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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,833
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928006 - 09/10/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That'll be up to the court to decide, but it sure seems like cherry picking to call this an official communication and then claim his tweets about government business are not.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Enlil]
#26928029 - 09/10/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Barr claimed to not know if voting twice is illegal to cleanup trumps voter fraud mess.
I wouldnt trust his opinion on much. Seems he cares less about the law and cares more about being the best sychophant he can be.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: natedawgnow]
#26928144 - 09/10/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Barr claimed to not know if voting twice is illegal...
Neither Trump nor Barr said that one voter could have two votes. Here is an excerpt from the CNN interview with Barr (watch from about 1:05):
Blitzer: That would be illegal if they did that — if somebody mailed in a ballot and then actually showed up to vote in person — that would be illegal.
Barr: I don't know what the law in the particular state says...
Blitzer: You can't vote twice.
Barr: Well, I don't know what the law in the particular state says, and when that vote becomes final.
Blitzer: Is there any state that says you can vote twice?
Barr: Well, there's some - maybe you can change your vote up to a particular time, I don't know what the law is, so I'm not going to offer...
Now check out the bottom of the New York State Board of elections website:
Quote:
Even if you request or cast and return an absentee ballot, you may still go to the polls and vote in person. The Election Law recognizes that plans change. The Board of Elections is required to check the poll book before canvassing any absentee ballot. If the voter comes to the poll site, on Election Day or during early voting and votes in person, the absentee ballot is set aside and not counted.
It turns out Trump and Barr were correct after all, and the mainstream news duped everyone again.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26928262 - 09/10/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Most election law is defined at the state level, and I believe Trump’s comments were made to an audience in North Carolina. Why do you think quoting New York state legislation is relevant?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26928276 - 09/10/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Because Barr made it very clear " I don't know what the law in the particular state says", and that there was a possibility North Carolina's law allowed them to vote both ways, like New York's law does.
As you said yourself "election law is defined at the state level".
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26928283 - 09/10/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Personally, I think the North Carolina State Board of Elections is far more relevant:
Quote:
Sep 3, 2020
Raleigh, N.C. – The following is a message to North Carolina voters from Karen Brinson Bell, executive director of the North Carolina State Board of Elections:
It is illegal to vote twice in an election. N.C.G.S. § 163-275(7) makes it a Class I felony for a voter, “with intent to commit a fraud to register or vote at more than one precinct or more than one time…in the same primary or election.” Attempting to vote twice in an election or soliciting someone to do so also is a violation of North Carolina law.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928290 - 09/10/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Some states allow you to request that your absentee ballot be invalidated but that’s not what Trump said...he said “send it in early and then go and vote and if it’s not tabulated, you vote and the vote is gonna count”. Where did he say anything about requesting the mail in ballot be invalidated? As it stands, his initial statement was suggesting that people deliberately vote twice. Whether it’s to test the system or not, it’s still fraud and a felony in most states to do so. In fact, the North Carolina (where Trunp made the statement) State Board of Elections actually issued a statement to reiterate that it is in fact illegal to vote twice and that there are ways to check on the status of one's mail in ballot without going to the polls in person day-of and voting twice. It could be surmised that Trump actually just wants to sow discord/confusion/clog up the polls or anything he can in order to cast doubt on the process. Do you think the NC Election Board was duped by the media or actually concerned by Trump's statement?
Quote:
Raleigh Sep 3, 2020 Raleigh, N.C. – The following is a message to North Carolina voters from Karen Brinson Bell, executive director of the North Carolina State Board of Elections:
It is illegal to vote twice in an election. N.C.G.S. § 163-275(7) makes it a Class I felony for a voter, “with intent to commit a fraud to register or vote at more than one precinct or more than one time…in the same primary or election.” Attempting to vote twice in an election or soliciting someone to do so also is a violation of North Carolina law.
There are numerous checks in place in North Carolina that prevent people from double voting. Electronic pollbooks with information about who has already voted are used at every early voting site. If a voter tries to check in who has already voted, they will be prevented from voting a regular ballot. A voter will be offered a provisional ballot if they insist on voting, and this ballot will be researched after Election Day to determine whether it should be counted.
