain and heart to experience true ego loss. You must learn to let go.




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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26938541 - 09/16/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The surrendering and letting go of the sense of self (I), followed by the pure awareness (non-dual), seems like a special experience, certainly extra ordinary. I've come to realise the experience was just that, nothing special. As the Zen buddhists would say 'enlightenment is nothing special', dont attach significance to that past experience just be in the now.

Wondered if the blacking out is a way for the body/mind to cope with being shown too much too soon. Like there is a sense that its not ready, certainly seems like there was a higher intelligence at work, perhaps the body/mind knows how to heal itself if you get out of its way.

Or was it just too high a dose and the body shut down...

It sure feels extra ordinary though waking up and not knowing your name, day/year/century your living in. I suppose the sense of self will shift, it is always in a state of flux.


Edited by MetalSlug (09/16/20 08:22 AM)


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: MetalSlug]
    #26938566 - 09/16/20 08:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

blacking out: it just too high a dose and the associative process fails.
you could say that awareness shuts down, but the body continues (you could sleep walk - cerebellum still works nerves and muscles still work), associative effort continues but fails through the interference of too much drug induced electrical field resonance in the cerebral cortex (synaptic retriggering).

it could be related to anesthetic effects but under anesthetic you do not move around, so I think it is just the overload of the associative process by retriggering - basically jamming the feed with itself.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26938575 - 09/16/20 08:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
blacking out: it just too high a dose and the associative process fails.
you could say that awareness shuts down, but the body continues (you could sleep walk - cerebellum still works nerves and muscles still work), associative effort continues but fails through the interference of too much drug induced electrical field resonance in the cerebral cortex (synaptic retriggering).

it could be related to anesthetic effects but under anesthetic you do not move around, so I think it is just the overload of the associative process by retriggering - basically jamming the feed with itself.






WAW


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy] * 1
    #26939121 - 09/16/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Huxley writes about coming face to face with some manifestation of the 'Mysterium tremendum':

"This, I suddenly felt, was going too far. Too far, even though the going was into intenser beauty, deeper significance. The fear, as I analyze it in retrospect was of being overwhelmed, of disintegrating under a pressure of reality greater than a mind, accustomed to living most of the time in a cosy world of symbols, could possibly bear. The literature of religious experience abounds in references to the pains and terrors overwhelming those who have come, too suddenly, face to face with some manifestation of the 'Mysterium tremendum.' In theological language, this fear is due to the incompatibility between man's egotism and the divine purity, between man's self-aggravated separateness and the infinity of God. Following Boehme and William Law, we may say that, by unregenerate souls, the divine Light at its full blaze can be apprehended only as a burning purgatorial fire. An almost identical doctrine is to be found in The Tibetan Book of the Dead, where the departed soul is described as shrinking in agony from the Pure Light of the Void, and even from the lesser tempered Lights, in order to rush headlong into the comforting darkness of selfhood as a reborn human being, or even as a beast, an unhappy ghost, a denizen of hell. Anything rather than the burning brightness of unmitigated Reality." -
Aldous Huxley


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon]
    #26939992 - 09/17/20 01:11 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

No.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26954889 - 09/25/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I just recently experienced the "ego death" for the first time. I had no idea what was happening and it terrified me. The trip started like normal but after some time I could tell that this was going to be a very intense experience. I started to fight the trip when it was going past a point that I was comfortable with. I slowly started to lose touch with reality. I began to forget who my loved ones were, who I was, where I was; as I began losing my senses. I lost feeling in my whole body and face. All I could feel was the back of my head. I could not hear and all I could see was a single color that randomly changed. The part of me that could still feel was petrified. Words can not give justice to the feeling of being in this state.  The first noise I hear is what can only be described as the droning buzzing of a flat-lining EKG machine. A dogs bark snaps me out of this state but I helplessly fall back into it. I fall in and out reality a few times before I call for help from a friend.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: handsomedead]
    #26955393 - 09/26/20 01:21 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

handsomedead said:
I just recently experienced the "ego death" for the first time. I had no idea what was happening and it terrified me. The trip started like normal but after some time I could tell that this was going to be a very intense experience. I started to fight the trip when it was going past a point that I was comfortable with. I slowly started to lose touch with reality. I began to forget who my loved ones were, who I was, where I was; as I began losing my senses. I lost feeling in my whole body and face. All I could feel was the back of my head. I could not hear and all I could see was a single color that randomly changed. The part of me that could still feel was petrified. Words can not give justice to the feeling of being in this state.  The first noise I hear is what can only be described as the droning buzzing of a flat-lining EKG machine. A dogs bark snaps me out of this state but I helplessly fall back into it. I fall in and out reality a few times before I call for help from a friend.




