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InvisibleShenmue
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Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Sabnock]
    #26909975 - 08/31/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Once again all talk. Show me some evidence that dmt hits more receptors than Psilocin! Anyone that's explored panaeolus cyanescens will tell you that it's just as powerful as ayahuasca. Hell I think it might be more powerful because the Harmalas slow the visuals down. I've used high doses of Psilocin and ayahuasca. I took such a high dose of ayahuasca that It gave me depersonalization disorder for 2 years. I honestly think it's you that doesn't know how powerful Psilocin is. They're nearly identical
molecules!



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InvisibleShenmue
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Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Shenmue]
    #26909994 - 08/31/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Psilocin is just orally active dmt when you look at the science and see how it works...



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OnlineSabnock
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Shenmue]
    #26910031 - 08/31/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You've already got your mind made up and are clearly not interested in learning anything. If you really wanna know what's up, you'll do the research and experimentation. I'm not that one who has something to prove, that remains with you. If you simply don't care, then i guess you'll never understand, Shenmue.


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OnlineSabnock
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Northerner]
    #26910036 - 08/31/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
I don't know how you dosed harmalas daily for so long man. After about a month I start to hit a threshold. My sensitivity increases a lot and everything gets pretty intense. I've read other people who have experienced similar.
I guess if my life wasn't so full and I could roll with it a lot more it'd be easier. Maybe it's a pretty normal reaction.




Idk, i have a lot of free time, or at least i did, not so much now but i'm still able to take Rue pretty regularly when i feel like it. After awhile it does make everything intense, probably one reason i had to quit smoking Cannabis. It takes a lot of dedication and determination to dose this kinda stuff regularly for the long term, not many people do it or are able to do it, apparently.


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OnlineSabnock
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Sabnock]
    #26910058 - 08/31/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

My advice Shenmue, work with Psilohuasca for awhile. What do you have to lose? If you're used to mushrooms, try mushrooms with Rue for awhile, see how the experiences differ.

And can you seriously not tell/feel/sense/observe the differences between oral DMT and Psilocin? I sure can. Don't you know that each Psychedelic is unique and no two Psychedelics are exactly the same no matter how close they are in terms of chemical structure similarity? Yes Psilocin is close to DMT as far as the structure goes, but as we should all know, one little tweak of a compound can produce different results in terms of effects, receptor binding, potency, etc. But again, if you're really wanting to know, you'll take it upon yourself to dive in and learn. If you don't care, then there's nothing we can do about that.

Take my word for it or don't, but you don't know/realize as much as you think you do. You can dismiss my words and blow me off if you like, but i know, and that's enough for me. If you don't wanna know, that's too bad, but maybe for the best for people like you.


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Registered: 02/22/18
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Sabnock]
    #26911152 - 09/01/20 03:49 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

If I may ask, and I know these things are highly subjective and difficult to articulate, but how does the qualitative experience differ for you between dmt+harmalas and psilocybin or even psilo+harmalas? Pharmahuasca is the next thing on my to-do list after the psilohuasca attempt. I've heard it can be quite intense and a "heavier" experience than most other psychs (I've only done traditional aya once)


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: TheEschatologist] * 2
    #26911551 - 09/01/20 09:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Psilocin is just orally active dmt when you look at the science and see how it works...




It can be seen as such but obviously it is not. Anybody who tried both once clearly sees the differences. If it was the same, then why bother with oral dmt if you can just eat shrooms? It simply is not the same.


Quote:

TheEschatologist said:
If I may ask, and I know these things are highly subjective and difficult to articulate, but how does the qualitative experience differ for you between dmt+harmalas and psilocybin or even psilo+harmalas? Pharmahuasca is the next thing on my to-do list after the psilohuasca attempt. I've heard it can be quite intense and a "heavier" experience than most other psychs (I've only done traditional aya once)




Well, intensity and strength depends always on the dose. A mild dose of pharmahuasca is not stronger than a mild mushroom trip. In fact I found mushrooms to be wilder in nature than oral dmt.
Oral dmt (ayahuasca and pharmahuasca are quite the same I'd say) is much more clearheaded than mushrooms, even in higher doses.

I have taken up to 14g of potent cubes where I was completly floored with out of body moments feeling nothing than oneness with everything.
And some pharmahuasca doses that completly ripped my mind appart, totally unable to move in any way,
only able to lay down with closed eyes feeling each molecule of my body exploding into colorfull fractals merging with my sourroundings every second for hours.
Orl dmt feels natural yet alien at the same time. It doesn't make much sense, I know, but it really is hard to describe. Due to the clear headiness you are able to think and realize more than with shrooms, in my opinion.

