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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2695143 - 05/18/04 06:49 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

If I had telekenetic powers I would A) practice 6 hours a day B) have nothing to prove therefor not pointlessly argue about it for hours on the internet.

I once met a guy who told me he could use telekenetic abilities, but he hasn't been practicing it since he learned how so he hasn't developed the skill. Excuse me??? WHAT??? You can move objects with your mind and you AREN'T PRACTICING ALL DAY?? Why wouldn't you??

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OfflineHypnoToad
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2695266 - 05/18/04 08:29 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

"what Swami does not understand is that PSI can only exist if you believe it."

Which means that it isn't true.Real phenomena occurs independent or belief or lack thereof.While I am a believer in some psi phenomena others so far have yet to be proven to me.I cannot say I am a skeptic nor a believer but somewhere in between.I have a very scientific oriented mind which thirsts for proof in everything which is claimed.While I have met valid psychics and have experienced real phenomena firsthand I have yet to see an external display of psi or psychic ability.IE telekinesis and other phenomena which affects a physical enviroment.I have however met my share of magicians,frauds and failed attempts.There are many ways in which to fake telekinesis and other "phenomena" through simple small devices and other methods of making objects move which appear to be telekinesis.

I can make a balloon or other wind current affected items like a PINWHEEL appear to move via telekinesis using subtle controlled breath from my lungs.It doesnt appear that I am using my breath to move it but I am.This is a common method of faking telekinesis.I have seen people do it from several feet away or more through controlled breath.I have also read about a man who moved pages in an open bible using his breath from several feet away.He became adept at it and conned many many people while he was in prison.In prison he practiced breath control techniques which helped him alot.I sincerely doubt external physical phenomena like telekinesis exists.Considering there are 6,000,000,000 people in this world,if even one percent of the population could perform telekinesis 60 million people could do it.And considering how only a few thousand people seem to claim it far less than one percent supposedly claim to have telekinesis,in my opinion it is unlikely to be true.Natural phenomena like rare genetic abnormalities have much better odds than that.lmao

Considering there are far more than a few thousand delusional people in this world it could very easily be a community of hopefuls,conmen and liars.

If everyone has the ability at least one percent even should be able to display telekinesis and seeing how I dont see 60 million telekinetic people running around or 1 out of 100 people its filed under my category of urban myths.lol

However I am always open to seeing "evidence".Although most of the evidence I've seen can be easily exposed.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."


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Offlinedeff
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2696141 - 05/18/04 01:15 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Haha, this is very amusing to me. While I said I would end the arguement, I simply cannot help but add some points to previous posts. You want evidence? Try it yourself, sheesh. I am not here claiming to be cool or any bullshit like that, nor do I think I'm special for being able to perform telekinesis, because ANYONE CAN. As for not being able to show people, this isn't true. I've shown all my friends and got one of them to start practicing it as well. There is no "code" for telekinesis, that is something that people use to make themselves seem superior for harnessing in on the very natural ability. Although, I do find it takes longer to get started in front of a skeptic, just because it's much harder to relax and enter a focused mindset when the stress of having to prove it comes into play. But it will still work, and never have I not been able to do it in front of someone.

I had the same idea about practicing all day long with telekinetic powers. The fact is that the appeal degrades very quickly, and it loses it's "omg that's not possible! WTF!" outlook. Also progression is slow and can be discouraging, as many people do not get further than spinning the psiwheel. At first I pacticed 3 hours a day spinning the damned thing for about a week, when suddenly the idea of it became so normal to me that it was no longer anything amazing, just a simple hobby.

As for the reason why you must believe in it. How do you expect your subconscious to attempt to find the method of telekinesis (it is very much a subconscious ability, not conscious), when it itself finds it impossible. Surely you cannot fully believe until you do it/see it done, but you must have enough faith to actually practice it with an open mind, and not just give up after a minute and claim others with the ability must be delusion psyhopaths, or greedy dishonest tricksters.

Anyways, I'm truly surprised for such an open-minded forum as the Shroomery is, and for all the posters in the spiritual and philosophy board, very few actually practice telekinesis or will even admit that it exists. Years ago people would have thought that sending images and sound through the air via satellites was impossible, but as science progresses so does our understanding, and one day soon telekinesis will be revealed after it's long unnoticed state.