Right! I've experienced something similar!

Did you actually lose your sense of "I", or were you aware on some level that you were tripping?

I love this type of discussion btw feel free to PM if you're not comfortable sharing here! :bongload: :sunny:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26955651 - 09/26/20 06:56 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I would not call that ego death, just psychedelic overdosing.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26955685 - 09/26/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ego death is like forgetting someone's name for a day and calling it getting alzheimer's


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26955725 - 09/26/20 08:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I would not call that ego death, just psychedelic overdosing.




Ditto


There was a really good post by someone something like 20 years ago about true ego death, the description is awesome, I'll see if I can find it


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26955764 - 09/26/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I am just saying it is ego death because this experience I had was much more incredibly intense than any other trip I have had, and I think it was an ego death. I only ever did GT and the dosing for those seems to scale pretty normal. I tried to be a hero and I took 3g PE completely unaware of how much more potent these were. They were giant blobbed mutants that I got on my first flush and I had cut them into pieces before drying. Definitely noticed that PE are quite unpleasant tasting almost immediately and the texture closely resembles popcorn. The slices are pure white.

I am not trying to brag that I had an ego death experience but I dont know how else to describe what I went through. I have had plenty of trips on GT and I was able to calm myself down and deal with intensity on my own. But these PE... before I was peaking I can distinctly remember completely losing touch with reality. Any sense of who I was, what my likes were, what I do for a living, who my family was, etc began to be stripped from me. And i "went somewhere" I dont know where this place I went was. Nothing was recognizable about this place. There are no physical objects. Almost like a purgatory setting with colors and lines. I dont really feel like I learned anything either. It wasnt a profound experience due to how scared I was. It was just pure horror im sorry. Before I called for help I was pacing around my room taking my clothes off. I was sweating so much it was insane. I can also remember seriously believing that the only way to stop what I was going through was to injure myself. I dont know what I would have done, but I also distinctly remember thinking that stabbing my hands would feel good like scratching a good itch.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: handsomedead]
    #26956017 - 09/26/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That might not be an ego death. Sounds like you fought it pretty hard. I can't conceive having thoughts about hurting myself or others in the state in which I have found my self on high doses. Words, concepts seem to linger in thing air for a moment before being obliterated of all meaning. I find myself being an observer of a new world, that has no hard edges or definitions. Or linguistic description.

  You gotta learn to be calm and allow the experience to unfold. You'll learn to play and even manipulate it to an extent. But it takes practice.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26956046 - 09/26/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

FOUND IT!! Give me a sec to post


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy] * 1
    #26956048 - 09/26/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2008393#2008393

Level 5 trips are actually very difficult to define. 

You can take enough shrooms to experience a level 5 trip but never get there because you're too consumed in fighting yourself from letting go and in turn you experience a nightmare trip. You fight with the past, future and present. You fight who you are and who want to become and the road you must travel to get there. You fight the physical world around you, using every ounce of mental strength you have trying to tell yourself that none of this is really happening. You fight the urge to cry. . . scream. . . break down in to a mangled heap of emotions. You fight yourself. You struggle and struggle and hold on with all your might. You try and comprehend what's going on inside you as well in your surrounding environment. You look to grasp onto anything that has a touch of reality to it. You have to convince yourself that you're not in a nightmare but merely on mushrooms. You tell yourself this over and over again. Then finally, hours later, you begin to descend back into reality. You're left scratching your head. "Gosh, that was a crazy experience... I don't think I'll do that again." Then you run to the shroomery and or to your friends and tell them about your crazy level 5 trip. You speak of the insanity of it all. You had no concept of anything. You couldn't even grasp the concept of you being alive. Then you move on with your life, thinking that your profound level 5 trip has changed your philosophy on life and your are much wiser for it. 

Well, you didn't experience a level 5 trip. 

