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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,665
Last seen: 1 hour, 38 minutes
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence] 1
#26935911 - 09/14/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: Sounds like you're just complaining about non existent problems. Nobody is keeping you from being spiritual and emotional and whatever the hell you're talking about. Unless you're talking about taking a bunch of drugs and calling it being spiritual.
I'm talking being at peace with yourself.
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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Shiithead
Your Huckleberry



Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Kelazam]
#26935916 - 09/14/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kelazam said: I agree with you for sure! Before I go on a psychedelic trip I always write down a couple questions for myself relating to my life and reality that I want insight on and I once wrote down "Am I free?" and during the trip I instantly knew that I was not and it made perfect sense. After the trip I googled the question and I saw a ton of articles and websites that also agree with me that free will does not exist and can not exist whatsoever. Everything is already predetermined and you have no control over what happens with it even though all of your senses and thoughts clearly say otherwise. When you go down to it though and analyze it you can see that everything has already happened in a sense and it's just a never ending cycle of infinite energy that is transforming and manifesting into what it is already and has been and will be.

Please know only God is concerned with that. There's no point in thinking about it or else you'll punk yourself out and do nothing with your life. I know that way of thinking all too well...
Take my advice and do something with your hands and stay away from psychs until you get more experience. Being a teenager is rough.
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Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Psalm 12:6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Shiithead] 1
#26935927 - 09/14/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sometimes all our aspirations want is to run away from us. You can chase them forever but the goalpost always rests on the horizon. Like a dog chasing it's tail. Somehow we manage to find meaning and enjoyment in it, for others it's just a source of frustration and something to be avoided. I think with something like free will, the best thing you can do is move on. There are lots of empowering and insightful questions to ask one's self but the far most important one anyone can have is that your time is valuable. If that's true and causality really is an immutable force then I can use that information and use it to expose myself to situations that manipulate my, more or less, fate. At which point it matters not if free will is effectual because I've paradoxically found a way to override the causal loop with my own desires.
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poofdargon
Stranger


Registered: 08/06/20
Posts: 57
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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I think there is a confusion between fatalism and determinism. Determinism I do believe is true, in that case there is no such thing as freedom in the Libertarian sense. There is cause and effect and if you know the causes and effects then you can maneuver things to benefit you sort of like lining up dominoes. Fatalism says that nothing can be changed and that's not what the free will people usually mean when they argue determinism.
Freedom is a nice word though. I like it. But the more I reflected on it the more I found it difficult to justify it's existence. I mean we are influenced by things we can perceive and things we can't. I can't really speak to spiritual freedom (mostly because I don't believe in the existence of any spiritual world or force or whatever the kids are calling it), but psychological freedom does not exist from what I see. I read up on plenty of experiments that show that we don't have to be aware of something for it to have an effect on us. That begs the question then about how can you be sure you are free? Can we be sure of anything at all? Most would say no, I kind of agree. I mean you can sure as hell feel like you're free, but that doesn't really mean much. It's like the Phantom Limb syndrome, just because you feel it doesn't make it real. Tack on top of all that the knowledge that there are questions that have no answer and one has to wonder what freedom is left to us, if any at all?
So them we end up with life as a movie, or close. Just enjoy the ride and don't worry about whether or not you're free. Cuz in the end you can never truly know.
-------------------- You think yourself immune to madness? Are you certain it has yet to take hold? I'm gonna be the greatest music star in all of Riboflavin. -Grup
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence]
#26936093 - 09/14/20 10:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: Nobody is keeping you from being spiritual and emotional and whatever the hell you're talking about.
I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the people I meet here.
Truly, all the most 'trapped' (not free in their thinking/habits/ways) people I've ever met have been in this country.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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poofdargon
Stranger


