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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Registered: 06/02/20
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26933388 - 09/13/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
There is nothin wrong with capitalists making profit off of workers




I think that is the problem, though. Workers aren't the ones seeing the benefits of their own labor. If I, as a worker, increase my productivity, I don't see increased profits, my employer does. That's not just.

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
I think it's safe to say that the only capitalists who aren't exploiting workers are the ones who aren't any good at it.



Then I think we actually are in agreement here. My whole point is that we can't just point our fingers at rich people and say that they're the problem. The problem isn't just that people are wealthy. The problem is that our system rewards people who exploit poorer people with wealth.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: meltdowner]
    #26933398 - 09/13/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Meh, there is no perfect system.




This is not an argument in favor of capitalism, and it does absolutely nothing to respond to the specific criticisms posed against capitalism.

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Trust in God and live yoir life the way you want.



As an atheist, I find this suggestion completely unhelpful.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26933528 - 09/13/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I think that is the problem, though. Workers aren't the ones seeing the benefits of their own labor. If I, as a worker, increase my productivity, I don't see increased profits, my employer does. That's not just.





Depends who you work for. I share what I make with my employee/s. In this instance capitalism works just fine.

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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26934356 - 09/13/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Depends who you work for. I share what I make with my employee/s. In this instance capitalism works just fine.



I don't think a system that depends on the goodness of people like you to prevent millions of poor people from being exploited is worthy of praise.


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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 3
    #26934387 - 09/13/20 11:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The fact that Walmart gets a tax break every time the cashier manages to guilt me into donating to blind paraplegic orphans is a pretty good example of how our current system is broken. Then on top of that there’s a pretty good chance that the ceo of said charity makes more than myself and the next 9 households down the road combined

I just want some goddamn poptarts  :cryforme:


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #26935245 - 09/14/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Depends who you work for. I share what I make with my employee/s. In this instance capitalism works just fine.



I don't think a system that depends on the goodness of people like you to prevent millions of poor people from being exploited is worthy of praise.




My point is that capitalism works fine, it's greed that's the problem. Fix the greed problem you won't have a problem with capitalism.
Won't matter what system it's replaced with if people are still greedy shits.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #26935269 - 09/14/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know why a person like Jeff Bezos cant be offered a tax rate of say 40% with the option of paying 35% as long as he puts 4% back in his workers pocket... something like that.
Do the same with any corporation.
The greedy still get their share plus 1% and the workers get more which gives the government back their share.
How's that sound?

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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26935281 - 09/14/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
My point is that capitalism works fine, it's greed that's the problem. Fix the greed problem you won't have a problem with capitalism.
Won't matter what system it's replaced with if people are still greedy shits.




I guess my point of view is that fixing "the greed problem" is a lot less tractable than enacting policies that put limitations on greedy people. I don't think it's impossible for us to live in a world without greed, but I think it's a lot more practical to focus on building a better system: one that doesn't reward greed as much as capitalism does.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26935383 - 09/14/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Depends who you work for. I share what I make with my employee/s. In this instance capitalism works just fine.



I don't think a system that depends on the goodness of people like you to prevent millions of poor people from being exploited is worthy of praise.




My point is that capitalism works fine, it's greed that's the problem. Fix the greed problem you won't have a problem with capitalism.
Won't matter what system it's replaced with if people are still greedy shits.




I would say that 'capitalism' that's very heavily regulated can work for both investors and workers. Today, the regulations are put into place by the very wealthy to benefit the very wealthy. How do we reverse the regulations into the opposite direction to save 'capitalism' from complete destruction?  People have to demand change in one fashion or another, otherwise the wealth inequality will get even worse in the years ahead.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26935420 - 09/14/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I don't know why a person like Jeff Bezos cant be offered a tax rate of say 40% with the option of paying 35% as long as he puts 4% back in his workers pocket... something like that.
Do the same with any corporation.
The greedy still get their share plus 1% and the workers get more which gives the government back their share.
How's that sound?



I like it!

