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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 4 days, 3 hours
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When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them?
#26912388 - 09/01/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I mean the main reason people come here illegally is to work right? What if instead of jailing/deporting illegal immigrants we disincentivize businesses from hiring them with penalties like revoking business licenses and heavy fines?
Illegals get picked over citizens because they’ll work for less than minimum wage
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Patlal
You ask too many questions


Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 3 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
#26912455 - 09/01/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are already fines.
If an employer knowingly employs an illegal he coul;d face thousands in fines per employee and even jail time. Key word "knowingly"
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 27 minutes, 43 seconds
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
#26912464 - 09/01/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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In the U.S.? Probably never. Politicians would rather divide people over the subject than solve the problem. It's a fairly easy problem to solve too.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Patlal]
#26912465 - 09/01/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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If someone can hop over the border, not speak English and take your job, its time to give your career a second wind.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Asante]
#26912475 - 09/01/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: There are already fines.
If an employer knowingly employs an illegal he coul;d face thousands in fines per employee and even jail time. Key word "knowingly"
That's not really the issue in the U.S., though. The vast majority of illegals have over stayed their legally issued visa's. If it's a work visa, the employer should be fined. Depending on the size of the fine, it would either remove the incentive to hire immigrants, or encourage employers to insure they leave or achieve citizenship.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 4 days, 3 hours
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Patlal]
#26912477 - 09/01/20 05:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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If only there was a way to cross reference a database of eligible laborers using an identifying number such as a ssn
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 4 days, 3 hours
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Asante]
#26912479 - 09/01/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: If someone can hop over the border, not speak English and take your job, its time to give your career a second wind.
I think the requirements for citizenship are ridiculous. I doubt 10 percent of actual citizens could pass
The issue is people taking advantage of people who are willing to work for less than minimum wage
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lavod
Seal Whisperer


Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5,440
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Asante]
#26912907 - 09/01/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: If someone can hop over the border, not speak English and take your job, its time to give your career a second wind.
That's a faulty and insulting line ov reasoning IMO. The type ov labor that immigrants tend to gravitate toward is integral to the operation ov the country, in many cases far more crucial than those which require communication skills. One who chooses a career as such should'nt be derided for hir choice as there are many who desire that line ov work exclusive ov their potential abilities. And if one is happy with their career choice, then who is one to say that they should be doing something else?
I understand why people feel threatened by illegal immigration. I also understand the plight ov the immigrant and have worked with many. This is why illegal immigration is one ov the few topics i choose to not have a position on and generally avoid talking about it. But in terms ov what they do in this country and the jobs they may 'replace', i feel that they are necessary and one should'nt be criticized for it regardless ov their citizenry.
I used to work with an illegal who was a pro motocross racer and another who was a pro rodeo rider in their countries ov birth. Just because they gravitate towards similar occupations does not mean they have'nt the ability to do otherwise, and likewise for native laborers.
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mycosis


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 19,727
Loc: USSA
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Asante] 2
#26912929 - 09/01/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: If someone can hop over the border, not speak English and take your job, its time to give your career a second wind.
I agree.
Also if someone can hop over a border, not speak English, and end up being a land owner in a handful of years maybe you shouldn't cry about how everything is unfair and the system is rigged against you for some perceived endemic systemic bullshit when you've had every opportunity to do something for yourself.
Last summer I had the pleasure of working with a Cuban fella that barely speaks English, works his ass off, always has a smile on his face, loves America, hates Communism, and owns his own property after being here for 8 years. I consider myself pretty skilled at my chosen line of work but that little guy did things that made me want to take pictures while gringos moped around crying about how unfair the system is.
I'd hire ten of him.
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Lophosaurus
suruasohpol


Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 8,744
Loc: CA
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: mycosis] 1
#26912960 - 09/01/20 11:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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We need immigrants and they aren't taking anyone's job and if you want to pick fruit for less than minimum wage then I 100% guarantee that you can get a job and start picking tomorrow. There is plenty of work and opportunity for everyone and these people are usually good people and good workers. The US of A was built by immigrants and is made up of mostly immigrants.
The problem with illegal immigrants is that they use our infrastructure, hospitals, and schools and don't pay taxes. What we need to do is to document them, make them legal, and make sure they are paying their fair share.
I don't think the main reason that immigrants come here is for work. It's probably to escape the problems of their country such as violence and corruption.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: mycosis]
#26912991 - 09/01/20 11:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycosis said:
Quote:
Asante said: If someone can hop over the border, not speak English and take your job, its time to give your career a second wind.
I agree.
Also if someone can hop over a border, not speak English, and end up being a land owner in a handful of years maybe you shouldn't cry about how everything is unfair and the system is rigged against you for some perceived endemic systemic bullshit when you've had every opportunity to do something for yourself.
Last summer I had the pleasure of working with a Cuban fella that barely speaks English, works his ass off, always has a smile on his face, loves America, hates Communism, and owns his own property after being here for 8 years. I consider myself pretty skilled at my chosen line of work but that little guy did things that made me want to take pictures while gringos moped around crying about how unfair the system is.
I'd hire ten of him.
  