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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2696283 - 05/18/04 01:37 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I and others I know have faithfully practiced such exercises as one is supposed to develop telekineis in the past for a substantial amount of time without any results whatsoever.I also have conversed with many others whom had practiced faithfully and truly believed it possible yet no results were obtained.On the basis of such information and personal experiments done I must conclude that telekinesis is nothing more than simply popular urban myth.And that is my stance until something is presented that changes my stance.Such as valid evidence which isnt trickery.

If telekinesis is possible by everyone and reportedly so easy then why must one concentrate and work toward it unlike other natural functions of the body which occur spontaneously on their own.Thoughts can be random and unprovoked,muscles can twitch even though not in use or intent to use them,and so on...In theory one would then believe that telekinesis(if real) would also occur spontaneously sooner or later.However I do not know of one witnessed account of any form of telekinesis intentional nor spontaneous that has been witnessed by myself or anyone I know or have conversed with other than people who claim they can do it.Let alone the public at large or any recorded event.If telekinesis is indeed real and not trickery why is there not credible and real videos or live broadcasts done of telekinesis.And if telekinesis were real there would be degrees of skill which means out there somewhere someone should be able to lift large items like chairs,tables,furniture at the least if not large rocks or cars.Why is it people only ever claim to move small items or wind affected items like pinwheels,needles,pens,bits of paper etc...

While I am incredibly open-minded I am certainly not a fool.I will not believe the mere word of random internet people.I require like a true scientist logical evidence that proofs or lends at least a bit of credibility toward such a claim.If you indeed can really perform telekinesis authentically then you should have no problem performing for someone credible or a legitimate video recording of any sort.And indeed if you can perform authentic telekinesis enter one of any number of numerous contest offering hefty sums of money ranging from tens of thousands on up.And why has not ONE person suceeded in ANY of the contests that are being held and have been held by numerous different people and organizations?If you indeed can do it why not perform for experts and prove the world wrong and earn a hefty sum of money and a certain amount of fame?


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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."


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Offlinedeff
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2696419 - 05/18/04 02:08 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

"If telekinesis is possible by everyone and reportedly so easy then why must one concentrate and work toward it unlike other natural functions of the body which occur spontaneously on their own."

We are brought into this world and instantly see people walking. And so as a baby we attempt to emulate this and yet fall short, to only crawling until our physical limitations allow us to walk. As well as verbal communication, we hear people talking and thus we learn the language very easily at a young age. However, most people are not brought up around psychic abilities, as they are generally considered fraudulant by our Western culture, which puts a huge emphasis on scientific studies and pharmecuticals, rather than personal experience and natural scources. Also, just as a baby may be able to walk but not yet be able to articulate ideas in complete sentences, it is not to say that the abilitity is not possible. Certain abilities take larger mental focus than others, and for a society deprived of the proper emphasis on spirituality, meditation, and mindwork, it is no wonder that such an ability rarely occurs without one practicing it.

"If telekinesis is possible by everyone and reportedly so easy then why must one concentrate and work toward it unlike other natural functions of the body which occur spontaneously on their own.Thoughts can be random and unprovoked,muscles can twitch even though not in use or intent to use them,and so on...In theory one would then believe that telekinesis(if real) would also occur spontaneously sooner or later."

I already explained the first part, but onto the second. Telekinesis does occur spontaneously on its own. Have you ever heard of poltergeists? While these two are often passed off as fake, they are very much real, however they are not ghosts or spirits. When someone becomes depressed or stressed to a certain level, sometimes they subconscious mind will spontaneously throw an object accross the room, break a dish, ecetera. This is particualrily common in tennagers due to hormonal imbalances.

"If telekinesis is indeed real and not trickery why is there not credible and real videos or live broadcasts done of telekinesis."

Here are some videos:
http://www.themur.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/peebrain00.avi
http://users.pandora.be/Lightwaverz/psipog/themandarin00.avi
http://www.simsources.com/ni00.avi
http://users.pandora.be/Lightwaverz/psipog/ni01.avi (really good)

There have also been live broadcats of people performing TK, most notably was a man by the name of Uri Geller - www.uri-geller.com - who did many live performances, as well as a spoon bending attempt over the radio in which hundreds of people listening reported bent cutlery. To me though, he's a bit of a sell-out and seems to care too much about being a star. But, whatever.

"Why is it people only ever claim to move small items or wind affected items like pinwheels,needles,pens,bits of paper etc..."

