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mescalinechemist



Registered: 07/02/18
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: A.k.a]
#26922422 - 09/07/20 04:56 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're a hero, I was fretting a bit over that. I've cased it with a nice fluffy field capacity casing and put everything into fruiting conditions (all airholes now with micropore tape, temperature down, bright light during the day, fan on in room) will keep this group updated.
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maxmush
Always learning...

Registered: 06/13/20
Posts: 440
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: polyflakes]
#26922717 - 09/07/20 09:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
polyflakes said: Is it more of a question nutrients for flushes or colonization speed when thinking about spwan ratio?
My thoughts precisely.
-------------------- Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.
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madyogi
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: maxmush] 1
#26923324 - 09/07/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll be watching this one closely as well. I have six 3 lb grain spawn bags colonizing now, and I plan to fruit in my recent Martha Tent Build (any advice you have on improving that would be welcome over there).
As far as the 1:5 ratio goes, I want to make sure I have the numbers right. This would basically mean 15 lbs of substrate for each 3 lb spawn bag, correct? So, if I were buying my own substrate, say like the boomr bags from North Spore, I would want to use 3 of those 5 lb bags per 3 lb spawn bag to get the 1:5 ratio, right?
Looking at this as an ideal seems to jive with Stamets, because in Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms, he indicates 10-20% might be a sweet spot (1:5 being 20% spawn), with higher levels of spawn perhaps creating too much thermogenesis when consuming the substrate. According to his numbers, you could go to 1:10 grain to spawn, and still colonize at a decent rate.
To polyflakes point here:
Quote:
polyflakes said: Is it more of a question nutrients for flushes or colonization speed when thinking about spwan ratio?
One might also imagine more substrate means more moisture in the cake, assuming the field capacity of your substrate is right. I would think more substrate == more nutrients and more moisture for increased yield. Faster colonization == less likelihood of contamination, however too fast colonization might actually work against you by creating too much heat, and more than likely increased CO2.
I'm essentially a noob at all this, though, so if I'm totally talking out of my ass, please let me know.
My problem with going to something more like a 1:10 ratio is that I don't make my own substrate at this point, and buying substrate in boomr bags will get super expensive at that rate.
Anyway, looking forward to seeing the results, mescalinechemist!
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mescalinechemist



Registered: 07/02/18
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: madyogi]
#26923598 - 09/07/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Will keep you updated. Casing the rest of the tubs today with 50/50+, room temps have been dropped to 65 F down from 80 F during colonization. Fan on, airholes opened, bright 6500 k light
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mescalinechemist



Registered: 07/02/18
Posts: 189
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: madyogi]
#26923602 - 09/07/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Will be patching these with fresh casing as they break through
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Failboat
Fuck Up
Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 8,736
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Idk why you're casing.
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mescalinechemist



Registered: 07/02/18
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: Failboat]
#26923648 - 09/07/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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As long as it won't hurt. I wanna get into pan cyans later, might as well practice / learn the technique.
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OldManRiver
Fisherman at large


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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: maxmush]
#26923657 - 09/07/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
maxmush said:
It sounds counter-intuitive, but my understanding is you want the nute source to start depleting quickly after spawning to bulk in order to induce fruiting. This is a signal to procreate (fruit) as they think they are "dying" or loosing food source.
What I have read, and observed, is that the myc grows to the edge of the substrate, where it encounters more oxygen and less water. Having reached the edge of its growing space, it fruits, to be able to spread beyond. I don't believe your hypothesis about running out of grain, because if that were true, why would we get second and third and fourth flushes? Why would the second flush often be bigger than the first? I have seen this in two varieties of cubes, and cyans. The edge hypothesis explains why FAE is important. More oxygen triggers the fruiting. The myc gives off C02, and as long as the oxygen content is low, the myc gets the signal to keep growing. My two cents, definitely not an expert
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A.k.a
Stranger



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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: OldManRiver]
#26923682 - 09/07/20 07:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think running out of room is the main trigger.
If you leave spawn jars long enough they’ll fruit with almost no air and literally nothing but nutrients.
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LAGM2020     
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maxmush
Always learning...

