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Archy of Aedon
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Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? *DELETED* 1
#26935545 - 09/14/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Archy of Aedon
Reason for deletion: erasing online presence for privacy reasons, as my life might be in danger
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MindMeower
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon] 1
#26935572 - 09/14/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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From a phsyical standpoint, your being stems from the physical connections between neurons in your brain, and those will not go anywhere (and new ones get added). Psychedelics allow disruption of communications between the neurons and at sufficiently high doses complete disruption and the apparent ego death associated. It won't destroy the physical structure that was there before and once effects wear out things will function properly again, the reset, + whatever you gained from the preceding experience.
-------------------- M(e)owing minds
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LosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: MindMeower]
#26935612 - 09/14/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here is a question with no answer. The mystical experience cannot be quantify with words. You'll probably get a thousand answers.
The point at which you cease to perceive yourself is interesting. The insight you get afterwards might be transformative you are essentially you bit with an added experience.
Are you the same person after sky diving? Again for the most part, but with added experience.
As far as it's implications, well you can add your two cents into the well.
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Forrester
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: MindMeower] 1
#26935625 - 09/14/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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To get a better idea, try to ponder more about what the ego actually is.
The ego does not equal consciousness. Ie; without the framework of the ego, there is still very much consciousness (maybe even more, much more)
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon] 2
#26935669 - 09/14/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Archy of Aedon said: The way I've heard ego death described, is that it ''dissolves your sense of being, and your mind is ejected from your body. When the trip wears down your brain will then undergo a ''reset'', and you supposedly return to your body.
Well that's so close to BS as to make no difference. "Your mind is ejected from your body"? 
So far as it goes (and it doesn't really go very far) "ego death" is merely the halting of your sense of self (the "I" in your thoughts) which occurs pretty reliably with high doses, and it's down to connectivity changes in the brain SFAIK. Your executive function stops operating for the most part.
Give it a while as the trip wears off and unless you're extremely lucky it will just start up of its own accord again and not much will have changed.
Except you may decide you've experienced some sort of enormous change and proceed to tell everybody you know all about it and how wonderful it was. 
Eventually you may also decide you're better off without that sense of self directing your life and so seek means to gain better control of it.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Dark_Star
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Archy of Aedon] 3
#26935705 - 09/14/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, you remain conscious & aware.....it’s just that pure awareness is all that there is. No boundaries.....and it doesn’t last either.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
#26935719 - 09/14/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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No one's had ego death from psychedelics even if they thought they did. Also no one's ever had that kind or level of ego death period not even some zen shit
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CountHTML
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26935762 - 09/14/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ego death is a misnomer. Temporary dissolution of ego to varying degrees can occur in psychedelic states especially level 5.
Sometimes these states are spectacular and feel impossible, other times there’s a relatively uneventful “am I dead?” sort of thing going on. Paradoxes become tangible and pervasive. This can be somewhat uncomfortable.
In my deepest trips there’s always some form of observer remaining, even if I can’t make sense of it or left or right.
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Dark_Star
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: bodhisatta] 3
#26935793 - 09/14/20 07:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That’s not true. You keep getting hung up on the word death whenever this topic comes up. Ego death is certainly a real phenomenon.....it’s just a temporary thing. I’ve experienced it plenty. It lasts a brief period in reality that seems eternal during the experience. Then all the pieces come back & you’re back. Just because you’ve never experienced it doesn’t make it any less of a real phenomenon. The issue is that newbs seem to think it’s a permanent enlightenment, or permanent loss of ego which is most certainly not the case. Nor can I say that having had the experience has led to any long term benefits. People also seem to think it refers to ego as “I’m the shit”, and not the Jungian meaning of the word which is what the phrase really refers to. The irony is I’ve noticed in my years in the psychedelic community is that a lot of the folks that have had the experience are actually really egotistical individuals
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LosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
#26935816 - 09/14/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The ego will tell you you are the shit. Its definitely not some sort of permanent or even an enlightenment. Revaluation of sorts sure but it just gives you a glimpse into a very strange state of mind.