People do progress past this. Check out that last video I posted of the watch, it's pretty impressive. Also...



"If you indeed can do it why not perform for experts and prove the world wrong and earn a hefty sum of money and a certain amount of fame? "

People have done this before. Scientists have even stated they believed the demonstartions were real. Yet other scientists often dismiss any paranormal studies. I will try and find some such studies to post in a bit. Anyways, that it all. Good day.

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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2696534 - 05/18/04 02:26 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I have numerous videos and pictures of telekinesis however none seem to be authentic at all.I or anyone else with the ambition to do so could replicate all the same feats done.I especially dont believe the photo evidence given on the site listed earlier in the thread.The "psi balls" were done on crappy webcams and mook like they were done with colored lights in a dark area.Why are there never any high quality photos of such?Some evidence defies the logical physics of what telekinesis would be like for example the photo of the knive was simply dropped and photographed mid air.Telekinesis should levitate it evenly because the weight of the item is pretty even if not uniform through out the knife and would not tilt so badly unless dropped.I if I wanted to waste my time could produce a much more convincing photo.The videos are amateurish attempts at trickery from the ones I've seen.Only the hands are shown.One could easily just blow on the object or have a friend do it if different angles are needed.One could also uses magnets to accomplish some of the telekinesis feats.It doesnt take a genius to replicate those.There are very few videos and the ones I've seen are childishly simplistic in trickery.Why do none of them show the entire body and more of the room?Sufficient evidence would be a sterile enviroment chosen by the tester or even a 3rd party and inspected prior to any attempt and also be rcorded at multiple camera angles and also the person being tested should be searched to ensure authenticity or at the minimum some protection against trickery.Those videos and the pics arent very good evidence at all.I could produce a photo of me levitating a car or even a small video clip of it but that doesnt mean its authenthic and its piss poor evidence.Not poor but piss poor.lol

In all seriousness you've not even put a molecule of credibility into any of this yet.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."


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Offlinedeff
just love everyone
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Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2696887 - 05/18/04 03:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly, no matter how credible a video source will look there will always be the argument of possible tampering. As for why they're all taken with crappy webcams, well it's because these are just average people making videos for the psionic community, and they don't invest large sums of money into such. I know it's not a good argument, but do you honestly think all of us are trying to trick people we don't know into believing something like telekinesis? No. The site those videos are from even says this:

"Before you download anything, you have to realize the purpose of the Media section. The purpose is NOT to prove that psionics is real. These videos/pictures are not here to say "see? told you!". Everyone knows that videos and pictures can be faked - please do not go around saying how you think something was faked, there are literally hundreds of ways to fake the files below. With that said; they aren't fake . But draw your own conclusions. The media here is presented for documentation and motivational purposes. I know personally whenever NI sends in a new TK video I start my training again because his stuff just amazes me... and I've also gotten countless e-mails from people saying that they couldn't spin the pinwheel until after seeing the videos. This is the purpose of the Media. To help people train, not to convince skeptics."

Anyways, your arguments are much more credible. For example-

"I and others I know have faithfully practiced such exercises as one is supposed to develop telekineis in the past for a substantial amount of time without any results whatsoever.I also have conversed with many others whom had practiced faithfully and truly believed it possible yet no results were obtained."

and yet...

"The only social interactions I really have are here.I rarely talk to anyone and I have a great disdain toward society especially social structures.I do not participate in human society."

Hmm...

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OfflineHypnoToad
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2697903 - 05/18/04 05:36 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Simple miswording.I meant have known.I was in a hurry today.I had alot to get done at that moment.Anyways my credibility has no bearing on this we're discussing yours.In the second sentence I used proper PAST tense as shown : "I also  have  conversed with many others whom had practiced faithfully and truly believed it possible yet no results were obtained."

I said have coversed not do converse.I hardly think a typo affects my credibility.Also I stated I rarely talk to anyone.I never said I never talk to anyone.

"I rarely talk to anyone and I have a great disdain toward society especially social structures."

You're just getting pissy because no one believes you.You're getting irritated and angry.lol Merely a work of the ego.Those seeking fame or attention for what they do.Say what you want about ro to me and it does nothing for your argument.It certainly doesnt bother me one bit.

