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Offlineataribravo
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LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth
    #26929839 - 09/11/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Eatyualive said "my blenderless LI's take anywhere from 10-14 days to colonize on grain. i can get blended LI to colonize in 5 days on grain. g2g is 6-7 days.
personally they all work well."

That being said, I have 8 bags of oats inoculated with blended LI that aren't showing anything after 6 days. Here was the method used:

2 clean petris into 300ml of distilled water and blended for 3 seconds 2 times with 5 seconds in between. Then, more or less, evenly distributed into the 8 bags. So about 35ml of LI per bag with 3 quarts of oat grain.

Any obvious issues that can be pointed out? Too much blending? Not enough agar? Not enough LI per bag?

Thanks!!


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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: ataribravo]
    #26929940 - 09/11/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I have been using less than 1 "full" plate blended with 300mL water and use it to inoculate 10 bags. I usually let plates grow within 1 to 1.5cm of the edge of the dish. Basically I cut around the perimeter of the agar plate making sure to cut off the outer ring where it has touched the edge of plate (This is pretty common practice)



I always see growth after a few days. 6 days and no growth whatsoever doesn't sound great.


You got pictures of the agar plate(s) you used?


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #26929965 - 09/11/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I’ve never used a blender so I don’t know how different it is but with Blenderless LI I don’t see anything until day 7 usually, but then it’s suddenly at like 50% with myc thickening up all over. I shake really well after pouring the LI and make sure everything is coated as much as I can.


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #26930033 - 09/11/20 01:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sh4d0ws said:
I have been using less than 1 "full" plate blended with 300mL water and use it to inoculate 10 bags. I usually let plates grow within 1 to 1.5cm of the edge of the dish. Basically I cut around the perimeter of the agar plate making sure to cut off the outer ring where it has touched the edge of plate (This is pretty common practice)



I always see growth after a few days. 6 days and no growth whatsoever doesn't sound great.


You got pictures of the agar plate(s) you used?



Here is a photo of what I would use next. Similar to what I had used.



It's a little frosty because it just came out of the fridge...


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26930035 - 09/11/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Roger Clemency said:
I’ve never used a blender so I don’t know how different it is but with Blenderless LI I don’t see anything until day 7 usually, but then it’s suddenly at like 50% with myc thickening up all over. I shake really well after pouring the LI and make sure everything is coated as much as I can.



I shook the bag pretty well also. Perhaps things are happening at the center and, as you said, it will show all over.


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: ataribravo]
    #26930094 - 09/11/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm doing a side by side right now. Using my LC to oat spawn bags are at day 12 right no with NO sign of growth. Bags of WBS were inoculated with the same LC 6 days ago and are at almost 50% colonized. All my other spawn with oats are taking so FUCKING long. I'm thinking that there is some kind of fungicide present. There for horses from a local farm. I don't think its a prep problem. I want to use oats because of availability and cost, but as of right now I'm special ordering more rye and hoping for the best with all the spawn I got going.


Edited by Spirit-Crusher (09/11/20 02:28 PM)


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: Spirit-Crusher]
    #26930518 - 09/11/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Spirit-Crusher said:
I'm doing a side by side right now. Using my LC to oat spawn bags are at day 12 right no with NO sign of growth. Bags of WBS were inoculated with the same LC 6 days ago and are at almost 50% colonized. All my other spawn with oats are taking so FUCKING long. I'm thinking that there is some kind of fungicide present. There for horses from a local farm. I don't think its a prep problem. I want to use oats because of availability and cost, but as of right now I'm special ordering more rye and hoping for the best with all the spawn I got going.



Interesting... I have used rye berries from the beginning and just changed over to oats. I'm also getting feed grade grain so it still has the outer "shell" on it which is apparently a requirement. It's supposed to be organic grain but who knows.

I boiled mine for 40 minutes and then PCed for 3 hours (4 3qt bags). I used a flow hood, gloves, tyvek sleeves and a mask during LI transfer, so it's as sterile a process as I can get it. I've just been disappointed in the lack of colonization after hearing how fast this was supposed to be. Of course I'm using blended LI vs your LC. I'm going to try non-blended next time to see how that goes.

Best of luck to you!


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: ataribravo]
    #26930656 - 09/11/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ataribravo said:
Quote:

Spirit-Crusher said:
I'm doing a side by side right now. Using my LC to oat spawn bags are at day 12 right no with NO sign of growth. Bags of WBS were inoculated with the same LC 6 days ago and are at almost 50% colonized. All my other spawn with oats are taking so FUCKING long. I'm thinking that there is some kind of fungicide present. There for horses from a local farm. I don't think its a prep problem. I want to use oats because of availability and cost, but as of right now I'm special ordering more rye and hoping for the best with all the spawn I got going.



Interesting... I have used rye berries from the beginning and just changed over to oats. I'm also getting feed grade grain so it still has the outer "shell" on it which is apparently a requirement. It's supposed to be organic grain but who knows.

I boiled mine for 40 minutes and then PCed for 3 hours (4 3qt bags). I used a flow hood, gloves, tyvek sleeves and a mask during LI transfer, so it's as sterile a process as I can get it. I've just been disappointed in the lack of colonization after hearing how fast this was supposed to be. Of course I'm using blended LI vs your LC. I'm going to try non-blended next time to see how that goes.

Best of luck to you!


