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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26929786 - 09/11/20 11:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: laughingdog] 1
#26929834 - 09/11/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would add that laughingdog is brilliant when he calls attention to multiple ontological levels. This is an insight not properly acknowledged in all sorts of arenas like physics, psychology, neuroscience, and Western thinking in general. And of course something like quantum field theory attempts to delineate levels much deeper than consensus reality where, incidentally, conventional human concepts of causality cease to have precise meaning.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#26930012 - 09/11/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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places or configurations may be more descriptive than levels.
Levels implies hierarchy and hierarchy does not often fit; it introduces false assumptions in schema.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26930319 - 09/11/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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But if the levels are qualitatively different, hierarchy does not apply. Relativity is not in a hierarchical relationship with Newtonian physics, for example, but each theory applies to a different level of nature.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#26930449 - 09/11/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
laughingdog said: From what I have heard physicists are no longer bothered by wave particle duality and instead think in terms of fields.
That is quite accurate. Quantum field theory is now the dominant incarnation of quantum mechanics, and it views all of reality as comprised of varying degrees of field behavior, of which particles are a manifestation, not a cause.
Even the notion of a particle is just a clever way to help explain the phenomenons to ourselves. Those particles are probabilities of finding a type of interaction/"interactor" in a field that we can model as a particle.
Alan watts i think was ahead of his time in physics and no one not even he knew it. Everything is a illusion, smoke and mirrors.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26930477 - 09/11/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (09/11/20 05:57 PM)
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: laughingdog]
#26930505 - 09/11/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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it seems both kinds of knowledge are real, but it is difficult to see the world in both ways at once. natural human thought is an oscillation between the two. determinate, finite, and conclusive or indeterminate, infinite and a best estimate. why the dualistic nature of reality? mystical ideas are true on one level, yet on a rational level they are not true at all. how can both things be true? they are not the same, but they are not different. they appear to be complementary, mutually exclusive aspects of reality.
quantum computer programming is written to exclude any non deterministic solutions from possible solutions; it cuts computing time in half by following the above narrative. it then further eliminates possibilities by excluding the non probable solutions, further cutting solutions again by another magnitude. the final finite solutions are presented by verifying results via a molecular quantum bottleneck, which is, does it fit in a quantum and standard physic scenario. but again, this does nothing to explain the quantum nature of non determinism.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26930515 - 09/11/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
laughingdog said: From what I have heard physicists are no longer bothered by wave particle duality and instead think in terms of fields.
That is quite accurate. Quantum field theory is now the dominant incarnation of quantum mechanics, and it views all of reality as comprised of varying degrees of field behavior, of which particles are a manifestation, not a cause.
Even the notion of a particle is just a clever way to help explain the phenomenons to ourselves. Those particles are probabilities of finding a type of interaction/"interactor" in a field that we can model as a particle.
Alan watts i think was ahead of his time in physics and no one not even he knew it. Everything is a illusion, smoke and mirrors.
if space has an infinite number of dimensions, there is no somewhere to begin until a point is fixed by a will - direction introduced for its own convenience, as we know there is no way to detect absolute motion in empty space.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26930564 - 09/11/20 06:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I posit that the singularity you are looking for in this case is the thing thats reading this.
The point is fixed by you.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#26930570 - 09/11/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Determinism and indeterminism are human concepts. They are opposing perspectives on a single and whole reality. Both concepts are useful and necessary in their proper contexts. Neither is ultimate.
Neato.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#26930573 - 09/11/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: But if the levels are qualitatively different, hierarchy does not apply. Relativity is not in a hierarchical relationship with Newtonian physics, for example, but each theory applies to a different level of nature.
if it is not a case of collecting related matters into a venn diagram on one plane or level or diagram then it is a matter of which wraps which as in containment - like geologic layers - in such cases level maps to a consistent time related geologic idea.
with other ideas, we should be precise in the use of the terms else they wash away clarity rather than revealing new truths.
levels in the 3 dimensional world are like floors in your building - there are no higher levels of meaning, only different meanings, categories, classes, or something like that UNLESS hierarchy is involved or being alluded to but kept esoteric. (some holdover from Vatican decrees, or secret societies all happy to be operating on a different level - intrinsically hierarchically more priviledged - more self important)
Most aspects of relativity are dealt with using a different set of problems than those that are dealt with using classical Newtonian theory. One day, however, the falling apple will be snapped up using relativistic transformations to teleport it onto a plate before it hits anyone's head. It is the same level of apple idea.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: pineninja]
#26930580 - 09/11/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: I posit that the singularity you are looking for in this case is the thing thats reading this.
The point is fixed by you.
can everything be regarded as a single definite thing?
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26930640 - 09/11/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The only thing I can make myself believe is myself and that's as definitive as it get.
Everything else is just a solids guess.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,951
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26931006 - 09/12/20 12:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said: hello p,s & p, i have missed posting here.
what is the reason for a deterministic and non deterministic universal function?
Chaos, and cycles of negative and normal entropy.
Implicit realities are real for us, but not rational or existent explicitly.
Explicit realities are the world and cosmos around us. A chaotic beauty, while we live on our relative heaven in this tesselating field.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: pineninja]
#26931256 - 09/12/20 06:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: The only thing I can make myself believe is myself and that's as definitive as it get.
Everything else is just a solids guess.
will you know yourself if you bumped up against it?
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26931385 - 09/12/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The concepts of determinism and indeterminism come from a perception of reality. Determinism being that which must happen, indeterminism being that which doesn't. Humanness aside I think all is determined. There is a great hidden determinism underlying every manifestation and absence.
The higher order is another part of the illusion of indeterminism. The mysterious is mysterious to us. God knows what it is doing.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26931799 - 09/12/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said:
Quote:
pineninja said: The only thing I can make myself believe is myself and that's as definitive as it get.
Everything else is just a solids guess.
will you know yourself if you bumped up against it?
This morning awareness dawned and found everything but a me. In the afternoon it found a me and it was up to no good, but it was an evil born of ignorance, so even that and this moral judgement are good for nothing. Tonight I’ll go back to not knowing a thing. Maybe awareness does or doesn’t dawn again anew tomorrow or maybe its always been primordial, either way, there are 10,000 things for reality to do for me to begin to appear - and if or when I do appear - I appear unable to say anything useful at all. Why it conjures me at all...I take deep delight in not knowing. I’m training to master being good for nothing.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (09/12/20 01:45 PM)
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26931863 - 09/12/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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it seems, humans can't live without forgetting anymore than they can live without remembering.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26931867 - 09/12/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Indeedlydo.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] 1
#26931943 - 09/12/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said: it seems, humans can't live without forgetting anymore than they can live without remembering.
make sense much doesn't
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