With a true level 5 trip you have learned the trick of letting go. Even people who can transcend into level 5 trips have trouble letting go of who they are. What typically happens to me is I'll struggle with letting go for a long time. I tell myself I took way too much. I feel like I'm going insane. I'll tell myself I'm headed for a bad trip. I'll struggle and struggle and refuse to let go of my reality. I look for something real to grab. I'll look for a friend to talk to. I fight to urge to break down... Then something happens... I give up on fighting. My physical reality fades out. Memories of my past fly by me at light speed but some how I'm able to reflect on the entirety of them in a course of a second. I'm flying I think, feeling like I'm being pulled somewhere really fast, but what's interesting is there's nothing on my body to be pulled because I have no body. I arrive someplace. I don't know what or where it is but I don't care. I feel like I'm a rock or a tree or a drop of dew on a leaf observing a natures setting. Nothing seems to happens. I hear something calling me. I look and see nothing. I observe the beauty of the sun reflecting of the ripples in the water. Then in an instant I become the sun drenched ripple on the water. I feel the suns warmth. I roll over and turn back around. I see the shore from a distance. I am relaxed. I feel myself roll over again. This feeling of being liquid is truly amazing (although I'm not actually able to comprehend it at that moment. Only hours later am I able to put any of this together.) I slowly ripple towards the shoreline. I see a butterfly flutter over me. In a flash I am the butterfly. I flutter through the air towards the shore and land on the moist sandy shoreline. I take a drink off the damp ground. It is so soothing. I have been flying for hours and I'm really tired. I feel like I'm going to collapse. I feel like if I stay in this spot much longer I'll be in danger. I flutter over to plant leaf and rest my wings. I feel old. I relax my wings and try to think. I can't think. I don't know how to think. I melt into the leaf. I feel like liquid again. Everything is vividly green. I feel like I'm travelling through the vascular system of the plant, through it's stem in to its roots then back into the ground. I'm flying again. I'm being pulled harded then I was before. There's a sense of urgency to get somewhere. There are colors everywhere. I can taste them. I can hear them, I can feel them. I realize that I am a color. I'm blue. I'm weightless, moving fast. I see a window. I fly into it and then through it. I'm split in to many different rays. I start to feel myself breathing again. It feels good... like I'm coming home from a trip that lasted too long. I feel my legs and then arms. I feel my heart beating. I open my eyes. I'm laying in my room on the ground next to my couch. My friends watching MTV and laughing. Music is playing in the background. I don't know what it is but it feels good to hear. I lift my head off the ground and finally realize that I am in fact myself. It's hard to say if this is real at first. I still feel very intoxicated. I remind myself what's going on, or at least I try to remind myself. I look at the clock. "1:54" has no meaning to me. my previous days work floods into my mind. I feel anxious about it. I realize that I'm start to come down. I get up and sit on the couch next to my friend. I ask him how long I've been laying on the couch. He says he thinks I've been down there for 2 and a half hours. I turn my focus on to the television and quickly become engrossed in what happening. I am happy. I feel good. I have had a level 5 trip.”


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Edited by Gypsy Boy (09/26/20 02:48 PM)


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26956055 - 09/26/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh:

That post, was probably the GREATEST post on shroomery, at least its my favourite


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Edited by Gypsy Boy (09/26/20 01:56 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: handsomedead]
    #26956184 - 09/26/20 02:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

handsomedead said:
I am just saying it is ego death because this experience I had was much more incredibly intense than any other trip I have had, and I think it was an ego death. I only ever did GT and the dosing for those seems to scale pretty normal. I tried to be a hero and I took 3g PE completely unaware of how much more potent these were. They were giant blobbed mutants that I got on my first flush and I had cut them into pieces before drying. Definitely noticed that PE are quite unpleasant tasting almost immediately and the texture closely resembles popcorn. The slices are pure white.