-


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Offlinemangaka911
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Shenmue]
    #26911816 - 09/01/20 12:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You sound like a bot, and obv someone that clearly makes a fool of themselves, you don't gotta be a scientists to do anything lmao, how did you graduate school💀


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OfflineFranxLove


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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: mangaka911]
    #26912635 - 09/01/20 07:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Once I did have a bit of a bad trip on psilohuasca because I got very confused. I sat in my couching holding my head in my hands. didnt feel very good. Probably dosed 3 or 4g of cubensis with 300mg of syrian rue harmalas HCL.

THAT BEING SAID, Ive never had a bad trip on shrooms (4-5g cubensis, and Ayahuasca tea, Banisteripsis Caapi.) After taking the shrooms I'd sit or lay down under the full moon and drink a whole bottle of Caapi...good feels. love. god bless.


--------------------
The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything
..............................
Sole dominion over the Earth
going to heaven
lordship over all worlds
The fruit of stream-entry
excels them


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OnlineSabnock
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: FranxLove]
    #26912750 - 09/01/20 08:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FranxLove said:
Once I did have a bit of a bad trip on psilohuasca because I got very confused. I sat in my couching holding my head in my hands. didnt feel very good. Probably dosed 3 or 4g of cubensis with 300mg of syrian rue harmalas HCL.

THAT BEING SAID, Ive never had a bad trip on shrooms (4-5g cubensis, and Ayahuasca tea, Banisteripsis Caapi.) After taking the shrooms I'd sit or lay down under the full moon and drink a whole bottle of Caapi...good feels. love. god bless.




300mgs of Harmala extract is a bit too much, 180 to 200mgs is plenty, sometimes even less is fine, like 150mgs or so. Also, full spectrum Rue extract, or Syrian Rue seed itself, is more preferable than Harmala hcl extract.


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OnlineSabnock
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: TheEschatologist] * 4
    #26912870 - 09/01/20 09:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheEschatologist said:
If I may ask, and I know these things are highly subjective and difficult to articulate, but how does the qualitative experience differ for you between dmt+harmalas and psilocybin or even psilo+harmalas? Pharmahuasca is the next thing on my to-do list after the psilohuasca attempt. I've heard it can be quite intense and a "heavier" experience than most other psychs (I've only done traditional aya once)




For me, Psilohuasca personally feels almost identical to Ayahuasca with oral DMT, but a little different and more relaxed/gentler/looser and not as serious as Aya with oral DMT.

Aya with oral DMT feels a lot more clearheaded than Psilohuasca, with DMT feeling more like a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator compared to Psilocin, and is Adrenergic which creates an Adrenergic intensity which Psilocin seems to lack, though Psilocin and DMT seem to share very similar Serotonergic intensity. You can tell oral DMT has more going on in terms of the receptors it activates or binds to compared to Psilocin.

Though i do seem to get more closed and open eyed visuals from Psilocin, whereas with oral DMT i don't get much in the way of closed eyed visuals no matter the dosage, but i do get some open eyed visuals like an increase in tracers and HD-vision, sometimes what looks like mental imagery being projected onto an external surface, including some sacred geometry, but when oral DMT is activated using Moclobemide instead of Harmalas, i find there is a lot more open eyed visual stuff from the DMT, like the Harmalas seem to redirect DMT's visual activity into making things more mental and physical than visual whereas Moclobemide doesn't do that and merely inhibits MAO-A.

Psilohuasca is also pretty clearheaded, more clearheaded than mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT on their own, but not as clearheaded or clean/sober-feeling as oral DMT is.

Psilohuasca seems to take me, so far, to nearly identical states as Aya with oral DMT does, including the kinds of effects and experiences i get. Mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT on their own, lacks the direction, teachings/guidance, states and experiences, and overall character/personality that Psilohuasca does, they are two completely different kinds of experiences because the Harmalas change the kind of medicine it is compared to mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT on their own.

One time i combined a low dosage of mushrooms with my usual dosage of Acacia Confusa, Rue seed and Lemon Balm, and they synergized very nicely, it's something i want to try out more in the time to come and i think it's a combination worth trying out. It gave me open eyed fractal visuals which is rare for me to get and the overall feeling was very nice.

Psilohuasca also extends the duration of Psilocin out to 9 to 12 hours for me, depending on the dosage of the Rue/Harmalas, whereas without the Harmalas the Psilocin duration is more like 6 hours.

I've also taken mushrooms, as well as 4-ACO-DMT, with Moclobemide instead of the Harmalas/Rue, felt more like DMT with Moclobemide and lacked the Huasca effects just like DMT with Moclobemide, that i'd otherwise get when using Rue/Harmalas.