What are the odds of it being implemented though?  My guess would be 0.0001%.  :frown:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26935463 - 09/14/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

As is the case with most corporate incentives to do good, the profit made by ignoring the law far outweighs the penalty they end up paying (if they’re even caught).


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26935508 - 09/14/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Depends who you work for. I share what I make with my employee/s. In this instance capitalism works just fine.



I don't think a system that depends on the goodness of people like you to prevent millions of poor people from being exploited is worthy of praise.




My point is that capitalism works fine, it's greed that's the problem. Fix the greed problem you won't have a problem with capitalism.
Won't matter what system it's replaced with if people are still greedy shits.




I would say that 'capitalism' that's very heavily regulated can work for both investors and workers. Today, the regulations are put into place by the very wealthy to benefit the very wealthy. How do we reverse the regulations into the opposite direction to save 'capitalism' from complete destruction?  People have to demand change in one fashion or another, otherwise the wealth inequality will get even worse in the years ahead.




Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
As is the case with most corporate incentives to do good, the profit made by ignoring the law far outweighs the penalty they end up paying (if they’re even caught).




90% top tax rate to discourage taking a high end salary (and encourage reinvestment--i.e., paying people, as employees are the most valuable asset of any company), and fines that are not set but scale to income, like speeding tickets in some European countries. Instead of "oh, you broke a law? 10M, please, from that billion you just made illegally" I'd love to see "oh, you broke a law? Pay us double what you made".

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26935559 - 09/14/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Now we just gotta get the rich people who own congress to buy into it.  :grin:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26935972 - 09/14/20 09:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:
Meh, there is no perfect system.




This is not an argument in favor of capitalism, and it does absolutely nothing to respond to the specific criticisms posed against capitalism.

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Trust in God and live yoir life the way you want.



As an atheist, I find this suggestion completely unhelpful.



I was an atheist to for half my life.  You start to not care idlf God is real or not.  Cant prove it either way so it's a silly argument to have.  So you choose to believ in something beautiful because you can.


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.

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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: meltdowner] * 2
    #26936061 - 09/14/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
I was an atheist to for half my life.  You start to not care idlf God is real or not.  Cant prove it either way so it's a silly argument to have.  So you choose to believ in something beautiful because you can.



The universe is beautiful and I believe in that. It's often terrible, but beautiful.

Look, man, I'm not trying to convince you to change your beliefs about God. All I'm saying is that appealing to God isn't a very good argument in favor of capitalism because it isn't going to convince an atheist.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26938307 - 09/16/20 01:55 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I don't know why a person like Jeff Bezos cant be offered a tax rate of say 40% with the option of paying 35% as long as he puts 4% back in his workers pocket... something like that.
Do the same with any corporation.
The greedy still get their share plus 1% and the workers get more which gives the government back their share.
How's that sound?



I like it!

What are the odds of it being implemented though?  My guess would be 0.0001%.  :frown:




For sure it hasn't got a hope of happening.
But it wouldn't take much if government got serious. Perhaps if franked dividends also passed on a % to the workers of a corporation as well as tax to the government before investors got their return... job done!

I like the story of Julius Caesar paying his army out of his own pocket. It can be done.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: qman] * 1
    #26938310 - 09/16/20 01:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
People have to demand change in one fashion or another, otherwise the wealth inequality will get even worse in the years ahead.




:awesomenod: :super:

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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26938316 - 09/16/20 02:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I like the story of Julius Caesar paying his army out of his own pocket. It can be done.



I don't like that story at all. Julius Caesar was an integral actor in the creation of the Roman Empire, which was one of the most oppressive, violent governments in human history. Millions of people died by the hand of that empire, and I don't think that's worthy of praise.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26938539 - 09/16/20 08:03 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
As is the case with most corporate incentives to do good, the profit made by ignoring the law far outweighs the penalty they end up paying (if they’re even caught).




Usually outweighed by thousands of times.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26938681 - 09/16/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I like the story of Julius Caesar paying his army out of his own pocket. It can be done.




That's how you create a Junta.

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