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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #26909325 - 08/31/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:grin:
Good one.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26910965 - 08/31/20 10:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Rahz said:

I think there's some sense in the idea that trauma is self induced, but I've also learned that trauma can start with small things and when considering this and the causative quality of experience, there's probably a trail that leads back before us, and the idea that blame and fault are two different things is worth considering.




I think we can become attached to our suffering. Defined by it. I know I have in the past, and it takes a lot of work to resist that strong temptation. Recently I watched the PBS movie version of Jane Eyre, a book by Charlotte Brontë, and smiled when I heard this line.

You are not your wounds.




I agree. Certainly if one is making choices that cause unwanted suffering they are at fault. But blame is a different matter. If the world is causative with some randomness thrown in, is anyone to blame for anything? Giving ones self or others a hard time, and recognizing a fault and taking steps to fix it are two different things. Often it takes some of one to get to the other but there is a principle there.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Rahz]
    #26911356 - 09/01/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Peoples faults & mistakes can be likened to being “features” of human life.  To err is human, we make mistakes & have faults, and forgiveness is like a special hallucinogenic antidote for freeing our psychic life - which in turn eases the body by virtue of the laying down of whatever it is we actively burden ourselves with.
After all, isn’t primordial ignorance the ultimate root of them all?  So all the more reason to make good with oneself by befriending all of oneself!  They are bound to happen, naturally.  Accept & welcome oneself totally into ones own heart - and something awesome happens.  We become better & wiser - by virtue of being fundamentally chilled out about “it all” - aka - naturally at comfort & ease with the nature of all things.

Walking around without carrying 50 pounds of luggage in each hand after doing so for so long - will obviously provide a great big relief - but we often forget that not only does putting it down allow us a chance to rest, but also that the next time we pick “it” back up, it will feel lighter than before.

Sure there’s a times when carrying certain mental baggage can be needed, or we wouldn’t bother with it all - it’s called responsibilities  - but without balancing ourselves out with regards to carrying & letting stuff go whenever we can, things just become dark and confusing.  Forgiveness costs 0 energy and is a way to living more kindly, more gently, and more understanding of self and other - not to mention making our psychic life more spacious & our heart conscience cleaner & clearer.  Letting go requires little to no energy.  It’s the picking up & continual act of maintaining the “stuff” in our hearts/minds that is “extra”  That’s what costs energy - not the letting go.

An ancient & modern marvel if you ask me!  It’s like clearing your cookies / cache!  Or removing bogus cargo from certain areas of a ship in order to achieve/maintain proper balance & buoyancy.

I once invited shame in out of the rain  - and found he was really quite the nice fellow once we spent some time getting to each other.
After getting to know him he transformed into a Buddha! and upon seeing that happen, I too, was inevitably transformed into a Buddha!
Funny how things can work out like that sometimes. 



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Edited by The Blind Ass (09/02/20 06:57 AM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26911992 - 09/01/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well, assuming forgiveness costs no effort that doesn't necessarily make it the intuitive choice. There is effort and reward, and circumventing that idea is frowned upon in many ways. It could be that such an effortless happening is like the rain and wind slowly wearing away a dam until it collapses and releases it's water. Can one choose to let that happen, or must one wait on the weather? And while I hope most of us have some experience with letting go, and within that experience there is the perception that everyone has that potential, the reality seems to be that some people don't. What's possible it what actually happens and many people die angry or sad, feeling alone. I think hope is what keeps many people going, but from a philosophical perspective should we be entirely optimistic even if it conflicts with how reality seems to be?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Rahz]
    #26912055 - 09/01/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The process of investigating those questions you ask can sometimes be part of the fun of life...and conversely, sometimes it’s better not to inquire further into certain things. However, not being dependent upon a view of this or that for freedom, I rest easy, like a good good for nothing.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (09/01/20 02:19 PM)


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Rahz]
    #26912077 - 09/01/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
... recognizing a fault and taking steps to fix it are two different things...




We're not all in agreement that a fault exists. Evaluation can be subjective...

...heads it's the gas chambers, tails it's off with their heads


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26912088 - 09/01/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What if the coin disappears in mid air while being flipped?  Or lands on its edge and stands aright?

Or if it turns into a bird and flies away because it would rather not be part of your chancy games....

What then, friend?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26912129 - 09/01/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I think it's a fair assumption that a Sunday drive isn't supposed to be a nightmare of undercarriage wrecking pot holes and alterations with psychotic pedestrians. Generally speaking then I think it's fair to assume that these obstacles to a pleasant outing are adressed on some level.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26912172 - 09/01/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Evaluation can be subjective...





Certainly, but an undesired outcome is an undesired outcome and there is a component of skill involved just as there are in more objective activities. Missing a target is a fault, same as a mistake. If one's actions result in suffering, it's not a stretch to suggest a mistake was made.

Humans are prone to make mistakes and generally have the capacity to learn from them and produce more desirable results, either by being more skillful or by changing activities. And that is the point in the distinction between fault and blame. One does not necessarily need to feel shame for their faults.

However, being that it does happen, if one considers everything that happens to be necessary...


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26912176 - 09/01/20 03:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
The process of investigating those questions you ask can sometimes be part of the fun of life...and conversely, sometimes it’s better not to inquire further into certain things. However, not being dependent upon a view of this or that for freedom, I rest easy, like a good good for nothing.




I can dig it.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Rahz]
    #26913163 - 09/02/20 05:01 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It's only really when you have a goal in mind that you move towards it right?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: sudly]
    #26913216 - 09/02/20 06:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt sclerocis of the liver is a conscious objective.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: sudly]
    #26913273 - 09/02/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
It's only really when you have a goal in mind that you move towards it right?



you kidding,

often the goal appears because you have already been moving towards it, or it swerves into your zone and you like it and latch on for the ride.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26913395 - 09/02/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

In Bizarro World the hardening of the liver (living god) can be a conscious objective.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26913485 - 09/02/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

there are no other kinds of objective.

the reasonableness of the objective could be questioned, but reason is not necessarily part of the picture. our brains only work through associativity. Things that make sense just means that things can be associated with what we already have some familiarity.

hard livers and hard lives kinda go together making sense where no man would like to admit.

usually a hard drinkin' family will have it's destiny set for more of the same liver damage.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26913701 - 09/02/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:geicogecko: : Divination by the liver, like in ancient times. 


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26913756 - 09/02/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I hope they fried chicken liver in ancient times - very good with carmelized onions in olive oil.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26913810 - 09/02/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Dodo livers may have been the preference in ancient times.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26913876 - 09/02/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

tastes like chicken


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: I've lost my shame. [Re: sudly]
    #26914093 - 09/02/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
It's only really when you have a goal in mind that you move towards it right?




"I want to be happy/free" can be a difficult goal to move towards. Material goals may not provide the desired result or only a momentary result. Eating healthy and exercise have positive correlations but only part of the puzzle and often there can be an over emphasis. Being more spiritual, meditating towards a breakthrough, taking therapy, etc. are things which can actually make things worse short term, pulling up things that were once avoided, and such things can be abandoned before they become effective.

That's not to say there's no progress being made with any of those things, but movement may not be apparent.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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