I've been adding them to a pot of boiling water, turning off heat, putting on lid for 45 minutes. Then straining and letting dry over night. Then pressure cooking for 4-5 hours (8) 3# bags per presto. Im also using a flow hood, sleeves, gloves, ect.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: Spirit-Crusher]
    #26930941 - 09/11/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

And now maybe yall see why i say Rye is king and oats can suck a hard one?


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: LotKid]
    #26931842 - 09/12/20 01:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
And now maybe yall see why i say Rye is king and oats can suck a hard one?



I guess we all have to figure things out for ourselves. It just seems crazy other people have good success with them. It would seem there is another variable at play, whether that's fungicides or prep technique. All I know is I"m done using them on a large scale till I figure that out.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: Spirit-Crusher]
    #26931925 - 09/12/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

IME oats are inconsistant.


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: Spirit-Crusher]
    #26931958 - 09/12/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Spirit-Crusher said:
Quote:

ataribravo said:
Quote:

Spirit-Crusher said:
I'm doing a side by side right now. Using my LC to oat spawn bags are at day 12 right no with NO sign of growth. Bags of WBS were inoculated with the same LC 6 days ago and are at almost 50% colonized. All my other spawn with oats are taking so FUCKING long. I'm thinking that there is some kind of fungicide present. There for horses from a local farm. I don't think its a prep problem. I want to use oats because of availability and cost, but as of right now I'm special ordering more rye and hoping for the best with all the spawn I got going.



Interesting... I have used rye berries from the beginning and just changed over to oats. I'm also getting feed grade grain so it still has the outer "shell" on it which is apparently a requirement. It's supposed to be organic grain but who knows.

I boiled mine for 40 minutes and then PCed for 3 hours (4 3qt bags). I used a flow hood, gloves, tyvek sleeves and a mask during LI transfer, so it's as sterile a process as I can get it. I've just been disappointed in the lack of colonization after hearing how fast this was supposed to be. Of course I'm using blended LI vs your LC. I'm going to try non-blended next time to see how that goes.

Best of luck to you!


I've been adding them to a pot of boiling water, turning off heat, putting on lid for 45 minutes. Then straining and letting dry over night. Then pressure cooking for 4-5 hours (8) 3# bags per presto. Im also using a flow hood, sleeves, gloves, ect.



About PCing, I've read that you should allow space all the way around to allow even heat penetration. But if you're PCing for 4-5 hours (vs my 3) then I would think that would have to be sufficient no matter how packed the Presto is.

I don't mind going back to rye, but I agree with you that something is amiss because too many others on here are having success. I am using Bodhisatta's Easy AF Oat Prep TEK (making grain spawn). It sounds so simple...


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: ataribravo]
    #26931987 - 09/12/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The only time 3 hours has been sufficient is if you only do a few bags. But I have the mentality that whats the point of doing a sterilizing run not at full capacity? 4 hours minimum is whats been working for me. So with duel prestos in 5-6 hours I can do 48 pounds of grain.


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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: LotKid]
    #26932007 - 09/12/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
And now maybe yall see why i say Rye is king and oats can suck a hard one?




I don't have access to rye but I solely use wheat these days. I still have oats laying around in the garage.

Oats worked for me, but I ran into problems a lot more often and found them to be a lot harder to get moisture content right.

Wheat gives me a lot of room for error and still turns out fine so I don't have to be meticulous

I get feed wheat at $13 for 25kg bags.



@ataribravo

If you have no growth at all though I think you have problems beyond type of grain being used but honestly maybe there is some kind of fungicide or sometehing present like spirit crusher mentioned :???:




The plates you posted don't look terrible but there is some inconsistent spots. not the clearest pics due to being fresh out the fridge so I am not 100% sure


Also I did an experiment a few cycles back with blended LI vs. blenderless (munch's method) and found the blended LI to be slightly faster, but both methods worked well and the blenderless was only a few days behind the others. I run 4lb bags.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #26932141 - 09/12/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Wheat is my #2 choice if rye isnt avail


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: LotKid]
    #26934404 - 09/14/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

So I'm gonna hold off on using any more of these oats in bulk. I'm sitting on a few hundred pounds. Ordered rye (its been unavailable in my area because of covid). I AM gonna do a few small run tests on those oats because I have some hypothesis.

My first theory was a fungicide being use because a liquid culture added to grain was 10cc to oats with no signs of growth 3 weeks in now. Same LC added 10cc to WBS now at 75% colonization less than 2 weeks in.

Now all my other masters using wedges are progressing. They look healthy, but they are much slower than with rye. So I'm thinking maybe my problem is moisture content. I'm gonna cook them a little more than al dente and not dry them completely then throw a wedge at them. If jump and or colonization speed is faster than I can rule out fungicide.


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Offlinesporecap
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: Spirit-Crusher]
    #26934414 - 09/14/20 01:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You could try to intentionally contaminate a test bag, by leaving it open
for 1h after sterilizing, for example. If nothing grows, likely there is indeed
something iffy with the oats.


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Re: LI to oat grain spawn bags showing no growth [Re: sporecap]
    #26934453 - 09/14/20 02:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm using 16 (3#) spawn bags as a test. All that were oats are doing nothing. Every single one that was WBS is almost colonized. Even if the oats were dry you would think you'd see some growth, especially with liquid inoculate.


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