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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27091300 - 12/15/20 10:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

If you were one of my team members, I would have sent you for blood work the moment you felt faint, and fired you the moment they saw drugs in your system. Partly because that's protocol.

Of course, in my line of work, passing out could mean several thousands of gallons of chemical reactor vessel exploding. It's unlikely, because there's multiple failsafes, but an operator showing up high...this is one of those "not my fault, but most definitely my immediate problem to solve" moments. The solution to that problem is very clearly laid out in the employee handbook.

I don't really care what you do in your free time. I know several of my operators smoke weed, and I trust them to keep that shit under control, which is why they're conveniently never in the random drug test sample. Of course, if it ever becomes a problem, guess who gets "randomly selected". That cavalier attitude of "oh, it's only happened a few times", when referring to, once again, what looks like a serious medical emergency, is why I don;t take potheads seriously. It's an attitude I had, too. Until I grew out of it.

Edit: I know several people in positions similar to mine that take a much stricter view of drug use and will seek out and fire anyone that smokes weed. Personally, I don;t think that's necessary. I don't think weed use is an inherently bad idea that will always lead to problems. I do, however, recognize that it can very easily lead to problems, such as the one you have described in detail.


Edited by Kryptos (12/15/20 10:21 PM)


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos]
    #27091330 - 12/15/20 10:41 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

These were just retail jobs. A high industry job like yours, yeah, of course you need to be sober.


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos]
    #27091335 - 12/15/20 10:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Okay. .. ETC.




You misunderstood my post I think, or did not really read it. The blanket statement "X is bad" is ENTIRELY different from accepting that "X has negative aspects and positive aspects"

Under your premise, every single drug, medicine, food, and activity on the planet "IS BAD" because it has at least one negative aspect. Take, for example, the laxative plant senna. Prolonged use (over two weeks) leads to intestinal problems. But the plant will quickly get you out of a constipation problem in a pinch. So, is by your definition senna bad or good?

This is a typical false dychotomy, a logical fallacy. I am not advocating for doing high risk jobs/tasks while stoned, by the way. But the ridiculous statement that a drug as relatively harmless as weed is "bad" and technically on the same level as something as addictive as alcohol (of which abstinence can LITERALLY kill you) is ridiculous. Alcohol has been linked to more cases of violence, accidents, and disease than probably any other psychoactive drug. It is bad in a much broader and general sense than your "weed is bad" statement. If people would just use cannabis more than alcohol this shithole world would be much better.

edit: and I'll add that I think one's responsibilities, especially if they can put others in danger, should be tackled while completely sober.


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Edited by jomanda1990 (12/15/20 10:45 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: jomanda1990]
    #27091341 - 12/15/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jomanda1990 said:
Under your premise, every single drug, medicine, food, and activity on the planet "IS BAD"




Quote:

Kryptos said:
Everything is bad for you.




That is, quite literally, an argument I have presented in this thread, yes. The point being that failure to recognize that is stupid.

EDIT:

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
These were just retail jobs. A high industry job like yours, yeah, of course you need to be sober.




Thing is, from a corporate perspective, there's no difference. The stoner is the scapegoat. Every company (in the US) has either an explicit or unofficial policy of drug testing everyone within 20 feet of anything going wrong and blaming it on whoever fails. Assuming that they are replaceable. Boss man's safe, no matter how drunk they were when they started driving the forklift. Failure to recognize that is also stupid.


Edited by Kryptos (12/15/20 10:57 PM)


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27091408 - 12/15/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

There are some things that are worse than “stoners”

People who judge other people that they don’t know.

But it’s not a total loss though. Anyone who doesn’t like me based on appearance, or if I smoke pot or whatever it may be makes it so much easier to get those negative “better than you” folks out of your life.

I haven’t smoked pot in a while but I would never hang out with a dude that has that kind of negativity in their heart.


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos]
    #27091412 - 12/15/20 11:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

That is, quite literally, an argument I have presented in this thread, yes. The point being that failure to recognize that is stupid.





It's not stupid at all, you're just offering a false dichotomy of "It's either bad or it's not."

Perhaps you should really try to think what "bad" means to you. Are bad and good mutually exclussive charactersitics? If so, I suggest you pick other words like "has a negative side" instead of "is bad", for the sake of this thread and like, any conversation in general.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: jomanda1990]
    #27091456 - 12/16/20 12:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think that bad and good are mutually exclusive characteristics. I don't think using different words, like "has a negative side" is any more accurate. All it does is limit the model by adding unnecessary complexity.

