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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Capitalism, where do you stand?
    #26921078 - 09/06/20 02:20 PM (12 days, 12 hours ago)

Title says it all.

What are your thoughts on capitalism?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26921107 - 09/06/20 02:38 PM (12 days, 12 hours ago)

The most positive aspect is the innovation and production of available goods and services. Would a government be able to sell a $1 burger or put the latest tech in our hands? I dont think so. Could our politicans make the same decisions as the Fed? Majority of our representatives dont have the belly for it.

It would be interesting to think that some Ordoliberal theories could be implemented to provide more social welfare to people. It seems more palatable than laissez-faire capitalism and potentially be a fair compromise between the two.


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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26921120 - 09/06/20 02:43 PM (12 days, 12 hours ago)

It is commonly said that, though it is a very imperfect socioeconomic system, it is the best one that has evolved historically. I think that's a very broad generalization and arguments could be made from both history and anthropology that bring it seriously into question.

It's a pretty unfair system for a lot of people, and those few who make billions are under no social or legal compulsion to give anything back at all -- to society, to taxation, to their own employees, etc. As Kurt Vonnegut said, wealthy people today are mandated to do less for the poor since those of Napoleonic times. It's fucked up.

I don't really have the inclination to get into the weeds in this post, but I will say this: Entrepreneurship seems to be the most valued trait in a person in contemporary America. That we would value the buying and selling of goods above all else illustrates a sad shallowness that I, for one, despise. But ultramaterialistic social systems tend to skew things like that.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 3
    #26921168 - 09/06/20 03:14 PM (12 days, 11 hours ago)

Capitalism is an ideal, not an economic system. It's the label given to a human system to justify immoral behavior. When push comes to shove, the "capitalists" want nothing to do with the true components of free markets and they never have.

Capitalism is the excuse to piss on the working class and to justify the incredible economic imbalances that usually result from human greed. I really wish that we practiced "capitalism" because the outcome would be so much better for the vast majority of the population.

It's always been a heavily manipulated form of crony capitalism at work and it only gets worse as the imbalances get even more exaggerated. It's "capitalism" for the peasants and it's "pro-business policies" for The Elite. In other words, no socialism for the working class, but there's plenty for the "capitalists".


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: qman] * 2
    #26921246 - 09/06/20 03:54 PM (12 days, 11 hours ago)

Capitalism is a modern re-branding of feudalism. Except instead of ruling by "divine right" passed down through generations, capitalists rule by "good business" passed down through generations.



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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26921250 - 09/06/20 03:56 PM (12 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Would a government be able to sell a $1 burger




I haven't seen a 1$ burger in...over half a decade. The dollar menu is a $1.29 menu now, and occasionally a $3 menu.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Kryptos]
    #26921273 - 09/06/20 04:11 PM (12 days, 10 hours ago)

I rarely eat fast food, but they are still a dollar in MI, OH.



--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (09/06/20 04:49 PM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: SirTripAlot] * 3
    #26921876 - 09/06/20 09:51 PM (12 days, 5 hours ago)

Capitalism is ran by complete retards who run the world into the ground with it.

Loud and Clear: If every human in the world has a decent standard of living, not only is this good for innovation, but all producers would have a bigger market too.

If less and less people in the world can take part in the free exchange of goods and services, you are doing something VERY wrong as a capitalist system.

Capitalism as it is practiced now, in the absence of guillotines, will result in there being one company, THE COMPANY, that sells all products in the market and the only one who can afford any of them is its CEO.

We destroy the environment faster and faster so fewer and fewer can have bigger and bigger piles of money.

Its a death machine.


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Asante]
    #26922418 - 09/07/20 06:53 AM (11 days, 20 hours ago)

Capitalism is just the name given to the system where people produce goods or perform services that others are willing to pay or trade for.  A primitive barter system where you grow chickens and collect the eggs which you then trade for something you want but can’t produce, let’s say goat cheese, is capitalism.  Even communist countries like China practice capitalism while they rail against it.

The alternative to trading or buying goods and services is to use force to take them away from the people who produced them.  It’s “robbery” if you take their goods, and “slavery” if you take their services.

Pretty sure most of us are against theft and slavery.

What people are really complaining about when they say they hate capitalism is NOT capitalism, it’s the Federal Reserve System, which prints money and gives it to the big banks of the world in a corporate cronyism fashion that is almost fascistic.  The Federal Reserve steals a percentage of the value of the dollars in your pocket and gives it to the politically connected so they can enrich themselves, while leaving you paying more for everything you value and want to have, but cannot produce on your own.

That’s the system people hate.  No one gets upset at a poor farmer who manages to trade 10 eggs for some goat cheese instead of a full dozen eggs, despite that being capitalism.


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26922827 - 09/07/20 01:08 PM (11 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
Capitalism is just the name given to the system where people produce goods or perform services that others are willing to pay or trade for.



That's also called communism.  Or pretty much any system.

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
A primitive barter system where you grow chickens and collect the eggs which you then trade for something you want but can’t produce, let’s say goat cheese, is capitalism.  Even communist countries like China practice capitalism while they rail against it.



So what's a modern system called, where factory farms hire workers for slave wages to do all that for them?

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
The alternative to trading or buying goods and services is to use force to take them away from the people who produced them.  It’s “robbery” if you take their goods, and “slavery” if you take their services.

Pretty sure most of us are against theft and slavery.



What system does that?