I am not trying to brag that I had an ego death experience but I dont know how else to describe what I went through. I have had plenty of trips on GT and I was able to calm myself down and deal with intensity on my own. But these PE... before I was peaking I can distinctly remember completely losing touch with reality. Any sense of who I was, what my likes were, what I do for a living, who my family was, etc began to be stripped from me. And i "went somewhere" I dont know where this place I went was. Nothing was recognizable about this place. There are no physical objects. Almost like a purgatory setting with colors and lines. I dont really feel like I learned anything either. It wasnt a profound experience due to how scared I was. It was just pure horror im sorry. Before I called for help I was pacing around my room taking my clothes off. I was sweating so much it was insane. I can also remember seriously believing that the only way to stop what I was going through was to injure myself. I dont know what I would have done, but I also distinctly remember thinking that stabbing my hands would feel good like scratching a good itch.





Sounds more like too high a dose to me, and then you had a fear reaction to what was happening.  This comes from bad set and setting IME.

The classic ego-death leaves you without a sense of self, but embedded in a larger conscious world, which is more akin to Buddhist doctrine, whereas you're describing something of a hell realm.

Perhaps they are linked though. :shrug:


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26956235 - 09/26/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> If level 5 is holdin' the mooon in your hand as it sings, then yes, been there.

I don't believe in the 'level 5' myth... I think a 'level 5 trip' can happen at any dosage, or no dosage.

Holding the moon in your hand as it sings... very strong level 4.
Being the song the moon is singing... 'level 5'. 




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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26956238 - 09/26/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rose said:
Seuss gets a cookie.

Summerbreeze, you described a lvl 4 trip. Lvl 4 trips are the most intense trip you can have.

The trip rating system is very confusing. lvl 1-4 have to do with dosage. Lvl 5 does not.

lvl 5 is different entirely. If you think a lvl 5 trip is all about visualizations, you're confusing it with a lvl 4. Look at the bright side, you still have more to experience.

I swear, if you have a lvl 5 trip, the visualizations won't matter.
Lvl 5 is a spiritual awakening. You will know it when you experience true ego loss. 




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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26956562 - 09/26/20 06:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Levels are a misguided way of thought.  That "level 5" trip report is an example of why this is so.  :yeahthatsright:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26956649 - 09/26/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I don't understand the level system. It seems rather meaningless, an attempt to categorize an experience into digestible parts. After having tried higher doses i honestly believe that you have either taken enough to completely saturate yourself or you have not. The threshold as is dmt exists for psilocybin. Its not called a trip for  no reason and at a certain level of intoxication this door unlocks and you are flung into hyperspace.

  For me that dose range is around 4.5g and anything above that just adds fuel to the ship. I think that the ego loss is one being at peace with the universe. You make no attempt to push or pull, you just ride the immediate currents of reality. That can be attained at anytime, its just psychedelics really force you into that head space.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26957358 - 09/27/20 11:54 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26957365 - 09/27/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I don't understand the level system. It seems rather meaningless, an attempt to categorize an experience into digestible parts. After having tried higher doses i honestly believe that you have either taken enough to completely saturate yourself or you have not. The threshold as is dmt exists for psilocybin. Its not called a trip for  no reason and at a certain level of intoxication this door unlocks and you are flung into hyperspace.

  For me that dose range is around 4.5g and anything above that just adds fuel to the ship. I think that the ego loss is one being at peace with the universe. You make no attempt to push or pull, you just ride the immediate currents of reality. That can be attained at anytime, its just psychedelics really force you into that head space.




Jeah, pretty much - more or less - this. :cookiemonster:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26957433 - 09/27/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Levels are a misguided way of thought.  That "level 5" trip report is an example of why this is so.  :yeahthatsright:



Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I don't understand the level system. It seems rather meaningless, an attempt to categorize an experience into digestible parts.







I've always kinda "cringed" myself when ever people mention certain "levels", or when folks say things like "I had a level 4 trip", etc etc....Just sounds so cheesy and such a lame way to try to convey or categorize the experience. I totally understand why folks don't like referring to the effects of psychedelics as a certain "level".

With that said tho, I do feel the different "levels" convey the general idea of how intensely one is tripping/how far out they are. I get the idea of what one is talking about when they say they've had a "level 1 or 2 or 3 trip etc etc" .




Quote:

Level 1
This level produces a mild 'stoning' effect, with some visual enhancement (i.e. brighter colours etc.). Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound 'wider'.

Level 2
Bright colours and visuals (i.e. things start to move and breathe). Some 2-dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. Change of short term memory leads to continual distractive thought patterns. Vast increase in abstract thought becomes apparent as the natural brain filter is bypassed.