Pharmahuasca using Harmala extracts, or even Rue/Caapi extracts, is a good bit different than using the Harmala-containing plants. The plants are what i prefer, but one can get away most definitely with using a pure Psychedelic compound like DMT or 4-ACO-DMT, but the Psychedelic side of things doesn't seem to matter nearly as much as the Harmala side of things. The isolated Psychedelic compound still works just as well as the natural material ime, but the Harmala side of things is where the difference is. When using the plants, it feels more natural and full spectrum, when using the full spectrum Rue extract it feels a bit cleaner/lighter and less full than the Rue seed but is closest to feeling like the Rue seed, the Harmala hcl extract basically feels like isolated Harmalas and is a lot cleaner/lighter than the full spectrum extract or the Rue seed itself, but definitely lacks a lot of the benefits that you get from the Rue, including the plant presence/spirit and a lot of it's teachings, and it's the Harmala hcl extract (or isolated Harmine, or isolated Harmaline) which people use most for Pharmahuasca, hence the experiences can be different. No doubt each option has it's benefits and resulting experiences, and they can share similar benefits, but overall it's definitely better to go with the actual Harmala containing plant, even if going with an isolated Psychedelic compound. One can even mix in extra Harmine, or even THH, with the Rue seed, if one wishes, or mix Rue and Caapi together.

Another option is admixture plants, there are countless/various herbs or even supplements out there that can be mixed with the Huasca's, or even the basic Psychedelic itself like mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT, maybe even LSD, or Mescaline/Cacti, in order to color things a certain way or add certain benefits to the mix or drive the experience into a certain direction or to give you a certain kind of experience, etc. It's definitely worth experimenting with imo. My favorite admixture plant so far is Lemon Balm, it smooths out the come up, reduces anxiety and panic, contributes some relaxation, doesn't seem to dull down the headspace, and colors the experience very nicely, i usually use 3 to 4.5 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf tea with my Psychedelic of choice. It goes very well with Acacia Confusa, as well as mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT or Psilohuasca, and i've had most of my truly spiritual/mystical/teaching experiences with Lemon Balm in the mix, it also helps to clean up how the Rue feels especially in terms of headspace and bodyload.

Also keep in mind, the more regularly the Harmalas are consumed, a reverse tolerance will build up, which not only makes the Harmala dosage stronger each time, but after awhile of regular consumption, the side-effects will go away, so no more potential nausea or vomiting, the bodyload cleans up, and the motor function impairment is reduced, which helps make heavier Harmala dosages more manageable/functional and easier to tolerate and cleaner/lighter, allowing you to dive more fully into heavy Harmala territory without the discomfort. Probiotics also seem to help with the gut discomfort that Harmalas/Rue/Caapi can cause, so that's also worth looking into and trying out with some good probiotics.

I've also been taking Mucuna extract (which contains standardized L-Dopa), and a lot of people seem to be wary of Mucuna/L-Dopa but for me i've taken it like twice a day everyday for 3 years straight, stopped taking it for awhile, and recently started back taking it again, and i've had it in the mix with Psychedelics as well and it seems to help add some clarity and clearness to the headspace, so that may also be something worth checking out. I've had no side-effects at all, and no withdrawal effects at all, from taking Mucuna extract, i get about 600mgs of L-Dopa content a day from taking the extract. If i take it when i take the Rue, i take the Mucuna extract 2 hours before taking the Rue, and all is well, i've even taken it 2 hours after the Rue, and all has been well, but when i've taken it at the same time as the Rue, i've had a bit of an increase in heart rate and a potentiation of the L-Dopa content, so i find taking it 2 hours before the Rue to be best.

As far as mushrooms on their own, or 4-ACO-DMT on it's own goes, as i said, they are completely different experiences compared to Psilohuasca, they can no doubt be interesting on their own and do have things to offer on their own, but i much prefer the Psilohuasca, it just has a lot more to offer and feels way better.


--------------------


Edited by Sabnock (09/01/20 09:47 PM)


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OnlineSabnock
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Sabnock]
    #26912890 - 09/01/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Another interesting tidbit worth mentioning, is that 4-ACO-DMT for some reason feels a lot more Shroomy when used with Rue than mushrooms with Rue does, i mean both are Shroomy no doubt, and mushrooms themselves are Shroomy, obviously, but 4-ACO-DMT with Rue always seems to give me closed eyed visuals of mushrooms, and it feels more Shroomy than mushrooms, and you can also feel the Psilocin way more when mixing 4-ACO-DMT with Rue than using 4-ACO-DMT on it's own. At times 4-ACO-DMT with Rue also feels more alien, though i've noticed 4-ACO-DMT with Rue, depending on the dosages of 4-ACO-DMT and Rue, as well as the timing between the 4-ACO-DMT and the Rue, can feel Shroomy, or it can feel like Ayahuasca, or it can feel like smoked DMT, or a cross between all three. It truly is a very interesting and awesome compound, which definitely seems to give mushrooms a run for their money lol, but mushrooms are very good too, no doubt.


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: FranxLove] * 1
    #26915643 - 09/03/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the all the feedback guys, it's really helped me clarify the approach to my future psilo/pharmahuasca attempts.