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
What people are really complaining about when they say they hate capitalism is NOT capitalism, it’s the Federal Reserve System, which prints money and gives it to the big banks of the world in a corporate cronyism fashion that is almost fascistic.  The Federal Reserve steals a percentage of the value of the dollars in your pocket and gives it to the politically connected so they can enrich themselves, while leaving you paying more for everything you value and want to have, but cannot produce on your own.

That’s the system people hate.



All modern economies use central banks.  They loan money to banks to loan to business and consumers, money which has to get paid back.  Not scary at all if you understand it.  We've had countless discussions about the Federal Reserve here, disproving a lot of the misconceptions.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26922833 - 09/07/20 01:12 PM (11 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Title says it all.

What are your thoughts on capitalism?




I love capitalism and I reap its benefits everyday.

Everything I need is at it's lowest price and everybody involved in it's production got paid.


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Edited by Patlal (09/07/20 01:15 PM)


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Patlal]
    #26922839 - 09/07/20 01:15 PM (11 days, 13 hours ago)

If a different system offered you more benefits would you love it more than capitalism?


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26922845 - 09/07/20 01:19 PM (11 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
If a different system offered you more benefits would you love it more than capitalism?




Of course.

Better is better.


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Patlal]
    #26922877 - 09/07/20 01:45 PM (11 days, 13 hours ago)

How about we all divide our money evenly lol? That's probably the ideal world for the radical left :lol:. The only problem with Capitalism is that there's people with super high IQs that know how to bend it to their will. I think we should have like a 500 million dollar limit. People like Jeff bezos shouldn't exist and I honestly think someone needs to terminate the guy because he's never going to stop. They're saying he's going to be a trillionaire within the next 7 or 8 year's. He literally has a seat in our pentagon and is controlling things and not paying taxes. Bill gates is on cnn taking about forced vaccination and trying to tell us what to do although he sells software! These mega billionaires are controlling everything behind the scenes. You can literally control just about anything with enough money.

I think we should destroy these mega billionaires and start a 500 million limit. If every country on the planet decided to do that the world would be a better place. It'll never happen though...


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Shenmue]
    #26922891 - 09/07/20 01:53 PM (11 days, 13 hours ago)

What do you think a "super-high IQ" is?  Just toss out a number.
Additionally, do you believe that Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates have "super high IQs"?
If so, on what are you basing that assessment?

Thanks


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26922997 - 09/07/20 02:41 PM (11 days, 12 hours ago)

Bezos, I'm not sure, but Bill Gates has an IQ around 162, based on his SATs.

IQ is a standardized test, and IQ scores have a pretty clear correlation with SATs, GREs, ACTs, and other standardized tests. The correlation gets fuzzy near the edges, of course, and Bill Gates had, IIRC, 1590 on his SAT. This puts his IQ at 162+.

https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx

EDIT: This is also kind of a dumb question, because IQ is only one small piece of the puzzle. There are plenty of very high IQ individuals that are working several minimum wage jobs just trying to keep afloat. Bezos was born into a wealthy family. Bill Gates was born into a wealthy family, to a smaller scale (Gates had high paid lawyers as parents, Bezos' family owned a 40,000 acre ranch).

I also think it's interesting that Gates is being lumped in with Bezos, because Gates is actively running multiple philanthropic schemes, while Bezos is, as far as I can tell, building a Smaug pile. And, of course, Gates is being demonized by people like shenmue for trying to help society with his money.


Edited by Kryptos (09/07/20 03:06 PM)


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Shenmue] * 4
    #26923013 - 09/07/20 02:50 PM (11 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
How about we all divide our money evenly lol? That's probably the ideal world for the radical left :lol:.



No.  It's not.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I think we should destroy these mega billionaires and start a 500 million limit. If every country on the planet decided to do that the world would be a better place.



I'm not even that extreme.  I'd just like to see their taxes go up above what the rest of us pay.



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26923034 - 09/07/20 03:04 PM (11 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
How about we all divide our money evenly lol? That's probably the ideal world for the radical left :lol:.



No.  It's not.

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I think we should destroy these mega billionaires and start a 500 million limit. If every country on the planet decided to do that the world would be a better place.



I'm not even that extreme.  I'd just like to see their taxes go up above what the rest of us pay.






Something needs to be done. How can a man that pays no taxes be sitting in our pentagon? How can marijuana be illegal when 70% of the country wants it legalized? It's the super rich people controlling everything. I honestly think the president and politicians have very little power. I've never seen a president do what they promised. These politicians are only there for show and I don't believe their controlling anything important. Instead of rioting over blm why aren't we protesting for the real problems? If a couple million of us did riots over marijuana and mushrooms they would probably be legal within  week's. Why the fuck aren't we doing that? We're literally allowing them to control us. If I had a voice and an audience like joe rogan I would start riots over the war on drugs with millions of people. These celebrities like to talk big game but they do nothing..


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: Shenmue]
    #26923157 - 09/07/20 04:04 PM (11 days, 10 hours ago)

I can agree with that.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Perhaps I'm a bit vain, but I pay careful attention to my 'vote ups'.  Please feel free to 'vote up' a post that you like - I won't tell anyone.  :smirk:


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Capitalism, where do you stand? [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #26923165 - 09/07/20 04:12 PM (11 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Title says it all.

What are your thoughts on capitalism?




It’s a great idea in theory but it doesn’t work in real life due to human nature. Every society that’s tried it has failed.


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