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Hartford
Lawful Good



Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 1,106
Loc: Tennessee
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26912993 - 09/01/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Blame consumers for wanting cheap goods and services.
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Ahab McBathsalts
OTD Windmill Administrator




Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 35,107
Loc: Wind Turbine, AB
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Hartford] 2
#26913134 - 09/02/20 04:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I got a USA work visa and straight up am stealing American jobs. Americans largely don't have the critical job skills needed. Years of underfunding schools, healthcare and critical infrastructure has left huge swaths of your workforce two steps behind where global employers expect a work force to be.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,340
Loc: attending Snake Church
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Patlal]
#26913194 - 09/02/20 05:44 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: There are already fines.
If an employer knowingly employs an illegal he coul;d face thousands in fines per employee and even jail time. Key word "knowingly"
Not in reality. The key word is "could", not "knowingly". My last job was at least 80% illegal. There was a skinhead excon forklift driver who was calling immigration every week. This was a big company with about 20 facilities. There was no way they could possibly make a case that they didn't know. Most of the workforce had marginal English skills. The production leads and the onsite people from the temp agency were all bilingual.
We never got raided. I'm not sure how this works. Maybe they only do raids when they want to make a political show of it, or maybe the company makes payoffs to the govt. IDK. But there is no way we would have this many illegal workers, if the govt. was really trying to go after the employers. My take is those workers are here because there supposed to be here.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,340
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 5 hours, 36 minutes
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Lophosaurus]
#26913200 - 09/02/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lophosaurus said: We need immigrants and they aren't taking anyone's job and if you want to pick fruit for less than minimum wage then I 100% guarantee that you can get a job and start picking tomorrow. There is plenty of work and opportunity for everyone and these people are usually good people and good workers. The US of A was built by immigrants and is made up of mostly immigrants.
The problem with illegal immigrants is that they use our infrastructure, hospitals, and schools and don't pay taxes. What we need to do is to document them, make them legal, and make sure they are paying their fair share.
I don't think the main reason that immigrants come here is for work. It's probably to escape the problems of their country such as violence and corruption.
I agree with most of what you said, but they pay taxes. They pay income tax and sales tax and while they probably aren't paying social security into their account, they're paying it into somebody's. There are some under the table jobs, but most pay taxes.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 4 days, 3 hours
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
#26913362 - 09/02/20 08:34 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said: I got a USA work visa and straight up am stealing American jobs. Americans largely don't have the critical job skills needed. Years of underfunding schools, healthcare and critical infrastructure has left huge swaths of your workforce two steps behind where global employers expect a work force to be.
You hit the nail on the head
Wish we’d stop spending so much on bombing innocent brown people and actually spent tax money on stuff that helped people.
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 4 days, 3 hours
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Hartford]
#26913366 - 09/02/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hartford said: Blame consumers for wanting cheap goods and services.
The reason consumers want cheap goods is because it’s so damn hard to make enough to get ahead with a low wage job in a poor community.
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Yeetusdeetus


Registered: 11/23/19
Posts: 1,242
Last seen: 4 days, 3 hours
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Brian Jones]
#26913370 - 09/02/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Patlal said: There are already fines.
If an employer knowingly employs an illegal he coul;d face thousands in fines per employee and even jail time. Key word "knowingly"
Not in reality. The key word is "could", not "knowingly". My last job was at least 80% illegal. There was a skinhead excon forklift driver who was calling immigration every week. This was a big company with about 20 facilities. There was no way they could possibly make a case that they didn't know. Most of the workforce had marginal English skills. The production leads and the onsite people from the temp agency were all bilingual.
We never got raided. I'm not sure how this works. Maybe they only do raids when they want to make a political show of it, or maybe the company makes payoffs to the govt. IDK. But there is no way we would have this many illegal workers, if the govt. was really trying to go after the employers. My take is those workers are here because there supposed to be here.
The oligarchs want you to think the immigrants are the problem, when really they’re the ones trying to get by with as much cheap labor as possible
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
#26913379 - 09/02/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah and consumers wanting cheap x does not necessarily bring about low prices for x. Consumers can want cheap rent all they like, but the landlords who own all the housing want high rent so tough shit.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: When do you think we’ll stop blaming immigrants for taking jobs and start blaming the people who hire them? [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
#26913422 - 09/02/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you're blaming the immigrants for the shape of the economy you're looking in the wrong place. And that's the point. We are supposed to idealize work work work when the best most of us can do without major sacrifice is just getting by. So you idealize the people withholding the things that can benefit society as a whole FOR THEMSELVES and these ultra-political asshats are brainwashed into hating the people LOWER ON THE TOTEM POLE THAN THEM for trying to better themselves. It just feels like racism and "poor me" behaviour, at least when contrasted with the total effect it has on the economy. I mean really is wealth distribution not the reason they have to go somewhere with a decent wage/quality of life in the first place..? this world is a migraine on my soul
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