Level 3
Very obvious visuals, everything looking curved and/or warped patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grain or 'mother of pearl' surfaces. Closed-eye hallucinations become 3-dimensional. There is some confusing of the senses (synesthesia). Time distortions and 'moments of eternity'. Movement at times becomes extremely difficult (too much effort required).

Level 4
Strong hallucinations, i.e. objects morphing into other objects. Destruction or multiple splitting of the ego. Things start talking to you or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously. Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out-of-body experiences and ESP type phenomena. Blending of the senses.

Level 5
Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist.







I do feel that sorta puts things into a nutshell with how the nature of psychedelics changes as dosage is increased and one gets deeper into it all.....

But I also feel that trying to categorize the psychedelic experience into distinct "levels" is a bit goofy, I understand why folks don't like the "level system" lol.





-OM

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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: openmind]
    #26957493 - 09/27/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Jeah, that too!  :cookiemonster:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26957927 - 09/27/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I just trip with a dose that I think will be enough.  Usually works great, but I'd rather err on the high side than the low side. 

To me it's pointless to try to classify the trips in any other way, and having "levels" perpetuates the illusion of a conscious entity "having" a trip, i.e., it's another sneaky ego-based way to keep you from experiencing what's out there without perceptual filters.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26958029 - 09/27/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

True, but I classify it as an illusion we must learn to live with, or learn to know down to the last drop - or learn to undo/see through/be through -or just leave it as it is.  As in, it’s somehow part of our human condition to inevitably dualize and finitise that which is primordially always already unified and infinite by its own accord and nature, and sometimes it seems like we can’t just stop and see ourselves doing it. . . But there are those who know - we can - at least temporarily, stop, and truly see more clearly & know better.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (09/28/20 08:50 AM)


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy] * 1
    #26979496 - 10/11/20 05:51 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:

FOUND IT!! Give me a sec to post

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2008393#2008393






Yes - wonderful -- what this post shows is that what ego does is create the feeling that we are separate from the rest of the world -- and this is false --everything we do as egos (aka personalities) is in a sense stupid--and unnecessary...
When free of ego, the awareness freely melts in and out of everything (&/or "becomes" everything): in the post for example: the water -- the butterfly --- the plant---and the awareness is naturally spontaneously joyous
Therefore, it seems, so called  "ego "death" " is just a return to experiencing awareness when it is unconditioned by false beliefs.
The tragedy is that we are ordinarily so stuck, and often so resistant even when the opportunity to let go happens.


Edited by laughingdog (10/11/20 05:54 AM)


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26979893 - 10/11/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Nice ya :cheers:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26980994 - 10/12/20 07:44 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that ego death is not related to the levels described, and I think the levels are described with a litter of phony neuropsychological terms such as left brain right brain communication etc.

some of us are too entangled with habits to have 'ego-death' at any dose, while others can transcend themselves before they realize they are one with the floor or the couch.  the levels are not up to the task, although, some aspects of the salvia scale levels seem more relevant, and not specific to salvia at all:

1. Subtle - noticeable subtle effects from a light dose of any psychoactive.
2. Altered - this was added just to make a salvia scale spelling - ok - it is subtle but essentially the glimmer of change or letting go, or catching on, however you go.
3. Light visual - if you have a bit more than a microdose of anything you will probably notice visual effects encroaching upon the edges of things, richer colors, and some pattern enhancement or patinas on surfaces.
4. Visionary - this is the sweet spot for me. strong alteration of visual perception, chimeric blended forms, entity visitations. all psychedelics have this potential.
5. Immaterial - this corresponds to the joining with inanimate or animated objects, you can be other than you were, through and through you are a doorknob or anything. This is the most intense psychedelic effect that you can remember (and represents the highest effective dose - one you need not ever exceed on any drug) except for:
6. Amnesia - which is the loss of memory, perception ceases, nothing is recognizable, and the user is normally comatose - with deliriants the user can wander mindlessly, and with salvia some people bash through their living room windows and join the flowers in the garden for no known reason. All psychoactives have the ability to reach this  overly affected or overdose extent of mental disruption.

these 'levels' or states of consciousness can be recognized with all the psychedelics and in emotional and distressed situations without any drugs at all.

ego loss and ego death is not a state, but a quality of mind characterized by a sense of freedom and pervasive love in the now. Some get there naturally in a process of letting go of habit and defensiveness, and others arrive after years of meditative practice in letting go of habit and defensiveness. there is no guarantee that you will have a drug induced ego loss experience even if you dose to the max 1000 times. even if you dose beyond the max 1000 times.

what is ego anyway, if not the habit of defensiveness.

