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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928789 - 09/10/20 06:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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King alligator of the swamp
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Seriously_trippin]
#26929135 - 09/10/20 10:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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@fal- So you claim that I'm wrong when I said barr didnt know if it was illegal to vote twice, then you supply interview transcripts etc that prove that barr clearly said he didnt know if it was illegal.
Dude you love to argue so much you literally argued against a claim, then supported the claim with evidence
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26929201 - 09/10/20 11:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: @fal- So you claim that I'm wrong when I said barr didnt know if it was illegal to vote twice, then you supply interview transcripts etc that prove that barr clearly said he didnt know if it was illegal.
Dude you love to argue so much you literally argued against a claim, then supported the claim with evidence
What he said in that some states you can cast a ballot by mail, and then vote in person, and the bottom of the New York State Board of elections website clearly proves this (which I mentioned earlier):
Quote:
Even if you request or cast and return an absentee ballot, you may still go to the polls and vote in person. The Election Law recognizes that plans change. The Board of Elections is required to check the poll book before canvassing any absentee ballot. If the voter comes to the poll site, on Election Day or during early voting and votes in person, the absentee ballot is set aside and not counted.
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos]
#26929415 - 09/11/20 06:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Ignorance of the law is not a defence - particularly from the top AG and president.
AG is law enforcement, and for LEO ignorance of the law is a valid defense as long as they truly believe they are upholding a law. Only regular citizens get dinged for ignorance of the law.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: How does stated ignorance of NC state law ("I don't know what the law in the particular state says") and NY state allowing voters to cast two ballots make "Trump and Barr were correct after all"?
Because Barr said it was possible in some states, and it depends on the state's laws. Is that not correct?
No, that is not correct. Intentionally voting twice is illegal, even in New York, even with their "plans change" thing.
Quote:
In Rochester, N.Y., a man admitted to voting twice in the 2004 presidential election, the second time by filing an affidavit ballot at a polling place. He said he did it to get two “I voted” stickers that entitled him to free beer and food at a local bar. He was sentenced to 36 hours of community service.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26929511 - 09/11/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Y'all are kinda just arguing semantics depending on what you consider "voting" and what Barr meant by the word. The reality is that Barr, as hard as it is to believe, is human. There's no way he would know the law in every state. No lawyer can do that. It's probably impossible to know all the laws in any state, frankly. That's just not practical, and lawyers almost always have to look up anything to be sure.
I'm not even sure that it's illegal to cast multiple votes in any state, frankly.
What trump said was foolish, reckless, and irresponsible, for sure. It also showed his lack of familiarity with voting. I know of no mechanism where one can check to see if his/her vote was tabulated, so trump's suggestion couldn't be followed. Instead, his suggestion is likely to lead to more double votes in an abundance of caution, and these double votes will have to be weeded out by the states.
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26929522 - 09/11/20 08:16 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is illegal to intentionally vote multiple times in every state. The only difference between states is if it's a misdemeanor or a felony.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26929523 - 09/11/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Define "vote" as used in your post, please. Do you mean fill out a ballot and send it in? Or do you mean actually have your choice in an election counted?
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christopera
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26929526 - 09/11/20 08:20 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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In PA it’s defined by signing a ballot.
It’s pretty cut and clear here.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: christopera]
#26929527 - 09/11/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm asking what KRYPTOS means.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: christopera]
#26929530 - 09/11/20 08:23 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: In PA it’s defined by signing a ballot.
Do you happen to have the PA statute that defines it?
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christopera
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26929561 - 09/11/20 08:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
christopera said: In PA it’s defined by signing a ballot.
Do you happen to have the PA statute that defines it?
I don’t currently and I’m not going to look it up. Home schooling my child due to Covid has made me exhausted. Maybe this weekend I’ll get it together.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: christopera]
#26929564 - 09/11/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'd appreciate that. I just tried to search election law in PA, and it appears that title 25 is the relevant part, but within title 25, I can't seem to find any specific statutes other than the ones about electors and procedures regarding them.
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26929591 - 09/11/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Define "vote" as used in your post, please. Do you mean fill out a ballot and send it in? Or do you mean actually have your choice in an election counted?
Vote as in fill out a ballot and sign it with the intention of it being counted. So, things get a little bit fuzzy with provisional ballots, but even with provisional ballots:
Quote:
In Rochester, N.Y., a man admitted to voting twice in the 2004 presidential election, the second time by filing an affidavit ballot at a polling place. He said he did it to get two “I voted” stickers that entitled him to free beer and food at a local bar. He was sentenced to 36 hours of community service.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26929596 - 09/11/20 09:23 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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So, you're saying that it's a crime to fill out two ballots with the intention they both be counted. That's absolutely not what Trump suggested, though.
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26929607 - 09/11/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, what Trump suggested was that people vote twice in NC, which is illegal. NC law expressly forbids voting twice, with no mention of intention. The definition that I provided and used in my post in narrower than the definition used by the state of NC, because my post applied to all 50 states, some of which are more lax in their definitions (see: NY).
Interestingly, NC law also forbids telling people to vote twice, so Trump committed a state felony with his statement.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26929618 - 09/11/20 09:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, he didn't. At least not under your definition of "vote." He suggested that if one vote isn't counted, to cast another one. That is not casting two ballots "with the intention that [both] be counted" The law doesn't have to mention intent, since your definition of "vote" includes an intent element.
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26929630 - 09/11/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Again: my definition of "vote", as used in the post where I said it is illegal to vote twice in all 50 states, is different than the definition of vote used by the state of North Carolina. This is because I intended that post to apply to all 50 states.
Unlike Trump, who told a crowd in NC to vote twice. Under state law, he personally committed a felony while encouraging his audience to go out and commit felonies.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26929642 - 09/11/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disagree. Based on what you've posted, I think Trump lacked the requisite intent.
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26929650 - 09/11/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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NC state law does not require intent. Only the action of voting twice.
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Enlil
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26929654 - 09/11/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: NC state law does not require intent. Only the action of voting twice.
You're wrong. Shivas specifically quoted the law:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: N.C.G.S. § 163-275(7) makes it a Class I felony for a voter, “with intent to commit a fraud to register or vote at more than one precinct or more than one time…in the same primary or election.”
Also, protip: Almost every criminal violation requires some level of intent for conviction. If someone tells you a law doesn't require intent to prosecute, you should assume they are wrong unless/until they point to binding authority to support the claim.
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