Registered: 08/06/20
Posts: 57
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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They seem pretty nice to me, but then again most people are.
-------------------- You think yourself immune to madness? Are you certain it has yet to take hold? I'm gonna be the greatest music star in all of Riboflavin. -Grup
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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I think a lot of people are dumbed down by internet obsession and excessive consumerism. I also feel there's a distinct lack of culture in this country. The bit of culture we do have is also directly tied to excessive consumerism lol.
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: poofdargon]
#26936200 - 09/15/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
poofdargon said: They seem pretty nice to me, but then again most people are.
Yeah, being nice is easy, it's not very noteworthy. Being real with people is more important I think, whether it entails being nice or not. I don't think he was saying anything about Americans being mean or something though. Unless I missed that part.
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,232
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 seconds
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence]
#26936214 - 09/15/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: I think a lot of people are dumbed down by internet obsession and excessive consumerism. I also feel there's a distinct lack of culture in this country. The bit of culture we do have is also directly tied to excessive consumerism lol.
Hang out with educated, cultured people. Plenty of culture here, local culture, state culture, regional culture and USA culture... It's everywhere if you just look. I thik you're looking for a different type of culture though.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Ice9]
#26936218 - 09/15/20 12:42 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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So is this what you're going to do from now on..keep making butthurt comments about something I already stopped talking about in another thread, whenever you see me around? Put me on ignore and be done with it. I'm not doing this here.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence]
#26936275 - 09/15/20 01:56 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said: They don't like Jesus though.
First of all, Jesus was Jewish. But whatever.
What would be more accurate would be to say that Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah. That's not the same as disliking someone. I love my friends, and none of them are the messiah.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,232
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 seconds
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence]
#26936279 - 09/15/20 02:06 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eminence said:
So is this what you're going to do from now on..keep making butthurt comments about something I already stopped talking about in another thread, whenever you see me around? Put me on ignore and be done with it. I'm not doing this here. 
You said you lacked culture in you life, I prided on means of finding it. Ad Hominems like butthurt won't get a rise from me if that's what your after.
If you unwilling to listen to reasonable suggestions I will stop making them.
Also, the post I quoted you made literally two post preceding my quote in this thread as anyone can see unless you edit it like a coward.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,141
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 39 minutes, 56 seconds
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
Eminence said: They don't like Jesus though.
First of all, Jesus was Jewish. But whatever. .
Well actually, Jesus is a fable.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Eminence



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Ice9]
#26936308 - 09/15/20 02:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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They're still there, as you can see. Done now?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence] 1
#26936381 - 09/15/20 05:02 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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People are very convinced the world is real. And that there is a brain in their skull. Once you see your thoughts are the only thing that really exists freedom will take on a new meaning. Though its worth it to put energy into fixing society. One's own perspective is the true lack or not of freedom.
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poofdargon
Stranger


Registered: 08/06/20
Posts: 57
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: bodhisatta]
#26936610 - 09/15/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: People are very convinced the world is real. And that there is a brain in their skull. Once you see your thoughts are the only thing that really exists freedom will take on a new meaning. Though its worth it to put energy into fixing society. One's own perspective is the true lack or not of freedom.
Well the world is “real” as far as I can tell but thoughts don’t exist, or not in the way people think they do. They’re just electrical impulses in your brain, which we do have evidence for existing.
I did read somewhere that you can’t be certain that anything truly exists even your own thoughts .
-------------------- You think yourself immune to madness? Are you certain it has yet to take hold? I'm gonna be the greatest music star in all of Riboflavin. -Grup
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: poofdargon]
#26936621 - 09/15/20 09:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Outer & inner world (even thoughts) - They are neither exactly here nor not here. Seemingly All phenomena marked by being Absent but apparent. Seemingly Nonexistent yet perceptible. That’s why in some religions & some scientists say all is like an illusion or dream. Not literally those things, but like them.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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poofdargon
Stranger


Registered: 08/06/20
Posts: 57
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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I haven’t heard of any scientist say that all is like an illusion or dream. What I do know they say is that the world constructed by our brains as a best guess of what is out there based on the senses. I’m not sure what would make someone say brains aren’t real though.
-------------------- You think yourself immune to madness? Are you certain it has yet to take hold? I'm gonna be the greatest music star in all of Riboflavin. -Grup
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: poofdargon]
#26936645 - 09/15/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do some research on interface theory, interesting stuff.
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poofdargon
Stranger


Registered: 08/06/20
Posts: 57
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: feevers]
#26936662 - 09/15/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I actually looked into the guy who started that, it turned out to be a bunk theory totally unsupported by evidence. What he gets right isn’t new, that reality is an approximation of what our brain thinks is out there. Alas, that’s about all he gets right. What he derives from that point however isn’t exactly true though and seems more like leaps of judgment to me. Evolution may favor fitness but that doesn’t mean there isn’t truth in observations or that we don’t see pieces of some objective reality.
He also makes the same mistake anyone does in suggesting that consciousness is the primary root of reality, mostly the circular logic that results from it. You still end up with the problem of what causes consciousness, which in this case we have evidence to suggest it’s the brain.
That’s just a few of the many problems with his theory, it’s less science and more philosophy. Actually it’s already been proposed in the past. They called it Idealism. The idea is more like a new coat of paint on age old arguments.
-------------------- You think yourself immune to madness? Are you certain it has yet to take hold? I'm gonna be the greatest music star in all of Riboflavin. -Grup
Edited by poofdargon (09/15/20 09:39 AM)
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