EGO is not really something that drugs can "control". Instead people suppress their minds with opiates, and cns depressants to reduce the strengths of their minds - numbing their habituated pain responses to life.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26981029 - 10/12/20 08:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

that's not ok

good point about the windows

low doses are very great

including salvia

smoking plain leaf life gandalf


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26981030 - 10/12/20 08:07 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

they get it worse on the medication

and become worse for others

what effect is there otherwise?

what does it mean beyond that?

isn't it 90%?


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26981284 - 10/12/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think your consciousness is erased on ego death...although there are varying degrees of ego death. One, you can definitely still manuever around reality, but you're basically confined to stumbling about your bed and meditating on stuff with an eye mask.

With ego death for me, one of two things happens. Depends on the substance. With enough salvia, I can achieve complete ego death with my consciousness temporarily displaced.

With other substances, my ego is destroyed temporarily, I can usually tell about 15 minutes before ego death occurs on stuff like LSD. All I have to do, is look in the mirror and if my face keeps changing appearance then I gotta put on an eyemask immediately and meditate. With LSD specifically I will kind of cry a little bit before I "die", and it does feel like I might actually die...so I clutch a pillow and enjoy the ride while I meditate to insane CEVs.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: skOsH]
    #26981323 - 10/12/20 11:12 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

skOsH
the confusion is really just about heavy dosing: In your comment remove the term ego death and replace with either Amnesia or Overdose - which in psychedelics is a non-fatal effect, TOO MUCH DRUG for memory to operate, or Total disorientation.

Total disorientation is not ego death.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #26981373 - 10/12/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
No, you remain conscious & aware.....it’s just that pure awareness is all that there is. No boundaries.....and it doesn’t last either.




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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: nooneman]
    #26981381 - 10/12/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Dont u love when some noob eats a shit load of shroomsd and then completly unprepared it hits him in the face and he crashes for few hours into complete oblivion, then comes back to tell he had level 5 "ego loss" :rolleyes:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26981510 - 10/12/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
skOsH
the confusion is really just about heavy dosing: In your comment remove the term ego death and replace with either Amnesia or Overdose - which in psychedelics is a non-fatal effect, TOO MUCH DRUG for memory to operate, or Total disorientation.

Total disorientation is not ego death.




I don't think I made myself clear. I actually feel like I am dying and I forget my body and then I am everything. I doubt 400mcg of LSD is an overdose. It seems like ego death to me. Listening to meditation music with an eyemask on seems like a normal...thing to do, on LSD.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: skOsH]
    #26981526 - 10/12/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

lol


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: skOsH]
    #26982005 - 10/12/20 05:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:
I don't think I made myself clear. I actually feel like I am dying and I forget my body and then I am everything. I doubt 400mcg of LSD is an overdose. It seems like ego death to me. Listening to meditation music with an eyemask on seems like a normal...thing to do, on LSD.




I would agree in that case, although LSD is a bit safer to take higher doses on and have a meaningful experience and not call it an "od". 

I do agree that some of the doses people take, especially of mushrooms, are in the "od" range, where blackout does often occur.  But with a high dose of LSD when you remember the whole thing, I wouldn't call it that.  I think it got confused where you said "stumbling around", because that's what many do on an overdose/blackout situation of other hallucinogens.  But re-reading, I think I understand what you meant, and have been there :wink:  Not an overdose at all for myself either.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26982043 - 10/12/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:
Dont u love when some noob eats a shit load of shroomsd and then completly unprepared it hits him in the face and he crashes for few hours into complete oblivion, then comes back to tell he had level 5 "ego loss" :rolleyes:




Don’t know why it has to be so competitive. The term ‘noob’ implies we are discussing a competitive sport!

So called ego death isn’t that difficult to attain if the dose is high enough, not as if we are talking about enlightenment.

