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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: budmanman] * 2
    #26941912 - 09/18/20 07:54 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

How is it 'moral' to have a piece of paper. You either know what you're doing or don't. It's SMART to have a license, like for a car, and insurance - because it suggests competency but doesn't make it true at all. And the suggestion is just legal protection because the system is broken. So how it is moral to be licensed if it has absolutely no basis on how something is used? We got a real think tank around here :rofl:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: budmanman]
    #26941913 - 09/18/20 07:56 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That's what his defense claims though, not established fact. But if he did cross state lines with the rifle, it would seem that no evidence has surfaced so far proving that to be the case.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: psi]
    #26941916 - 09/18/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I think it was established he was given the gun in Wisconsin. Not that it changes anything anyway


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: psi]
    #26941921 - 09/18/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That's what I was going to say. There's no reason to have a judge, jury or prosecutor as long as we have a defense statement.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26941936 - 09/18/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I've seen it suggested elsewhere that if he had, it would make it a federal case because that would be trafficking the weapon across state lines. (Since he was not legally allowed to possess it in at least one of the two states.)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26941939 - 09/18/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I think it was established he was given the gun in Wisconsin. Not that it changes anything anyway




It changes the crossing state lines, but you can't give a rifle to a 17 year old in Wisconsin, right?


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26941940 - 09/18/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It changes so much dude lmao wym. It's an extremely crucial point in the case.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26941943 - 09/18/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
How is it 'moral' to have a piece of paper. You either know what you're doing or don't. It's SMART to have a license, like for a car, and insurance - because it suggests competency but doesn't make it true at all. And the suggestion is just legal protection because the system is broken. So how it is moral to be licensed if it has absolutely no basis on how something is used? We got a real think tank around here :rofl:




I like that, especially the think tank part.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Near Dylan]
    #26941951 - 09/18/20 08:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Near Dylan said:
It changes so much dude lmao wym. It's an extremely crucial point in the case.



Bringing the rifle across state lines is just an additional charge. Big deal.


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OfflineNear Dylan
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26942005 - 09/18/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You dont know a whole lot about the law, do ya. It would dramatically change their approach to the other charges. Very well could be the make or break of the entire case and the entire litany of charges.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: budmanman] * 1
    #26942054 - 09/18/20 09:12 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
I think the whole case is going to hinge on did he bring the rifle from Illinois, or did he get it in Wisconsin.  This has to do with specific Wisconsin gun law, that while it was illegal for him to possess the firearm underage, the same section of Wisconsin law makes it clear that that it is still legal to defend oneself with said weapon even if he was possessing it underage.

This situation changes dramatically if he crossed state lines with the rifle.  It's important to know that as of this moment he has not been charged with transporting a weapon across state lines.




Its right there in the defense statement he didn't cross state lines with the gun.




You know they can lie in those statements, that's why we use tax dollars to pay for detectives.. if we took criminals and their attorneys at their word, no one would be in prison. :rofl2:


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9]
    #26942063 - 09/18/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Bringing the rifle across state lines goes from favorable Wisconsin Gun laws, to federal charges, which are not favorable... completely changes the case


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: psi]
    #26942159 - 09/18/20 10:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
That's what his defense claims though, not established fact. But if he did cross state lines with the rifle, it would seem that no evidence has surfaced so far proving that to be the case.



Quote:

psi said:
That's what his defense claims though, not established fact. But if he did cross state lines with the rifle, it would seem that no evidence has surfaced so far proving that to be the case.



Kyle is an Illinios resident.  All guns bought in Illinios are registered.  If it was Kyle’s rifle it would of been traced back to him.  He couldn't of purchased it in Wisconsin either.  He’s underage.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow]
    #26942160 - 09/18/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

psi said:
That's what his defense claims though, not established fact. But if he did cross state lines with the rifle, it would seem that no evidence has surfaced so far proving that to be the case.



Quote:

psi said:
That's what his defense claims though, not established fact. But if he did cross state lines with the rifle, it would seem that no evidence has surfaced so far proving that to be the case.



Kyle is an Illinios resident.  All guns bought in Illinios are registered.  If it was Kyle’s rifle it would of been traced back to him.  He couldn't of purchased it in Wisconsin either.  He’s underage.




It is quite easy to acquire guns illegally, especially in the circles this Kyle was running in.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #26942179 - 09/18/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:

It is quite easy to acquire guns illegally, especially in the circles this Kyle was running in.


Sure, his dad could go to Wisconsin and bring the gun back as a gift for his kid, but that would be pure conjecture.  We’ve already got multiple hypotheticals that have lost the plot.

Curiously, what circles of people are you talking about?  The law abiding hard working American one?  That seems to be how he rolled.(When he’s not beating up girls, of course.)


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow]
    #26942201 - 09/18/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The kind of circles the give underage children firearms. Those circles.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9]
    #26942214 - 09/18/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I had a firearm when I was 9.  Seventeen is an appropriate age.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] * 4
    #26942223 - 09/18/20 10:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I was taught to fire a bolt action .22 at around 5, graduated to my gramps M1 Garand for target practice at 15.  What I was not allowed to do, was carry the gun with me without an adult, carry the gun loaded, and certainly not bring the gun into a location of civil unrest, with undeveloped prefrontal cortex limiting my ability to make rational decisions, especially under duress.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: Ice9]
    #26942233 - 09/18/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I was using a firearm unsupervised at 9 years of age.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse's official initial defense statement. [Re: lowbrow] * 2
    #26942294 - 09/18/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
I was taught to fire a bolt action .22 at around 5, graduated to my gramps M1 Garand for target practice at 15.  What I was not allowed to do, was carry the gun with me without an adult, carry the gun loaded, and certainly not bring the gun into a location of civil unrest, with undeveloped prefrontal cortex limiting my ability to make rational decisions, especially under duress.




Yeah it was a terrible idea on Rittenhouse's part and I would like to know more about adults who may have influenced him to think it was a good idea, or enabled him by providing the rifle. As well as people, adults or otherwise, who aided Rosenbaum in chasing down Rittenhouse in the first place. There was a reporter (whatever that means any more) who was following close behind and I don't think falls under this. Knowing who it was that fired the other gun just as Rosenbaum caught up with Rittenhouse also seems pretty crucial.

I don't know how the trial will turn out, but I know that I wouldn't want to live in a country where it was normal for armed, opposing political factions to roam the streets and be around for whatever trouble transpires between them, doubly so if armed minors are included in that. I think he likely did act within his best understanding of self defense law though. But however the trial turns out, he will now have to live with the memories of having killed a couple of people. Whether he can keep that compartmentalized as having been the right thing to do I don't know.


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