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OfflineMycoWill
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Registered: 01/26/20
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Grain bags and contamination
    #26925086 - 09/08/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hello all,

I've been having major issues with contamination with my grain bags. I use unicorn 3t medium bags and fill them with about 5 lbs of rye. I fit 4 into my 23 qt presto or 6 into my AA941. Pressure cooked for 90 minutes at 15 psi then innoc from grain jars once cooled, under sterile conditions . I'm getting about 60% contam rates on my bags. About 2-3% on my jars and maybe 1% on my agar dishes.

The two issues I think that could be making the difference between my jars and my bags are the bags are packed so tightly in the canner that the edges of the bags that touch each other aren't getting hot enough after 90 minutes, where as the jars obvious aren't packed as tightly.

Or that the bags on the upper layer usually somewhat unfold and aren't nearly as tightly sealed as the bags on the lower that are 100% airtight as the weight of the upper layer ensures this. Allowing for unsterile air to makes its way into the opening of the bag while it cooked on the hot plate.
Any thoughts? Or tips on folding bags? Tape never seems to hold.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: MycoWill]
    #26925105 - 09/08/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Try putting her rings between your bags to let steam through.

My bet is technique, but it's impossible to say without watching you work


--------------------
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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26925144 - 09/08/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
Try putting her rings between your bags to let steam through.

My bet is technique, but it's impossible to say without watching you work




Thanks for the tip of the jar lids between bags, I forgot about that.

If it was technique it's hard to see the vast difference between contam rates of jars and bags. If I was losing half my jars I'd completely agree.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Registered: 06/13/20
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: MycoWill]
    #26925223 - 09/08/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Try impulse sealing them before PCing and try 120min. 5lb bags seem to need a little more time.


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: maxmush]
    #26925225 - 09/08/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Fold the bags like This


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: JHOVA]
    #26925233 - 09/08/20 07:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
Fold the bags like This




Thanks for this, I'll try it tomorrow and report back on how it works for me. I'll also up the cook time to 2:30.


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: MycoWill]
    #26929223 - 09/11/20 12:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That folding technique worked like a charm, I'll update in a few weeks with the success rate of the 4 bags.


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: MycoWill] * 1
    #26929417 - 09/11/20 06:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Cook bags three hours not 90 mins. No one I know cooking lotta grain uses spacers.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: filthyknees]
    #26929428 - 09/11/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:

You can fit 9 bags in a 941. I fit 9 in a 75x too. 3hrs not 90min. Make sure you vent long enuff before closing the valve.






In the pics those bags are presealed and folded .05s. I've since switched to .02, no preseal, accordian folds, top layer placed in upside down. The sterilzers are ran and about 24hrs later the bags are pulled from the units and knocked up.


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InvisibleThomsen
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Registered: 09/27/19
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: LotKid]
    #26929440 - 09/11/20 06:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
:whathesaid:

You can fit 9 bags in a 941. I fit 9 in a 75x too. 3hrs not 90min. Make sure you vent long enuff before closing the valve.






In the pics those bags are presealed and folded .05s. I've since switched to .02, no preseal, accordian folds, top layer placed in upside down. The sterilzers are ran and about 24hrs later the bags are pulled from the units and knocked up.




How do you get enough water in the pot for three hours? Do you elevate the bags? I can only fit 6 1kg bags and cook them for 2, 5 hours without venting before its almost dry


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: Thomsen]
    #26929446 - 09/11/20 06:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

75x holds a lot of water and the bags are elevated. There's a submersable heating element in there.

Do you have a jiggle weight or valve on your 941 lid?


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InvisibleThomsen
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: LotKid]
    #26929451 - 09/11/20 06:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oh I have a 921. So it's smaller obviously. But it's a jiggle weight.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: Thomsen]
    #26929639 - 09/11/20 09:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Swap it out with a sterilizer valve.


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InvisibleThomsen
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: LotKid]
    #26929680 - 09/11/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Like this one?


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: Thomsen]
    #26929684 - 09/11/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly like that one.


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InvisibleThomsen
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: LotKid]
    #26929728 - 09/11/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe if i can get one that relases at 15 psi because my grains gets pressed too much in the bottom if the pressure is too high lol


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: Thomsen] * 1
    #26929951 - 09/11/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Nah, dawg. Make the swtich. Those dont leak so your 921 will hold water for a 3 hr cycle.


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: LotKid]
    #26959799 - 09/29/20 07:00 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Update:

Since switching folding technique and cook time the last 12 bags have gone through contamination free and have colonized already. Based on these initial findings I'm leaning towards that it was one, or both of these causing my contamination issues. I'll update again in a few months to confirm my findings.


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Grain bags and contamination [Re: MycoWill]
    #26959804 - 09/29/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck yea :cool:


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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