No offense, but I can sympathize because it’s pretty galling when after merely describing a powerful life changing psychedelic experience a stranger online wants to tell you what you did or didn’t experience!


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: wolf8312] * 1
    #26982059 - 10/12/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
it’s pretty galling when after merely describing a powerful life changing psychedelic experience a stranger online wants to tell you what you did or didn’t experience!




I gotta agree there, we must remember that experience is subjective - in other words, what someone says it is, it in fact is

There's no objective reality to someone's personal experience.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon]
    #26982113 - 10/12/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I've had only 1 complete ego death moment in my life, it was with LSD. After the trip, I had lost a lot of memory about who I was before the trip and my ego was essentially nonexistent. I went from very high confidence and ego to having virtually no ego or confidence at all. It made me feel suicidal as I went from so high up to pretty much feeling like I was nothing. It took more than a year to recover and I think I can say at this point I have fully recovered but it was kind of like you living in a huge house with everything you want then 1 second later you're homeless and have nothing. It took months for me to remember what I was like before the trip and remember how I usually acted. It was like a full restart in your mind. I honestly wouldn't recommend something like that to anyone. You can, of course, have partial ego death which is more comforting but what I had was probably the worst experience of my life. The trip was fine so no I did not have a bad trip or anything but the after-effects really affected me


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26982484 - 10/12/20 09:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Reminds me of:  Jill Bolte Taylor's        Story

"My Stroke of Insight: A Brain Scientist's Personal Journey "

"On the morning of December 10, 1996 Jill Bolte Taylor, a 37-year-old Harvard-trained brain scientist experienced a massive stroke when a blood vessel exploded in the left side of her brain. A neuroanatomist by profession, she observed her own mind completely deteriorate to the point that she could not walk, talk, read, write, or recall any of her life, all within the space of four brief hours.
As the damaged left side of her brain - the rational, grounded, detail and time-oriented side - swung in and out of function, Taylor alternated between two distinct and opposite realties: the euphoric nirvana of the intuitive and kinesthetic right brain, in which she felt a sense of complete well-being and peace; and the logical, sequential left brain, which recognized Jill was having a stroke, and enabled her to seek help before she was lost completely.

In My Stroke of Insight, Taylor shares her unique perspective on the brain and its capacity for recovery, and the sense of omniscient understanding she gained from this unusual and inspiring voyage out of the abyss of a wounded brain. It would take eight years for Taylor to heal completely. Because of her knowledge of how the brain works, her respect for the cells composing her human form, and most of all an amazing mother, Taylor completely repaired her mind and recalibrated her understanding of the world according to the insights gained from her right brain that morning of December 10th.

Today Taylor is convinced that the stroke was the best thing that could have happened to her. It has taught her that the feeling of nirvana is never more than a mere thought away. By stepping to the right of our left brains, we can all uncover the feelings of well-being and peace that are so often sidelined by our own brain chatter.

A fascinating journey into the mechanics of the human mind, My Stroke of Insight is both a valuable recovery guide for anyone touched by a brain injury, and an emotionally stirring ..."

https://www.amazon.com/My-Stroke-Insight-Scientists-Personal/dp/B0020NH94A/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1602561363&sr=1-2


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Forrester]
    #26982684 - 10/13/20 12:55 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

skOsH said:
I don't think I made myself clear. I actually feel like I am dying and I forget my body and then I am everything. I doubt 400mcg of LSD is an overdose. It seems like ego death to me. Listening to meditation music with an eyemask on seems like a normal...thing to do, on LSD.




I would agree in that case, although LSD is a bit safer to take higher doses on and have a meaningful experience and not call it an "od". 

I do agree that some of the doses people take, especially of mushrooms, are in the "od" range, where blackout does often occur.  But with a high dose of LSD when you remember the whole thing, I wouldn't call it that.  I think it got confused where you said "stumbling around", because that's what many do on an overdose/blackout situation of other hallucinogens.  But re-reading, I think I understand what you meant, and have been there :wink:  Not an overdose at all for myself either.




