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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26929883 - 09/11/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not concerned with the legal argument. Legal institutions can be corrupted. That's kind of the whole point here.

Do you think that it's appropriate to consider 'Trump disparaging a private citizen over a personal matter' as falling within the scope of presidential duties? Especially when we consider the exceptional protections (such as, in my understanding, immunity to defamation) given to those acting in an official capacity.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26929892 - 09/11/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Do you think that it's appropriate to consider 'Trump disparaging a private citizen over a personal matter' as falling within the scope of presidential duties?



Poor choice of wording I think.  The question should be:  "Do you think that it's appropriate to consider 'Trump defending himself against a unproven attack while President' as falling within the scope of his presidential duties?"

To me, the answer is if Trump didn't rape her, then yes, but if he's lying, then he should have to pay.


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26929893 - 09/11/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

These people are paid by our taxes, I dont think my tax dollars should go towards
the defense of a president accused of something that has nothing to do with
political issues.

Just my opinion not based on political expertise


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26929913 - 09/11/20 12:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

There are two separate issues here, really, although they will likely be decided based on the same factors:

1. Should the DOJ defend him? and
2. Should he enjoy immunity from defamation suits?

I couldn't care less about the first part, really.  The second part is where the real harm comes, though.  If he's immune, he can basically say anything about anyone, including talking shit about business competitors, and no one can touch him.  It makes the presidency his private marketing force.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26929917 - 09/11/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Do you think that it's appropriate to consider 'Trump disparaging a private citizen over a personal matter' as falling within the scope of presidential duties?



Poor choice of wording I think.  The question should be:  "Do you think that it's appropriate to consider 'Trump defending himself against a unproven attack while President' as falling within the scope of his presidential duties?"

To me, the answer is if Trump didn't rape her, then yes, but if he's lying, then he should have to pay.



How would responding to the personal criticism of private citizens fall under his duties as president?

Also, if Trump and the DOJ successfully argue that his statements were made in his official capacity as president, (my understanding is that) he will be considered immune to any claim of defamation, and the lawsuit effectively ended. In other words, if Trump is lying, this tactic will successfully prevent  the truth from being revealed. If he's lying, he won't have to pay because the state institutions will have shielded him from the defamation lawsuit. That's why I consider it a corruption of your legal institutions to conflate Trump with your government.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26930016 - 09/11/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It sounds like a bad law to me, but it may well be the law.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26930150 - 09/11/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, political corruption (the use of powers by government officials or their network contacts for illegitimate private gain) can sometimes seemingly operate within the law. It's understandable why a law would exist to prevent federal employees, acting within their official duties, from defamation lawsuits. That this protection would be extended to a federal employee acting outside their official duties is a pretty clear corruption of the intended function of the institution, with resulting private gain.

Even if the courts agre with Barrs claim, that should be all the more reason to rally against this act of political corruption.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26930178 - 09/11/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Yes, political corruption (the use of powers by government officials or their network contacts for illegitimate private gain) can sometimes seemingly operate within the law.




No doubt. Politicians are to blame for being corrupt, but our system itself is equally to blame for allowing such corruption in the first place.


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
    #26930211 - 09/11/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I couldn't care less about the first part, really.  The second part is where the real harm comes, though.  If he's immune, he can basically say anything about anyone, including talking shit about business competitors, and no one can touch him.  It makes the presidency his private marketing force.




As opposed to the many many other times he's used the presidency as a private marketing force?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos]
    #26930246 - 09/11/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

As illustrated by those times.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26930269 - 09/11/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

And it wont end after his presidency; hopefully Mother Nature will take care of it in short order.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26930289 - 09/11/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It won't. He has another 20-25 years left, though I expect the second half of those he will spend as a vegetable.

Of course, as Herman Cain's twitter account has shown us, death doesn't stop these cockroaches.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26930421 - 09/11/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Yes, political corruption (the use of powers by government officials or their network contacts for illegitimate private gain) can sometimes seemingly operate within the law. It's understandable why a law would exist to prevent federal employees, acting within their official duties, from defamation lawsuits. That this protection would be extended to a federal employee acting outside their official duties is a pretty clear corruption of the intended function of the institution, with resulting private gain.

Even if the courts agre with Barrs claim, that should be all the more reason to rally against this act of political corruption.



I agree.  But if the judge rules in Trump's favor, it shows Trump is pretty damn clever.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't weigh in on what the judge's decision should be.

But I'll agree that in principal (ignoring current laws), this shouldn't be allowed.


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26930585 - 09/11/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

How does that make him clever?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
    #26930596 - 09/11/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

How would legally getting the Government to pay for your legal bills and also act as the defendant make Trump clever?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26930599 - 09/11/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That was my question to you.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
    #26930899 - 09/11/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It's also my answer to you.  By legally getting the Government to pay for your legal bills and also act as the defendant.

Clever!


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26930903 - 09/11/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What makes you think that was trumps idea?


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
    #26930927 - 09/11/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Art of the Deal , its so clear.


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26931098 - 09/12/20 01:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
You said this: "It turns out Trump and Barr were correct after all, and the mainstream news duped everyone again."

Trump explicitly told people in North Carolina to vote twice as a test to test the system:

Quote:

On your ballots, if you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go make sure it counted, and then if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. You just vote. And then if they tabulate it very late, which they shouldn’t be doing, they’ll see you voted and so it won’t count. So, send it in early, and then go and vote. And if it’s not tabulated, you vote, and the vote is gonna count.




Voting twice is illegal in North Carolina. As Kryptos' has pointed out, even NY state law - designed to allow a change of mind - considers fraudulently voting twice to be illegal. Can you explain how Trump was "correct after all"?



Per your quote above, Trump said "if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote" and again "if it’s not tabulated, you vote"

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
As for Barr, I guess he was correct in stating that there was a possibility that North Carolina allowed voting twice - but we now know that it's not possible, so basically Barr was correct in stating he was ignorant of the law. Why do you feel this impacts the initial claim by Trump for voters in North Carolina to vote twice?



Actually, the initial claim was:  "Barr claimed to not know if voting twice is illegal..."

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
It's also odd you consider that mainstream news duped everyone, considering this quote you provided shows the CNN interviewer was correct regarding the law in North Carolina:

Quote:

Barr: I don't know what the law in the particular state says...

Blitzer: You can't vote twice.






Yes, of course voting twice is illegal in all states, but that's not what Trump actually suggested, is it?

If Trump was an establishment candidate, like Biden, I'll bet the media would have let this go, like they let so much of what Biden does go.




Voting twice was exactly what Trump suggested, repeatedly. Maybe a federal investigator could cast a ballot by mail and then try to vote in person, to test the system, if it was part of an established investigation. Telling private citizens to do it is just trolling and encouraging felonies.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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