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Messiah of Savants
Shaman



Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 431
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use [Re: Sabnock] 2
#27232623 - 03/01/21 07:33 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've only done rue with shrooms three times now, one of which was many years ago and not a great experience. I believe it was because I was taking caffeine pills and didn't realize the bad reaction the combo can have. I had a massive headache and thought my head was going to explode. It wasn't a good experience at all. Don't mix caffeine with rue as it will make the caffeine really strong.
The last two times these last two weekends have been at 2.7 and 3.6 grams rue respectively ground and capped 30-45 mins before taking half my regular dose of shrooms. It was amazing both times! I don't know that I'll ever want to trip again without rue unless some long term effects of rue are found. Sabnock has been taking it a long time and hasn't seen any adverse effects which is really good to hear.
It really makes me wonder why more people don't try it. I guess most people take small doses (< 3-4 grams) and don't really feel the need to get really out there even further. It adds a nice jolt of strength to the trip besides having to use only half the mushrooms. It truly is amazing and magic!
It was mostly posts by Sabnock about how much he loves it and how safe it really is. Food interactions don't really seem to be a thing like many have claimed in the past. That made me want to try it again after all these years. Thanks to you Sabnock! I'm now sold and a believer in the rue! 8]
Edited by Messiah of Savants (03/01/21 07:35 PM)
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Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use [Re: Messiah of Savants] 1
#27232849 - 03/01/21 10:13 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Messiah of Savants said: I've only done rue with shrooms three times now, one of which was many years ago and not a great experience. I believe it was because I was taking caffeine pills and didn't realize the bad reaction the combo can have. I had a massive headache and thought my head was going to explode. It wasn't a good experience at all. Don't mix caffeine with rue as it will make the caffeine really strong.
The last two times these last two weekends have been at 2.7 and 3.6 grams rue respectively ground and capped 30-45 mins before taking half my regular dose of shrooms. It was amazing both times! I don't know that I'll ever want to trip again without rue unless some long term effects of rue are found. Sabnock has been taking it a long time and hasn't seen any adverse effects which is really good to hear.
It really makes me wonder why more people don't try it. I guess most people take small doses (< 3-4 grams) and don't really feel the need to get really out there even further. It adds a nice jolt of strength to the trip besides having to use only half the mushrooms. It truly is amazing and magic!
It was mostly posts by Sabnock about how much he loves it and how safe it really is. Food interactions don't really seem to be a thing like many have claimed in the past. That made me want to try it again after all these years. Thanks to you Sabnock! I'm now sold and a believer in the rue! 8]
Hell yeah, that's the spirit! lol. Yeah Caffeine is metabolized by CYP1A2 and Harmalas inhibit that enzyme as well so it can end up potentiating the Caffeine. I personally like a little Caffeine in the mix sometimes but do need to go lower on Caffeine dosage and be mindful of how much you're consuming.
But i'm glad you like the Psilohuasca, it is indeed odd that more people haven't tried it or worked with it or talked about it. With as popular as Ayahuasca is, Psilohuasca definitely has untapped potential that as far as i know maybe a handful of people are exploring, like there's one guy in the Netherlands i think who uses the truffle/sclorotia with the Rue for Psilohuasca ceremonies, but not many people seem to have explored it especially in a more ceremonial context like Ayahuasca. The Rue/Harmalas definitely adds different layers and a nature/character of the experience and has more potential compared to what's offered by just mushrooms alone, imo.
One thing i really wanna get into at some point is combining mushrooms (or 4-ACO-DMT) with Mimosa or Acacia root with Rue and possibly Lemon Balm. Also wanna try mixing both Caapi and Rue at some point as well.
But yeah every now and then i see someone say that Rue is toxic or is toxic if taken long term, and i honestly don't know where people are getting that information, some of it could be people trying to hype up "traditional Ayahuasca"/Caapi and shitting on the Rue for being a "mere" analog and "not the real deal", but those who've pursued the Rue more in depth have all said it's a very powerful teacher on par with Caapi, and ime, they are very similar and offer a lot of the same things, just through a different lens/flavor. It seems that most times, people confuse/misunderstand/misinterpret Rue's Vasicine and Vasicinone content potentially causing abortion with Rue somehow being toxic, which those compounds aren't toxic, they just shouldn't be consumed by pregnant women. Another claim is that long term use of Rue can cause liver damage or something, but according to the studies i could find having to do with the liver, the dosages for any kind of liver damage was extremely high, like we're talking at least 6 grams of pure Harmaline iirc, nobody in their right mind would even take a whole gram of Harmaline, i mean geez 250 to 350mgs of Harmaline is enough to make most people suffer lol. And also iirc one of the studies mentioned that the liver changes reflecting some sort of damage were reversed when the Harmaline was no longer consumed, so the liver damage from those high dosages of Harmaline was reversible. But with all that said, in commonly used dosages, up to say 10 grams or so, Rue seems pretty safe physically, even when taken daily long term.
Aside from Rue's physical side-effects like the nausea/vomiting and feeling sick and dizziness and motion sickness and such, i've never gotten the impression that Rue was in any way toxic or harmful or bad, although i can see why people may be a bit concerned if they overdo it on the Rue and end up feeling poisoned lol. And when i've taken Limonene with Rue to knock out the sickness effects, it feels pretty clean to me for the most part, especially so when adding Lemon Balm into the mix with or without Limonene. Part of Rue's undesirable side-effects has to do with bodyload, which the Lemon Balm can clean up pretty well, and the purgative/sickness stuff which Limonene can clean up pretty well. But with that said, there's benefit to being able to purge and all sometimes, but for the most part i'd rather have a cleaner body feel than to have my guts distracting me from the experience, but i do feel like the purge has some benefits, just not something i want to experience/deal with unless i really need or feel the need to.
Edited by Sabnock (03/01/21 10:24 PM)
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Pandemoon
Ἧeẍeᾐmeḭsṫeŗ ͛