On Election Day, voters who have voted absentee are removed from the pollbook, which is updated before voting starts at 6:30 a.m. Absentee ballots that are received on Election Day are not counted until after the election, and this prevents double voting.
Also, the State Board conducts audits after each election that check voter history against ballots cast and would detect if someone tries to vote more than once in an election. Because absentee ballots and early voting ballots are retrievable, if someone tries to get around the system, their ballot can be retrieved and not counted, so it will not affect the outcome of an election.
The State Board has a dedicated investigations team that investigates allegations of double voting, which are referred to prosecutors when warranted.
If you request an absentee by-mail ballot but decide later that you would like to vote in person instead, you may. You should discard your absentee ballot. Do not send it back in.
If you have already placed your ballot in the mail but are not sure whether it has been accepted by your county board of elections, North Carolina offers a few ways to check the status of your absentee by-mail ballot without leaving your home.
Voters can:
Check your voter record at the State Board’s Voter Search Tool to find out whether your ballot was accepted by your county board of elections. This information will appear in the voter record after a ballot has been accepted. Sign up for BallotTrax, when it launches in the next few days, to track your ballot through the system. BallotTrax is a new service that will allow voters to track their ballot through the mail and confirm receipt by the county board of elections, much like they can track their online order or pizza delivery. When it launches, a link will be available at NCSBE.gov. Contact your county board of elections if you have questions about your ballot status. The State Board office strongly discourages people from showing up at the polls on Election Day to check whether their absentee ballot was counted. That is not necessary, and it would lead to longer lines and the possibility of spreading COVID-19.
North Carolina elections officials encourage voters to request their ballot as soon as possible and return it as soon as they are ready to do so. By doing so, you can track your ballot and ensure your vote counts.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928296 - 09/10/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Because Barr made it very clear " I don't know what the law in the particular state says", and that there was a possibility North Carolina's law allowed them to vote both ways, like New York's law does.
And he was wrong about that possibility being legal in North Carolina. How does stated ignorance of NC state law ("I don't know what the law in the particular state says") and NY state allowing voters to cast two ballots make "Trump and Barr were correct after all"?
Ignorance of the law is not a defence - particularly from the top AG and president.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26928300 - 09/10/20 01:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Personally, I think the North Carolina State Board of Elections is far more relevant
Obviously. But Barr said he didn't know the laws of every state. He said "there's some - maybe you can change your vote up to a particular time"
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26928313 - 09/10/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: And he was wrong about that possibility being legal in North Carolina.
No, there WAS a possibility that North Carolina had a similar law than New York. He clearly said he didn't know.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: How does stated ignorance of NC state law ("I don't know what the law in the particular state says") and NY state allowing voters to cast two ballots make "Trump and Barr were correct after all"?
Because Barr said it was possible in some states, and it depends on the state's laws. Is that not correct?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928361 - 09/10/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Ignorance of the law is not a defence - particularly from the top AG and president.
AG is law enforcement, and for LEO ignorance of the law is a valid defense as long as they truly believe they are upholding a law. Only regular citizens get dinged for ignorance of the law.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: How does stated ignorance of NC state law ("I don't know what the law in the particular state says") and NY state allowing voters to cast two ballots make "Trump and Barr were correct after all"?
Because Barr said it was possible in some states, and it depends on the state's laws. Is that not correct?
No, that is not correct. Intentionally voting twice is illegal, even in New York, even with their "plans change" thing.
Quote:
In Rochester, N.Y., a man admitted to voting twice in the 2004 presidential election, the second time by filing an affidavit ballot at a polling place. He said he did it to get two “I voted” stickers that entitled him to free beer and food at a local bar. He was sentenced to 36 hours of community service.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Kryptos]
#26928378 - 09/10/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok Donald Trump wasn’t sure if he was telling people to do something illegal. Wow. That’s so much better.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: koods]
#26928406 - 09/10/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Donald Trump has a long history of telling people to do illegal things, telling them he's got their back, and then mysteriously disappearing.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928496 - 09/10/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: And he was wrong about that possibility being legal in North Carolina.