And in a sense I still KNOW these same people however I dont really ever talk to them anymore.I havent spoke to them in several months.I just sort of slowly dropped out of sight.I dont visit them or go to their house or call them.They contact me every once in a great while for a couple minute convo and Im not cold to them although their conversation is shallow to me and I dont care for it but I do listen.I try to distance myself but im not going to be mean.I treat others with respect even if I dont like them or something they do.The only person I see or talk to with any sort of regularity is my fiancee.

I could be the world's worst person and it still doesnt lend you any credibility and it certainly doesnt affect the credibility or lack thereof of telekinesis.If you can truly perform telekinesis dont get angry and lash out simply prove us wrong or attempt to.

Those who can,do.Those who cant fake it.Its that simple.

If you can truly do this and arent seeking money or fame why is your ego bruised and why are you lashing out?

And yes for the longest time I did try to practice telekinesis exercises.I read every book I could find on the subject and I read numerous websites over the years.I followed everything perfectly and yet no results.I encourage everyone who reads this to try and I'm confident they will come to the same conclusion as I have.

"Anyways, your arguments are much more credible."

I am so glad you finally came to your senses and agreed with me.;) :grin:

Btw, your saying that one must believe for it to happen,well that's like saying we have to believe in gravity for it to hold us to the earth.Skepticism has no bearing on the ability or inability to do something.Skepticism if any would make it more likely to occur since they're not trying to believe that something will occur and will not misinterpret anything.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."


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Offlinedeff
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2698042 - 05/18/04 06:10 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I think you're greatly overexaggerating. I'm not angry nor lashing out at all. We were just engaging in a friendly debate-type discussion, and I thought I'd throw that in there as I can tell you're not being truthful about your statements. But that's alright, I don't mind, and I realize my example was weak yet I posted it for fun anyways.

But you're right, this is about my credibility, and I cannot prove to you my credibility other than through meeting you in person. I respect your skepticism and I understand, as I too would have been skeptical of telekinesis a year ago. This is expected whenever I dare tell someone about my hobby, yet it's always been in person so I could show them right after.

Anyways it was far from my intentions to debate the the truth behind telekinesis, as I know firsthand it is real, and I know others who practice it as well. No, I do not seek fame or money, not because it's part of some secret code or anything, but because it goes against my personal beliefs. This is not to say that if someone, like swami, offered me 20 bucks I wouldn't show him it, but honestly, I'd give it back after or atleast buy him lunch :laugh:

As for your belief in gravity for it to work, that is irrevelant. Gravity works on the principle of attractive forces, in this case the earth, and has no role with our subconscious like telekinesis does. Anyways, if you honestly think I'm making this up, it does not matter to me.

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InvisibleMr_Gubjet


Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 323
Loc: Infinitus Kosmos
Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2698076 - 05/18/04 06:18 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
You know when you're tripping on magic mushrooms and you discover that something's been sitting right in front of you staring you in the face but you never noticed until your reality is jostled by a shroom trip?

One time on mushrooms my friend pointed out the aura around a tree and I looked and boom there it was! It was there all along, I just never saw it. Since then, should I so choose, I could see the tree auras without use of drugs. I though this was pretty neat. Next I was high on mushrooms and syrian rue when I discovered that I was telepathically communicating with a friend of mine, and ever since then, I've understood how to put out my "antenae" and sense the dynamic of my relationship with another person.

I imagine there are a number of you out there who've discovered similiar things while on mushrooms. What I like about this effect I'm describing is that you gain something that lasts longer than the shroom trip.




The reason for any being to take an entheogen :

To expand there consciousness and transcend the Ego.

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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2698199 - 05/18/04 06:44 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I am being 100 percent honest about what I say but I cant prove that to you any more than you can prove telekinesis to me.I regularly misword,type typos and even mis-speak and stutter and I have to proofread and correct alot of what i type but thats a personal reason why and I wont get into it here.Some people here know why and most dont.

"I thought I'd throw that in there as I can tell you're not being truthful about your statements."

And you did take a direct attack at my credibility in response to my saying it can easily be faked and what not.Even now you call me a liar.I really dont care however because I'm not here to prove anything to anyone.Think what you'd like of me because the only person it matters to is you.

I'm not questioning your credibility I am merely saying that I cannot blindly believe it without proof.Just as if I claimed to walk on water or anything that seems extraordinary to you,you would definitely want proof as well.