The only dichotomy I present is simply that for an average human, with no other external or internal factors at play, smoking weed is worse than not smoking weed. Of course, this is an idealized situation neglecting literally all other factors, therefore largely incompatible with reality.

Think of my position like a question in a physics textbook. A weight thrown upward at 100m/s second will decelerate at 9.8m/s^2, until it begins to fall, and returns to its previous position.

Of course, if I go outside and throw a ball in the air, it won't reach the same height. It won't land in the exact place it was thrown from. The physics textbook neglects things like air resistance, wind, weight distribution, friction forces from my hand, the hydraulic force applied to the ball by my heart through the veins in my hand...etc. There are countless external factors that are ignored by the physics textbook. Some of which, we don't even know about. Some of which we cannot account for due to Heisenberg uncertainty.

Doesn't mean the physics textbook is wrong. The concept is still correct, even though it is only completely accurate in an imagined scenario that can never exist in the real world.


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Offlinejomanda1990
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos]
    #27091471 - 12/16/20 01:11 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Oh okay, gotcha. I see where you're coming from now. IMO, I don't really see the value in judging a substance in a vacuum though. We might as well argue that breathing is bad because it causes oxidative reactions that give rise to free radicals and therefore aging or whatever lol.

That said, if we take a few external factors into account, I believe moderate weed usage could be more beneficial than detrimental to the average person in modern Western capitalist societies, just by virtue of reducing stress levels (one of the most highly correlated factors with various cancers and chronic disorders). The damage or long-term chemical alterations noted in neurological studies mostly came from what I'd personally gauge as overly frequent users. 

Then again, it's just my 2 cents and don't wanna judge anybody; I'm just projecting what would be my decision making onto the general population.

aight I should get back to business and finish some work, it's freaking 5 AM here and I wanna go to sleep already :sad:


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: jomanda1990]
    #27093094 - 12/16/20 09:14 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jomanda1990 said:
I don't really see the value in judging a substance in a vacuum though.




I think it's better than the alternative. As soon as you start including other factors, you limit the applicability of a statement. To use your stress example: Yes, for many, possibly even most, people weed relieves stress.

Unfortunately, for one of my highschool friends, smoking weed caused continuous, hours long, panic attacks combined with extreme paranoia. That wasn't him getting too stoned, either. Secondhand smoke would trigger severe panic attacks.

Not exactly a great way to blow off some steam, for him.

This is actually part of where my thoughts on this topic come from: the first few times, my friend group tried giving him weed to calm him down, without realizing we were making the issue worse. He'd tag along, start panicking from being near us while we were smoking, we'd say "here, smoke this", and it got worse.

On the other hand, I knew a severely epileptic girl in college who carried an entire pharmacy in her purse at all times and had seizures several times per week. Then she started smoking weed, and suddenly she didn't need the pills, or having a friend around at all times that knew how to spot and respond to epileptic seizures.

If you have a specific issue that weed has been known to help (I count "I'm bored on a weekend" as an issue here, because that's usually the problem weed fixes for me), by all means go ahead. Just because it's a net benefit for you, or maybe even most people, doesn't mean it's a net benefit for everyone. Part of the reason that I maintain the position that "weed is bad for you" is because in my experience, the vast majority of people overlook the possible negatives because they're automatically comparing it to things like alcohol or cigarettes. The way most potheads talk about weed, again, in my experience, it's the second coming of Jesus Christ in plant form. And that's just not true.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos]
    #27093433 - 12/17/20 03:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Put modern day pills used by people into the equation. The shit pharmaceutical companies are pushing, their side effects, how addictive they are. Smoke some pot. Fuck what people have to say. There’s always gonna some loser talking about you behind your back nothing new there


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos]
    #27093439 - 12/17/20 03:05 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

jomanda1990 said:
I don't really see the value in judging a substance in a vacuum though.




I think it's better than the alternative. As soon as you start including other factors, you limit the applicability of a statement. To use your stress example: Yes, for many, possibly even most, people weed relieves stress.

Unfortunately, for one of my highschool friends, smoking weed caused continuous, hours long, panic attacks combined with extreme paranoia. That wasn't him getting too stoned, either. Secondhand smoke would trigger severe panic attacks.