No, there WAS a possibility that North Carolina had a similar law than New York. He clearly said he didn't know.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: How does stated ignorance of NC state law ("I don't know what the law in the particular state says") and NY state allowing voters to cast two ballots make "Trump and Barr were correct after all"?
Because Barr said it was possible in some states, and it depends on the state's laws. Is that not correct?
You said this: "It turns out Trump and Barr were correct after all, and the mainstream news duped everyone again."
Trump explicitly told people in North Carolina to vote twice as a test to test the system:
Quote:
On your ballots, if you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go make sure it counted, and then if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. You just vote. And then if they tabulate it very late, which they shouldn’t be doing, they’ll see you voted and so it won’t count. So, send it in early, and then go and vote. And if it’s not tabulated, you vote, and the vote is gonna count.
Voting twice is illegal in North Carolina. As Kryptos' has pointed out, even NY state law - designed to allow a change of mind - considers fraudulently voting twice to be illegal. Can you explain how Trump was "correct after all"?
As for Barr, I guess he was correct in stating that there was a possibility that North Carolina allowed voting twice - but we now know that it's not possible, so basically Barr was correct in stating he was ignorant of the law. Why do you feel this impacts the initial claim by Trump for voters in North Carolina to vote twice?
It's also odd you consider that mainstream news duped everyone, considering this quote you provided shows the CNN interviewer was correct regarding the law in North Carolina:
Quote:
Barr: I don't know what the law in the particular state says...
Blitzer: You can't vote twice.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26928618 - 09/10/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: You said this: "It turns out Trump and Barr were correct after all, and the mainstream news duped everyone again."
Trump explicitly told people in North Carolina to vote twice as a test to test the system:
Quote:
On your ballots, if you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go make sure it counted, and then if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. You just vote. And then if they tabulate it very late, which they shouldn’t be doing, they’ll see you voted and so it won’t count. So, send it in early, and then go and vote. And if it’s not tabulated, you vote, and the vote is gonna count.
Voting twice is illegal in North Carolina. As Kryptos' has pointed out, even NY state law - designed to allow a change of mind - considers fraudulently voting twice to be illegal. Can you explain how Trump was "correct after all"?
Per your quote above, Trump said "if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote" and again "if it’s not tabulated, you vote"
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: As for Barr, I guess he was correct in stating that there was a possibility that North Carolina allowed voting twice - but we now know that it's not possible, so basically Barr was correct in stating he was ignorant of the law. Why do you feel this impacts the initial claim by Trump for voters in North Carolina to vote twice?
Actually, the initial claim was: "Barr claimed to not know if voting twice is illegal..."
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: It's also odd you consider that mainstream news duped everyone, considering this quote you provided shows the CNN interviewer was correct regarding the law in North Carolina:
Quote:
Barr: I don't know what the law in the particular state says...
Blitzer: You can't vote twice.
Yes, of course voting twice is illegal in all states, but that's not what Trump actually suggested, is it?
If Trump was an establishment candidate, like Biden, I'll bet the media would have let this go, like they let so much of what Biden does go.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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christopera
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928655 - 09/10/20 04:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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In Pennsylvania, if you are registered for vote by mail but don't want to vote via mail, you have to use a provisional ballot. Trump told people in PA to vote twice, he never mentioned a provisional ballot. And mailing your ballot, while filling out a provisional or normal ballot is in fact voter fraud (a felony), because you are voting multiple times. The provisional ballot may or may not be counted depending on your eligibility.
It's ridiculous that this has to even be discussed.
