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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
The illusion of freedom * 1
    #26934335 - 09/13/20 10:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I saw a guy wearing a 'Land of the Free' T-shirt today, emblazoned with an American flag.

I couldn't help but think..

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Is freedom actually a thing?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineDonger
Stranger
Registered: 05/18/17
Posts: 210
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26934345 - 09/13/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'd say it is but it isn't. It's a deep question. The perseption is strong but there's always something to counter it and if not simply that then at least a price to pay.


Edited by Donger (09/13/20 10:56 PM)


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OfflineSporagami
Sufficiently talented fool
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/11/20
Posts: 97
Loc: Middle of a dumpster fire
Last seen: 11 months, 10 days
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26934357 - 09/13/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You sir have posited a very interesting question. I'm not a clever man but I dont know if one can truly know. Yes if you take away rule of law there is i freedom to act as one wishes but there is a sort of societal rule, which presents its own set of consequences the results of which could limit your choices by removing possibilities from you. Law came about in the ages of the strong ruling by the weaker convincing everyone to relinquish power to a centralized governing body that if boiled down results in ones own demise in a very roundabout sort of way. So i think you could say freedom is limited by ones own need for self preservation and what system you live under and what it allows you to do before intervening. So mabey its a yes and no depending on what you are willing to accept as a risk or consequence. But in the end we are all smaller than a blip in the grand scheme of things so who knows. Also i should probably mention I'm fairly impaired at the moment so take my rant as you will.


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:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Sporagami]
    #26934363 - 09/13/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It strikes me that the most efficient way to remove someones freedom is to convince them that they have it, first and foremost.

Once you have that done; well, the world is your oyster, as they say...

Orwellian vibes, everywhere.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26934374 - 09/13/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Freedom is real. Trust.

However, secruity is not.

We are not totally free in America as a collective. Not by a long shot. People need to be respectful of others freedoms. Increasing your freedom at the expense of others is wrong and I believe this is our problem. However, we are fighting an intangible war of ideas coming from intangible entities that survive from greed and the death of the American citizen and our fatherland.


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Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleKelazam
All
I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/18/17
Posts: 1,146
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26934391 - 09/14/20 12:00 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

nope


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.


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Offlineyeah
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Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26934403 - 09/14/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleEminence
Male


Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: yeah]
    #26934411 - 09/14/20 12:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

America is among the most free nations you can live in in multiple ways, but no, there's no such thing as a totally free country obviously. But then again, some people would not want to live in a totally free country if they experienced it. Freedom in all aspects is not inherently a good thing, freedom is just freedom. You can do and experience a lot of good and awful things with total freedom. The more freedom one person has, could also mean the less freedom another has.


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OfflineNorthernerM
splelling chceker
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Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,141
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 18 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence] * 1
    #26934421 - 09/14/20 01:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

We are all indebted to our peers the moment we are born.

An alkaloid does not occur alone, neither does a man.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence]
    #26934441 - 09/14/20 02:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:
The more freedom one person has, could also mean the less freedom another has.




This is not true. If everyone is free how can one oppress another? It can't happen unless we define freedom differently. This seems to be the case. Otherwise, you don't understand freedom.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleEminence
Male


Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Shiithead]
    #26934443 - 09/14/20 02:12 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Because with total freedom in general, there'd be no legally enforced consequences for anything, right? So someone could literally be free to make someone else a slave, taking away that someone else's freedom. What is your definition of total freedom? That only existed before laws were invented.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
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Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence] * 1
    #26934448 - 09/14/20 02:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You don't understand freedom lol

Again... if everyone had total freedom and autonomy, how can one oppress another?

Go ahead, I'll wait.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleEminence
Male


Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Shiithead]
    #26934457 - 09/14/20 02:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Everyone can't have total freedom, because not everyone is respectful of other peoples' freedoms. That's my point. It's not even possible. In your utopian idea of a fully free society, I guess what I am saying can't apply. But by definition, a free utopia can only be imagined.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence] * 1
    #26934460 - 09/14/20 02:57 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Who hurt you?

Total freedom is possible. The contest of freedom is alive and well and hopefully, when it draws near the end, we as a collective choose to be free.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Shiithead]
    #26934467 - 09/14/20 03:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Total freedom means no one can oppress another. You need a dictionary or you need to stop pushing freedom as oppression like it's okay because it's not.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


Edited by Shiithead (09/14/20 03:10 AM)


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InvisibleKelazam
All
I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/18/17
Posts: 1,146
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Shiithead]
    #26934468 - 09/14/20 03:08 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

free will doesn't exist though. One event will always 100% of the time lead to the outcome event, that event being a thought, action, word, anything. Everything happens because of the previous and the previous happened because of the previous's previous and so on to the beginning of time.


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.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Kelazam] * 1
    #26934469 - 09/14/20 03:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It blows my mind how many people here don't want to believe in freedom or can't wrap their heads around it. You'd think a bunch of psych users would be obsessed with being free and liberating others from their minds. Pretty sad state of affairs.


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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InvisibleEminence
Male


Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 16,623
Loc: Richmond, VA Flag
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Kelazam]
    #26934471 - 09/14/20 03:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You are not free to make someone your slave here. Both of our examples work, according to the definition, they're just different ways of looking at it. So I'm just going to stop arguing about it. No clue where you got the idea I was saying oppression was okay..I was just saying that's how some people just are..but whatever


Either way, nobody should hear "land of the free" and take it literally and start talking about how not free it is. No shit, we have laws. We have a lot more freedom than most of the world though.


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InvisibleShiithead
Your Huckleberry
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/05/13
Posts: 9,997
Loc: God's Flat Green Earth
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence]
    #26934483 - 09/14/20 03:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:
No clue where you got the idea I was saying oppression was okay..I was just saying that's how some people just are..but whatever




You said total freedom is not possible because that would infringe on others freedoms. You are equating freedom to oppresion. That is not okay. For that I say you need to educate yourself or go fuck yourself.

Your choice. :smugjerry:


--------------------

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalm 12:6
The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


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OfflineNorthernerM
splelling chceker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,141
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 18 minutes, 44 seconds
Re: The illusion of freedom [Re: Eminence]
    #26934484 - 09/14/20 03:39 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Modern freedom is dependency. If you can truly go live in the woods and support yourself, not a single resource from another person... You are free. I laugh at internet warriors claiming to be free. So naive.

The reality is we depend on one another.

I totally agree with the OP that freedom is an illusion, but not because I can't shoot people who threaten me not tell the police to get fucked. There's few men who can be the butcher, Baker and candlestick maker all at once. Very rare breed.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


Edited by Northerner (09/14/20 08:43 AM)


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