Registered: 01/28/14 
Posts: 5,844
Loc: Europe
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use [Re: Messiah of Savants] 2
#27233238 - 03/02/21 07:24 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Messiah of Savants said: I don't know that I'll ever want to trip again without rue..
It really makes me wonder why more people don't try it..
It adds a nice jolt of strength to the trip besides having to use only half the mushrooms. It truly is amazing and magic!
..

Same here.  Sabnock inspired me to extract pure harmala alkaloids, it works like a charm (see link in my signature), and my first psilohuasca experience convinced me to never eat shrooms without harmalas again. It almost feels like a waste without. Done this combo several times already. 4g of cubes + 150mg or pure harmalas and I couldn't see straight, I was on an entirely new planet, made of patterns and mandalas in colors I couldn't even imagine.. 
It adds so much more to the experience, it's so gentle, and it last as long as lsd. 
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Messiah of Savants
Shaman



Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 431
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use [Re: Pandemoon]
#27239881 - 03/06/21 04:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey Sabnock, you ever get the shits from eating capsules of syrian rue??
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Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 3,249
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use [Re: Messiah of Savants]
#27240516 - 03/06/21 01:11 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Messiah of Savants said: Hey Sabnock, you ever get the shits from eating capsules of syrian rue??
Sometimes, it usually does make me have to poop but it's not always diarrhea. But it happens to me regardless if i use the seed powder itself or extracts, it's just a property of the Harmalas. It tends to go away with the build up of the reverse tolerance.
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Messiah of Savants
Shaman



Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 431
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use [Re: Sabnock]
#27241085 - 03/06/21 09:34 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I assume you need to be doing rue almost every day to build the reverse tolerance? Once a week wouldn't be enough, right?
I've tried rue 3 times now. The first time with 2.7g and no diarrhea. The second time with 3.6g and very little diarrhea. The third time with 3.6g I had significant diarrhea. It's not until I start coming down, but it's still no fun at all. I wonder if eating a bit during the start of the come down may help or what else I could possibly do. I will probably go back down to 2.7g since that seems to be enough to potentiate and I didn't notice much difference from 3.6g. Is 1.6-1.8g (2 000 capsules) enough to fully potentiate a trip? I thought I remember mostly reading that you need at least 2-2.5g to fully potentiate.
Also I was just reading an older post where you state that the MAOI effects stop after 2 hours. I usually double dose 2-3 hours after the first mushroom tea, does this mean that the second does will not be potentiated at all? I would have to take more rue? That wouldn't be a problem, but if eating a lot of rue can lead to diarrhea, I really don't want to do that.
Thanks for all your help and input!
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TheEschatologist
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Registered: 02/22/18
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use *DELETED* [Re: Messiah of Savants]
#27245875 - 03/09/21 11:29 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by TheEschatologist
Reason for deletion: .
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LeafRaker
nomad



Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 718
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Re: Any health risks associated with long-term Syrian Rue use [Re: TheEschatologist]
#27246131 - 03/10/21 06:04 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Anyone want to share the biggest risks (at any scale of dose, frequency, or with a history of chronic use) of Rue?
I know some of you point to it's RIMA status as a sign that mixing it with tyramine isn't a worry, but I'm cautious about tyramine in general, since it triggers my migraines and generally advise others to be mindful of it as well. But since Rue has thousands of years of history across many cultures and I'd assume there's some wisdom or at least suggestion about how it could be problematic.
-------------------- Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
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