Trump;
Quote:
“These mail-in ballots are a disgrace and they know it. Sign your mail-in ballot. Sign it and send it in and then you have to follow it. And if on Election Day or early voting, that is not tabulated and counted, you go vote,”
That is voter fraud in Pennsylvania. You get one ballot. Either you do it in person, or you mail it in, not both.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-doubles-down-encouraging-supporters-vote-twice-which-illegal-n1239265 https://www.votespa.com/Voting-in-PA/Pages/Voting-by-Provisional-Ballot.aspx https://www.wgal.com/article/if-you-request-a-mail-in-ballot-in-can-you-change-your-mind-and-vote-in-person-in-pennsylvania/33648018#
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928685 - 09/10/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Strange story. Carroll alleges Trump tried to rape her in a dressing room of a famous New York City department store while she was modeling lingerie for him. She never filed any charges against him, but then when she wrote about the incident in a book after Trump became President, Trump commented “she’s not my type” and now she's suing him for defamation. 
Trump? Would do something like that? Nah no way
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26928715 - 09/10/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Voting twice is illegal in North Carolina. As Kryptos' has pointed out, even NY state law - designed to allow a change of mind - considers fraudulently voting twice to be illegal. Can you explain how Trump was "correct after all"?
Per your quote above, Trump said "if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote" and again "if it’s not tabulated, you vote"
You are correct that Trumps's stated intent was for people to go to voting stations to ensure their ballot is counted, not to elicit a double vote - but here's another portion of the quote: "You just vote. And [...] they’ll see you voted and so it won’t count." That tells people in North Carolina (who's advance vote doesn't register at the polling station) to vote twice as a test to the system. It is advice that could directly lead to people voting twice in violation of North Carolina state law - to the extent that the executive director of the North Carolina State Board of Elections felt the need to clarify things.
It seems the best case scenario here is that Trump’s suggestion to go to polling stations in order to ensure your ballot is counted - a suggestion the NCSBE "strongly discourages" - also misleadingly (albeit unintentionally) suggested that people vote twice in violation of the law. Does that strike you as vindicating Trump’s statement as correct?
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: As for Barr, I guess he was correct in stating that there was a possibility that North Carolina allowed voting twice - but we now know that it's not possible, so basically Barr was correct in stating he was ignorant of the law. Why do you feel this impacts the initial claim by Trump for voters in North Carolina to vote twice?
Actually, the initial claim was: "Barr claimed to not know if voting twice is illegal..."
Well it appears you agree with that claim that Barr did not know the law: "Because Barr made it very clear " I don't know what the law in the particular state says"..." - so perhaps we can return to your claim that "it turns out Trump and Barr were correct after all, and the mainstream news duped everyone again." In the interview selection you quoted earlier, the CNN interview is giving correct information and Barr is claiming ignorance - why do you consider this an example of mainstream media duping people?
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: It's also odd you consider that mainstream news duped everyone, considering this quote you provided shows the CNN interviewer was correct regarding the law in North Carolina:
Quote:
Barr: I don't know what the law in the particular state says...
Blitzer: You can't vote twice.
Yes, of course voting twice is illegal in all states, but that's not what Trump actually suggested, is it?
If Trump was an establishment candidate, like Biden, I'll bet the media would have let this go, like they let so much of what Biden does go.
"You just vote. And [...] they’ll see you voted and so it won’t count."
That is Trump explicitly telling people to vote twice and let the system sort it out. It created the need for the NCSBE to provide official clarification that voting twice is illegal because because of the risk that it created.
Has Biden done something comparable?
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Kryptos
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26928734 - 09/10/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If Trump was an establishment candidate, like Biden, I'll bet the media would have let this go, like they let so much of what Biden does go.
Fortunately, this is another one of those idiotic hypotheticals you hate so much, because unlike Trump, Biden isn;t a retard and seems to know the basic laws regarding voting.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: DOJ to represent Trump in a personal legal matter [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26928780 - 09/10/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, so there's a lot ambiguity in whether Trump told people to vote twice or not. Snopes can't even figure it out but said "the stated goal was to ensure people's ballots get counted, not to elicit double voting." I see both sides of the argument.
So I'll stop arguing the Trump claim and go back to the original claim that "Barr claimed to not know if voting twice is illegal". I didn't get that out of the interview, did you?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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