I'm planning on doing a full spectrum extract on the rue and a basic naptha pull on the mimosa I have, then dosing the finished powders together. I'm no expert on oral dmt, but I've read this is the best way to minimize nausea and body discomfort when it comes to aya analogues while keeping most of the magic.

I think trying psilohuasca will be a sort of training for the pharma experience. I'm encouraged by the comments saying that dmt+harmala is clearer than mushrooms alone. I like mushrooms but sometimes (often actually) it feels like they turn on me, so I wouldn't mind a more predictable medicinal psych (which I know is relative when talking about these things).

Quote:

FranxLove said:
Once I did have a bit of a bad trip on psilohuasca because I got very confused. I sat in my couching holding my head in my hands. didnt feel very good. Probably dosed 3 or 4g of cubensis with 300mg of syrian rue harmalas HCL.

THAT BEING SAID, Ive never had a bad trip on shrooms (4-5g cubensis, and Ayahuasca tea, Banisteripsis Caapi.) After taking the shrooms I'd sit or lay down under the full moon and drink a whole bottle of Caapi...good feels. love. god bless.




From what I've read, those are pretty big doses on both the mushroom and harmala sides. As far as I understand overshooting the dosages on psilohuasca means a super intense 8-12 hour trip - not exactly a walk in the park haha.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: TheEschatologist] * 1
    #26915672 - 09/03/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

If you do pharmahuasca, it's better to dose the harmalas 30 to 45min before dosing the dmt.

Reason behind is that harmalas need some time to fully inhibit gut-mao. If you dose both at the same time it might be that most (or all) of the dmt gets broken down by mao before the harmalas inhibit mao.

When I dose dmt orally, I dissolve my crystals in a shotglass with warm water and a splash of white vinegar. Stirr well and let sit for 20min.
This turns the freebase dmt into a salt, which is easier to digest and absorb by our stomache.
Lemon juice can also be used (warm water + a splash of lemon juice). Lemon turns it into dmt-citrate, vinegar into dmt-acetate. Both are salts, leading to less nausea than dmt freebase.

I dose my harmalas in a capsule (180 to 200mg of the pure alkaloids), then prepare my dmt-shot.
After 30 to 40min I drink the shot in one gulp and chase with something tasty, like some fruit juice.
Dmt dissolved in vinegar tastes very bad. Lemon might taste better, but I haven't tried this.  :sun:

Never had too bad nausea this way, at least I never puked from oral dmt this way. :thumbup:

-


Edited by Pandemoon (09/03/20 01:14 PM)


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26922504 - 09/07/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

@Pandemoon thank you sir, good info as always! :heart:

Just a quick followup question. Does capsulating the rue extract and/or the dmt change the dosing window when taking them together? I've read capsules can sometimes take a while to break open when in the stomach, so maybe that would change the 30-45 minute timing with the rue before the dmt?


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #26922540 - 09/07/20 07:28 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It depends on the capsule.

Some vegetarian capsuls (rare) are known to take longer than usual to dissolve in the stomache, but those common gelantine capsuls (most caps are gelantine) take maybe a minute or two till they are dissolved.

As I said, I take my harmalas always in a gel capsule, then like 30 to 40min later the dmt (dissolved as salt in a liquid, see above). Works well for me.

-


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26922679 - 09/07/20 09:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I always use ground encapsulated seeds these days, in gel caps, using the same time frame. I haven't had any issues. It's nice that they're so cheap, $20-30 worth is enough for years.


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26922725 - 09/07/20 09:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks a lot guys :raisemyglass: (that's me raising my glass of dmt juice to you)


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InvisibleLeafRaker
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Re: Have you ever had a bad experience with psilohuasca? (mushrooms + syrian rue) [Re: TheEschatologist] * 1
    #27116752 - 12/30/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheEschatologist said:

1) Have you had a rough experience with and if so, how and why do you think it happened?

2) How is the experience qualitatively different from mushrooms alone?

Thanks a lot, E




Saw the thread bumped by the ultra-negative response and was bummed by it. So I'm answering your thoughts with somewhat different take.

1) With well-targeted MAO-inhibition, it's always been smooth for me. I might have over-done the dosage and gotten into amnesia territory once. I not sure that amnesia is 'bad' or that it isn't therapeutic, but it certainly makes it harder to tell good stories about the experience.

2) I think getting the MAO right makes me much more relaxed and accepting than mush alone. I find staying still to be much easier. I find the synesthesia to be much more pronounced. And I find it there's a quality of being spoken to that's much more direct than mush alone. I had one experience, for example, where for thought after thought, I had a voice telling me to 'think bigger'.

To me, it's the best psychedelic experience, in my experience preferable to oral DMT/pharmahuasca. Part of the rewards, IMO, come from careful planning that's above and beyond what a typical mush-alone experience necessitates.


--------------------
Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.


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