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CountHTML
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star] 1
#26935833 - 09/14/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah when you’re there it feels eternal and this whole side of the coin is a big farce, cosmic joke, illusion. I wonder though, if “death” is quite the correct term. Terminology in general kind of only applies on this side of the coin, though. I can go in there naively with a notepad and the intention to parse everything out with descriptors and observations but ultimately, such mortal intentions and expectations are blown away like the the rest of that strange dream someone else had.
Level five trips are a miracle. Sublime and insane, one leaves behind any semblance of television, politics and morning coffee only to return to such mundane reality after being outright convinced he or she would never return.
Life, tripping, the miracle in the mundane. Travel brings some degree of perspective. The terms only matter over here, verbal macromé projects but precision and care yield utility.
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Northerner
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star] 1
#26935840 - 09/14/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've experienced ego death a few times. For me it is being stripped of everything except my visual perception. No internal dialogue either, just feeling. I am not aware of my body, who I am, nothing. Completely shot into the stars. When coming back the first thing I always notice is my lungs, the sensation of breathing. Then my physical reality rapidly comes crashing back along with my "real" vision. Then sometimes for a while I'm not aware who or where I am, even though I'm sat in my own home. That's weird and a little scary, but it only lasts a few minutes, then my memory comes back too.
The first time was a little traumatic, it put me off tripping for a long while but I got over it. Slowly I found my way back into psychedelia.
I avoid it if I can, don't push that far. I don't think the experience is pleasant. It's confusing, leaves endless questions with no answers and effects my psychological stability for ages. Bad mojo imho.
Of course other people have different experiences, the capabilities of the mind are endless. This is just what I found.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
Edited by Northerner (09/14/20 08:04 PM)
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Northerner
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
#26935861 - 09/14/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: The irony is I’ve noticed in my years in the psychedelic community is that a lot of the folks that have had the experience are actually really egotistical individuals
Yeah it's got nothing to do with spirituality or any new age hocus pocus, just how much drugs you can get into your bloodstream at a given moment and the ability not to fight it. Sometimes it doesn't even matter if you fight it or not, you still get shredded.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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LosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Northerner] 1
#26935862 - 09/14/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wonder where these thoughts of permanence are from in those states. Concepts just dissolve for me. So there is no way I'm formulating anything cohesive.
Also the level system baffles me.
Edited by LosTresOjos (09/14/20 08:18 PM)
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Northerner
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26935991 - 09/14/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah I don't know what these levels are about either, I've not been able to define them. Perhaps it's just a number people put on how messed up you can get out of 5 before you black out.
I think people confuse the sense of "oneness" you get in psychedelic states as ego loss, maybe that has what the term has morphed to mean despite what the words actually mean. It's a great sensation, can be very meaningful to people. Since ego-loss and death has become so vogue they've become the holy grail of tripping experience in popular culture, akin to the coveted level 5 trip. I totally understand why people search for ways to identify with others as well when they have experienced extreme psychedelic states, and why others want the same thing. Perhaps even it's all just a game of semantics based around those needs.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Northerner] 1
#26936205 - 09/15/20 12:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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People sure enjoy talking about it.
I wish there was a harmless way to prevent blackouts during heavy mushroom trips. I've lost what were going to be excellent trips that way. Without memory though you're probably experiencing the trip you can't recall it later. I recall coming back from those sorts of experiences going "holy shit that was weird" - I wonder if stuff getting too weird can literally prevent you from remembering?
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Ice9
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#26936215 - 09/15/20 12:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Simple answer NO, but it can lead to changes in thinking and behavior.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Forrester
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#26936297 - 09/15/20 02:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: I wish there was a harmless way to prevent blackouts during heavy mushroom trips. I've lost what were going to be excellent trips that way. Without memory though you're probably experiencing the trip you can't recall it later. I recall coming back from those sorts of experiences going "holy shit that was weird" - I wonder if stuff getting too weird can literally prevent you from remembering?
I think it does. I think it's a little part of yourself that "checks out" when things get too scary and don't want to be remembered. Being a human is accepting a little veil over our heads as to the true nature of reality, so when we get where we may see a bit too much, I think we aren't really "allowed" (by ourselves) to remember.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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wolf8312
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Forrester] 1
#26936346 - 09/15/20 04:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Salvia was the only thing that ever induced in me a total ego loss and even then the terror I felt during the experience was indicative of some sinewy sliver of consciousness and understanding of what was occurring as if my consciousness itself had been pushed back into my subconscious mind, and 'I' was fighting all the time to get back.