Registered: 06/13/20
Posts: 440
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: A.k.a]
#26923710 - 09/07/20 07:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Running out of space is an interesting theory as well. It doesnt explain why they would fruit out open in the wild with almost unlimited space however.
Growing in a tub and the outer edges getting more oxygen and getting less water also doesnt explain why it would fruit in the middle or at all if the surface conditions are moist and optimal (ie. water)?
The answers are out there...
-------------------- Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.
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mescalinechemist



Registered: 07/02/18
Posts: 189
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: maxmush]
#26923787 - 09/07/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's a very interesting topic, as all of mycology is!
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A.k.a
Stranger



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I mean a lot are on piles of shit in the wild which prob get colonzied quick.
I’m sure it has to do with nutrient density and sub composition when they grow in the ground.
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LAGM2020     
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Goatrider
Rhythm Guitarist



Registered: 04/08/20
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Loc: Germany
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: madyogi]
#26923893 - 09/07/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
madyogi said: As far as the 1:5 ratio goes, I want to make sure I have the numbers right. This would basically mean 15 lbs of substrate for each 3 lb spawn bag, correct?
Nope, you always calculate ratios in volume, not in weight.
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madyogi
Stranger


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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: Goatrider]
#26924406 - 09/08/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Goatrider said:
Quote:
madyogi said: As far as the 1:5 ratio goes, I want to make sure I have the numbers right. This would basically mean 15 lbs of substrate for each 3 lb spawn bag, correct?
Nope, you always calculate ratios in volume, not in weight.
Okay, this is good to know. Thanks!
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madyogi
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: Failboat]
#26924418 - 09/08/20 10:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: Idk why you're casing.
Is the debate over casing cubes just a matter of wasted time? Like, it's basically unnecessary, so why bother? Or are there dangers to casing that make it risky?
I was planning to case everything (I'm colonizing Pink Oysters, Lion's Mane, Black Morels, B+, and Puerto Ricans right now). I know this thread isn't really about casing, but I'm curious. I've read about the benefits of casing, like moisture retention, microclimate at the mycelial surface, added base support for fruiting, etc.
I realize some species require casing and others don't, but if it's optional and you don't mind the extra time/expense, why not do it?
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mescalinechemist



Registered: 07/02/18
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: madyogi]
#26925280 - 09/08/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm very interested in hearing about this casing vs no casing argument. I finished casing the rest of my tubs in 50/50+
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A.k.a
Stranger



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If you don’t balance the ph right or don’t pasteurize it then it could could hurt the grow but for the most part it’s just a waste of time and peat. Once you learn how to manage your tubs conditions a casing won’t up your yield any.
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LAGM2020     
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Goatrider
Rhythm Guitarist



Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 4,436
Loc: Germany
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: A.k.a]
#26925436 - 09/08/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Also a question of belief i think. Most who tried casing didn`t catch the right time for it, or didn`t prepare it properly. My understanding is, you apply it right to the beginning of primordial stage. I know some great cultivators always do this with good results. May lead to a better pinset, to great anti-trich surface conditions and so on. But we can never say, it does better with a casing, cause we don`t have an absolute identical side by side comparison, have we? So in the end i don`t make the effort of casing, i look for best top layer conditions from the start.
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mescalinechemist



Registered: 07/02/18
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Re: 1:5 spawn to substrate working well. [Re: Goatrider]
#26925498 - 09/08/20 11:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you for that input
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A.k.a
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I know some legit cultivators ran clones side by side cased and uncased with no difference.
But that’s why I said once you know how to work your tubs it doesn’t matter. If you haven’t gotten surface conditions and all that down a casing will definitely help. I cased pretty often for a while until i was confident I knew how to maintain conditions.
I mean it takes 30 seconds so if you’re not sure you might as well.
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LAGM2020     
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