Every other force follows a pattern.And that pattern is that no matter what you think or believe the forces work independently of people.So it cannot truly be called a force if you must believe in it for it to work.And I did believe it to be very possible at one point in time.I did in fact practice relentlessly day after day.nd I can manipulate my own chi or energy.I regular demonstrate this by taking solid hits and absorbing them and by my breaking,rooting and numerous other martial arts applications of chi.Which should in fact then make it easier for me to do telekinesis then.I have witnessed many a phenomena and I am very open to various phenomena however I have yet for anyone to show me telekinesis is more than mere myth.If you can do so.If not I remain skeptical.I am not out to disprove you at all.I am out to find evidence OF various phenomena.However when no credible evidence is found one must assume there is none.I dont doubt telekinesis may be possible in theory.Simply because humans only use roughly 10 percent of their brain according to various sources.However I am very skeptical of internet claims period no matter what they may be.Because here anyone can talk crap and get away with doing so.It's not like if you see someone and they go "I can perform telekinesis." And then you're like "Show me." and then they can or cant do it.If you can do it be proud.You have nothing to prove unless you choose to prove it.However be warned most people will meet you with extreme skepticism and disbelief and it's somethign you have to deal with.


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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2699101 - 05/18/04 10:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

swami, please reply and show everyone you're not full of shit. i really need the money, and i'm now willing to pay for a ticket to go out there.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2699650 - 05/19/04 01:02 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Swami will be back in 3 days :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: trendal]
    #2700862 - 05/19/04 11:04 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

woot. i'm really excited, in the past i've been too lazy to go to las vegas, but swami seems pretty for real, so i'd love some mopney


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Offlinedeff
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2701551 - 05/19/04 01:32 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry about the attack HypnoTaod. I said that in order to imply skepticism of your own credibility as a lot of people have done so of mine. It was not meant to hurt you or anything, and I believe that you have tried telekinesis before.

I urge you to try telekinesis again if you're that interest in it. If you don't seem to be seeing any results, I suggest some meditation. Meditation helps a great deal with telekinesis, as well as practically everything else in life, as it allows one to maintain a relaxed, focused, and mindless state. If you should try telekinesis again, here's a tip. Don't try to hard. For whatever reason, it works much better with a completely empty mind. As well don't try to consciously move it with your mind, but rather let your subconscious figure it out for you. The subconscious mind is way smarter than you or me (and by you or my I mean our consciouses). Anyways, no hard feelings.

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OfflineHypnoToad
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2701610 - 05/19/04 01:45 PM (19 years, 9 months ago)

I appologize if it seemed like I was attacking you as well Deff.

In the world of today's technology it is so easy to trick others and that's where I'm sure most of this skepticism is rooted.It is that way at least for me.Photos can easily be altered with little time and tech. and videos can be altered with more time and effort.Which means a sterile environment and firsthand witnessing the phenomena is the only evidence that can be believed in.I of course will get around to attempting it once again.The lack of evidence or failure to do something isn't proof it doesn't exist.However it does nothing to prove it either.lol.When I tried telekinesis years ago I know I tried to make things happen I.E. force it to move.I will try it again.Perhaps now my experiments may yield different results,erhaps not but it anything worth doing once is always worth doing again.

Do not pay any mind to any skepticism or criticism by anyone.Remember it's not personal. :grin:


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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2704893 - 05/20/04 09:09 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
Do some reasearch on the subject, it's been practiced by many people and there are quite a few groups on the internet for it.




If you could practice telekinesis you would easily make millions of dollars. I'm sure a variety of companies that do work in many fields would pay you large amounts of cash in order to become the subject of their research and only their research. If you had this ability, someone would see an obvious opportunity to make billions of dollars off your ability.

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: deff]
    #2704908 - 05/20/04 09:14 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
I know we have nerves that allow us to move our muscles, and chemical reactions stimulate these nervous systems within our brain, but you have to ask yourself- what initiates this movement of energy? It's the same with telekinesis.




And therefore its study would easily fall into the realm of investigation that make up physics and physical chemistry.

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InvisiblePhencyclidine
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2704974 - 05/20/04 09:41 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

By the way, I could guarantee that you would easily make millions of dollars using this ability. The first use I can think of for it off the top of my head woiuld be manipulating chemical reactions in situ. Patenting this kind of technology would be worth billions of dollars.

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OfflineGeeno
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Re: One reason everybody should eat magic mushrooms [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2705225 - 05/20/04 10:53 AM (19 years, 9 months ago)

If your goal is to make a million dollars you wont be able to use telekenisis.

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