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Offlinethealienthatategod
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topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle?
    #26928044 - 09/10/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

hello p,s & p, i have missed posting here.

what is the reason for a deterministic and non deterministic universal function?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 2
    #26928063 - 09/10/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Determinism and indeterminism are human concepts. They are opposing perspectives on a single and whole reality. Both concepts are useful and necessary in their proper contexts. Neither is ultimate.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26928118 - 09/10/20 11:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I like the way you determined the answer.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26928124 - 09/10/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Another way to look at it is using statistics.
As DQ states this uses both polarities;
this is what casinos do:
they do not know who will win or lose on any given play or night;
but they do know, that they will make
regular profits


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26928224 - 09/10/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Determinism and indeterminism are human concepts. They are opposing perspectives on a single and whole reality. Both concepts are useful and necessary in their proper contexts. Neither is ultimate.




hi DQ, that is real and meaningful; yet does nothing to to explain the quantum nature of non determinism.

standard physics states that an infinite function, a function that never reaches a unity state, is not viable: and yet evidence of the geometrical circular shape abounds in the universe.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26928228 - 09/10/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

if you play roulette long enough, there will come an evening where your every bet wins.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 2
    #26928549 - 09/10/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Are you sure there are no complementary aspects of determinism in quantum theory?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26928609 - 09/10/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
if you play roulette long enough, there will come an evening where your every bet wins.




it ain't necessarily so. The monkey typewriter shakespeare metaphor has never seemed believable to me, just like the "we only use 10% of our brains" is false.

Casinos remained pre covid at least a very profitable business. And they are only one example. All forms of insurance likewise work due to the odds. And they also are hugely profitable.

From what I have heard physicists are no  longer bothered by wave particle duality and instead think in terms of fields.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26928676 - 09/10/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

no, i'm not sure, but it seems that determinism maybe a possible link between standard physics and quantum physics.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26928677 - 09/10/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

statistically, one should expect a certain number of remarkable coincidences to occur.  in fact, this universe requires these remarkable coincidences.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26928678 - 09/10/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
From what I have heard physicists are no  longer bothered by wave particle duality and instead think in terms of fields.





That is quite accurate. Quantum field theory is now the dominant incarnation of quantum mechanics, and it views all of reality as comprised of varying degrees of field behavior, of which particles are a manifestation, not a cause.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26928680 - 09/10/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
no, i'm not sure, but it seems that determinism maybe a possible link between standard physics and quantum physics.





Well you have things like many worlds and the ontological interpretation. How do you know they are wrong?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26928710 - 09/10/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

i do not know.  the world of my current immediate perceptions/sensations/thoughts is caused by more than the objects in 3d space.

how does an entangled particle behave when dealing with growing, geometically expanding possibilities?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26928784 - 09/10/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I have no idea. I have to suppose that, in whatever information "field" in which the entangled system operates, somehow the possibilities are enfolded in some higher space or dimension. As to how these enfolded variables have the dynamics that they do, or which possibilities are selected from the infinite, is a total mystery.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26928827 - 09/10/20 06:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

the particle will be consistent until it must become a wave which presents other possibilities.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26929098 - 09/10/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
hello p,s & p, i have missed posting here.

what is the reason for a deterministic and non deterministic universal function?




The same yin and yang occurs elsewhere. We simply miss it because our language generally ignores this aspect of our experiencing.

When we become one with something self disappears.
This is the same as non resistance.

When we separate from someone or something or resist a thought or sensation,
self arises.

So self is not fixed, but dynamic.
Our language does not account for this, so this zen buddhist way of talking may sound strange.

So one could equate the resistant self to non determinism. Thus protestors have the illusion they are becoming more free. We see the same thing in disobedient 2 year olds.

So one could equate the non-resistant self to determinism, or "thy will be done" and going with the flow.

Its all just the changing wave function of self, don't be mislead by words, like non determinism and determinism.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26929113 - 09/10/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
From what I have heard physicists are no  longer bothered by wave particle duality and instead think in terms of fields.





That is quite accurate. Quantum field theory is now the dominant incarnation of quantum mechanics, and it views all of reality as comprised of varying degrees of field behavior, of which particles are a manifestation, not a cause.



Are you saying particles don't have effects?

To have an effect on something is to cause it to be such and such..


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #26929174 - 09/10/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

nothing in a dream causes anything else in a dream
although it appears that there are causes in a dream;
and it is of course also true of
novels

ordinary language assumes there is only one level of reality
in Buddhism this is not the case
see for example:

"Two truths doctrine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Buddhist doctrine of the two truths (Wylie: bden pa gnyis) differentiates between two levels of satya (a Sanskrit and Pali word meaning truth or reality) in the teaching of the Buddha: the "conventional" or "provisional" (saṁvṛti) truth, and the "ultimate" (paramārtha) truth.[1]"


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #26929536 - 09/11/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

As laughingdog indicates, I would suggest that standard concepts of causality may create an illusion.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: topography from the higher dimensions - what does it mean to square the circle? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26929716 - 09/11/20 10:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

oh no, not alternate truths!!!


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