Yeah when I wrote about the stumbling around it's more of me trying to literally avoid tripping over wires (from my headphones, really need to use wireless ones lol), or trying to remember where I just put something lol. I don't think I've blacked out, really. I guess my consciousness is not really erased, just cleaned, I guess is the proper term I should use. It's very refreshing post trip. But usually I pine for ego death and make sure I am taking a dose high enough to achieve it, but not overdo it. Ego death for me is respite from PTSD. I am sure many would think this logic is backwards, and that ego death would only make it worse, but "surviving" the trip makes my brain consider the PTSD to be peanuts in comparison for a good while. If I achieve ego death my symptoms disappear for months, sometimes if I am lucky, a year.

Ego death, I think, every now and then, is a good thing. Although some people enjoy lower doses and I respect that. Everyone wants to get what they want out of the experience, and that is dependent on their own desires and needs, which, if they plan the trip right and not much goes off the rails, they can integrate post trip and feel amazing. Takes some practice though


Edited by skOsH (10/13/20 12:56 AM)


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: skOsH]
    #26982816 - 10/13/20 06:31 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for your explanation.

you have the right to use it how you like.

psychedelic blasting caps for safe self demolition.
there is some sanity in it, and some pleasure too.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26982819 - 10/13/20 06:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Saul Ptamets said:
I've had only 1 complete ego death moment in my life, it was with LSD. After the trip, I had lost a lot of memory about who I was before the trip and my ego was essentially nonexistent. I went from very high confidence and ego to having virtually no ego or confidence at all. It made me feel suicidal as I went from so high up to pretty much feeling like I was nothing. It took more than a year to recover and I think I can say at this point I have fully recovered but it was kind of like you living in a huge house with everything you want then 1 second later you're homeless and have nothing. It took months for me to remember what I was like before the trip and remember how I usually acted. It was like a full restart in your mind. I honestly wouldn't recommend something like that to anyone. You can, of course, have partial ego death which is more comforting but what I had was probably the worst experience of my life. The trip was fine so no I did not have a bad trip or anything but the after-effects really affected me





Here we go again. I bet u didnt even read replies in this thread.

:rolleyes:

If you had true ego loss it would actually HEAL you , not give you a year worth of mental instability


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Edited by Gypsy Boy (10/13/20 07:38 AM)


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26982821 - 10/13/20 06:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

As for right and left brain i know evberything about that.

Dolphins actually evolved to  shut down their left brain completly and only operate using their right brain.

I actually experienced something similar myself. I was fiddling with brain chakras and at some point i isolated left brain completly and started operating using right brain only... but THEY showed up and ruined the whole experience for me. Now im back to normal


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26983012 - 10/13/20 09:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26983139 - 10/13/20 10:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Reminds me of:  Jill Bolte Taylor's        Story

"My Stroke of Insight: A Brain Scientist's Personal Journey "

A neuroanatomist by profession, she observed her own mind completely deteriorate to the point that she could not walk, talk, read, write, or recall any of her life, all within the space of four brief hours.

Thats what happened to me, I cant remember if I couldn't walk though. Everything else though happened to me


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26983140 - 10/13/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:
As for right and left brain i know evberything about that.

Dolphins actually evolved to  shut down their left brain completly and only operate using their right brain.

I actually experienced something similar myself. I was fiddling with brain chakras and at some point i isolated left brain completly and started operating using right brain only... but THEY showed up and ruined the whole experience for me. Now im back to normal



how do you just turn off 1 side of your brain


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26983179 - 10/13/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Thro meditation and psychic evolution


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26983191 - 10/13/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

the premise is that if you have a stroke on one side you will find out; but it is an erroneous premise.

in Jill Bolte Taylor's Story, the sudden intense brain fog and disability to find words for no obvious reason tells it all, the rest has to be assessed in hospital.


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26983257 - 10/13/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

im saying whats the process


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26983516 - 10/13/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:
Dolphins actually evolved to  shut down their left brain completly and only operate using their right brain.





No, to avoid drowning while sleeping, they sleep with only one half at a time, and they alternate sides.  You can tell because they close the eye on the opposite side that's sleeping. :cookiemonster:

https://www.livescience.com/44822-how-do-dolphins-sleep.html


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26983521 - 10/13/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it's a fallacy you know (left right brain)




Perhaps in the sense of "left brained, right brained traits" (with big air quotes), but there are separate conscious processes locatable to the two hemispheres.  This is extremely well documented in research and the few unfortunate people who've had their corpus callosum severed.


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