Not exactly a great way to blow off some steam, for him.

This is actually part of where my thoughts on this topic come from: the first few times, my friend group tried giving him weed to calm him down, without realizing we were making the issue worse. He'd tag along, start panicking from being near us while we were smoking, we'd say "here, smoke this", and it got worse.

On the other hand, I knew a severely epileptic girl in college who carried an entire pharmacy in her purse at all times and had seizures several times per week. Then she started smoking weed, and suddenly she didn't need the pills, or having a friend around at all times that knew how to spot and respond to epileptic seizures.

If you have a specific issue that weed has been known to help (I count "I'm bored on a weekend" as an issue here, because that's usually the problem weed fixes for me), by all means go ahead. Just because it's a net benefit for you, or maybe even most people, doesn't mean it's a net benefit for everyone. Part of the reason that I maintain the position that "weed is bad for you" is because in my experience, the vast majority of people overlook the possible negatives because they're automatically comparing it to things like alcohol or cigarettes. The way most potheads talk about weed, again, in my experience, it's the second coming of Jesus Christ in plant form. And that's just not true.




Some people shouldn’t smoke pot, it’s not for everybody. That’s OK
Some people over do it. So what? Is it really anyone’s business?

Judge not lest you be judged. Judge me and I’ll judge you.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Citizen X]
    #27093881 - 12/17/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
Judge not lest you be judged. Judge me and I’ll judge you.




Dude, if a neutral statement like "weed is bad for you" is what you call judgement, then I have no idea how you've survived.


Quote:

Kryptos said:
To a small subset of stoners, a subset that I unfortunately belonged to for about a year or two in late high school, that's an attack on their identity.




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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos]
    #27095131 - 12/17/20 11:56 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Citizen X said:
Judge not lest you be judged. Judge me and I’ll judge you.




Dude, if a neutral statement like "weed is bad for you" is what you call judgement, then I have no idea how you've survived.


Quote:

Kryptos said:
To a small subset of stoners, a subset that I unfortunately belonged to for about a year or two in late high school, that's an attack on their identity.







Sorry Krytrons lol, that wasn’t directed at you personally it’s just the quick reply function doing it’s thing. It’s directed at the op who made the thread. My apologies to you sir. You’re not a bad dude, and I survived by doing my own thing, staying true to myself, working hard, and staying away from people who aren’t genuine good people.

That’s why I don’t get on the Shroomery much anymore. It used to be ok but it’s just not for me anymore. The quality of conversation isn’t there anymore. Again not directed at you specifically 
I don’t fit in here and that’s ok. Everything doesn’t have to be for everybody and we’re free to make our own choices. Later brother.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Citizen X]
    #27099897 - 12/20/20 07:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

It's interesting that you use the phrase "judge not lest ye be judged" in this thread.

Specifically, because it also falls into the category of truisms that are only true when stripped of all meaning. Just like "weed is bad for you".

Thing is, I judge people daily. So do you. Sometimes, that judgement is warranted, like when some dude walks around with a rifle. Personally, I judge the fuck out of someone walking around with a rifle. I judge them as a dangerous individual that should be avoided, because they already have half of the "madman with a gun" equation complete. They already have the gun.

If you aren't willing to put at least a bit of thought into every situation you are put into, then don't judge. Then weed is bad for you. Making no judgement is better than making an uninformed judgement. That's also not a bad thing. For example: I don;t make decisions on the clothing I wear to work. I wear the same thing every day. Not literally, I have 3 pairs of identical work pants, and I have about a dozen "science shirts", which are all slightly different, but are all free t-shirts I got at random science conferences. That's what I wear to work. Work pants and a science shirt. Same hoodie. I'm not willing to expend the few seconds of mental effort it would take to plan out an outfit. So I don't.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

I'm not the most fun person to talk to.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Nobody takes a pothead seriously. (Retrospecive) [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27133565 - 01/07/21 05:57 PM (3 years, 21 days ago)

Like, who cares? Do whatever you want, wear whatever you want. Like I give a fuck. Seriously don’t give two shits about what you do or what you wear, if you smoke or don’t. If you like me or don’t.

I’ve got better shit to deal with. So kindly fuck off and live your life and I’ll leave you to it. Fair enough?


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