Even animals have some measure of identity and ego albeit incredibly basic and primitive relative to us. A dog would be an example of an animal with a more developed sense of ego compared to other animals, whereas we humans are egotistical to truly insane proportions and it is this I believe which is (or can be) diminished when we use psychedelic drugs.
Ego is after all a big part of what separates us from animals and often I have had the sense when using psychedelics that I have crashed back through millions of years of human evolution, to a more primitive animalistic state, only with my human intelligence still (relatively) intact.
When I experience 'ego death' it is as if I am looking back at myself and realizing how truly ridiculous and deluded/egotistical my normal self is. How he goes online to places like this to boast about using psychedelics, and how much further he has been, and how much more experienced he is than other people (hence the advice) all for the real purpose of showing off basically and creating a persona and identity of which I can feel proud!
But when I'm actually on psychedelics, all of that crap is utterly obliterated within minutes and then seems utterly absurd, even humiliating.
The big irony of most of us psychedelic users is that we tend to be more egotistical than average and are therefore kind of missing the central message that psychedelics are supposed to impart (that the identity is an illusion that often makes us suffer) kinda like a Buddhist boasting about how he has achieved enlightenment!
It's one reason I always felt that posting/boasting about my psychedelic experience on the shroomery kinda contaminated the process and my intentions for using them.
I'm not sure anyone can ever escape the cycle (nor would I really want to) but I think at least we can try to catch ourselves and avoid taking ourselves too seriously, taking care that we do not become too egotistical and at least try to diminish/control the ego, and its often malign influence.
I compare myself now to my younger self for example (who was positively narcissistic) and it really is apparent looking back that as my ego has diminished over the years I have become happier and more content!
But if you want the real thing (ego death) OP then the only surefire way IMO would be to shoot yourself!
And even then I strongly suspect reincarnation is a thing so...
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (09/15/20 04:36 AM)
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openmind
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Dark_Star]
#26937172 - 09/15/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said: The ego does not equal consciousness. Ie; without the framework of the ego, there is still very much consciousness (maybe even more, much more)
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: "ego death" is merely the halting of your sense of self (the "I" in your thoughts) which occurs pretty reliably with high doses, and it's down to connectivity changes in the brain SFAIK. Your executive function stops operating for the most part.
Quote:
Dark_Star said: No, you remain conscious & aware.....it’s just that pure awareness is all that there is. No boundaries.....and it doesn’t last either.

One of the times I've had what I feel is a classic "ego death" or "dissolving of ego" type experience, what ever label one wants to slap on it but basically relates to what we're talking about here in this thread......
...I've described my experience as, "being reduced to nothing but a point of awareness within a void of caressing vibrations" . No body, no identity, no memory, no nothing but pure awareness. It was a blank void of nothing but awareness and intense vibrations that I could feel through out my "being", and my "being" was basically the entire universe/existence itself. It was also one of those experiences of "oneness", merging with the cosmos.
"I", my point of awareness, no longer had an identity/name. "I" no longer remembered anything from my life, I had forgotten everything entirely about ever being a human or living before, basically everything about my identity/self was completely wiped away to a clean slate of awareness .
There was no "I" while it was happening, but there was absolutely still "awareness" , mere awareness had become my existence.
While in the midst of this experience it was like being in a void. No nothingness. And it felt like I was spread out across or connected to every minute point of the cosmos. And there were pronounced deep vibrations rolling through this awareness/void that I was reduced down to, I could feel these vibration physically but not with my body, I wasn't separate from the vibrations, I was the vibrations lol.
Hard to convey in words.
The strange part was coming back down.....becoming in touch with my physical body again, having parts of my self/identity slowly start to come back together. Slowly remembering this point of awareness has a physical body, remembering I breathe in this body, remembering this point of awareness has a name, aspects of my life and memories of family & friends slowly trickled back, then my ability to function/think/talk started to slowly come back.
*That experience was with mushrooms by the way. Around 5g dry. It was my 3rd or 4th trip ever. Still one of the most profound experiences I've had in my travels with psychedelics even after 10+ years and 200-ish trips.
-OM
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