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Invisiblemaxmush
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Registered: 06/13/20
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For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"...
    #26907559 - 08/30/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So there has many discussions about sub-varieties and their effects. Most instantly answer a "cube is a cube" they all have the same effects.

I personally have always challenged this idea as my background with medicinal herbs tells me this isn't so. Just  like cannabis, i believe in the "entourage effect" or the symphony of chemicals that comprise a particular species or variety.

I wanted to post a few references to support this idea and open up any discussion on this topic:

https://psychedelicreview.com/the-entourage-effect-in-magic-mushrooms/

https://psychedelicreview.com/scientists-discover-new-compounds-in-magic-mushrooms/

https://psychedelicreview.com/chemical-composition-variability-in-magic-mushrooms/

Would love to hear your thoughts on this.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: maxmush] * 1
    #26907618 - 08/30/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I do think they have slightly different trips to them but I haven’t worked enough with one type to know if it’s the variety or the individual batches themselves.


Like I’ve had bags of maz and Burma from my first 2 shoeboxes that had different and repeatable vibes to them, but I’m not sure if I start over from spores if the next batch of each will have the same effects.

I assume not because I’ll be fruiting different strains of maz and Burma. Clones would be different though.


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Offlinerickomalley238
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
    #26912404 - 09/01/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I can say from the truffles I had in Amsterdam, shrooms are different. The truffles was a very clean, super visual trip. Other mushrooms I've had are more aztec like visuals and more mental cloud. I know this is a poor description but I do believe shrooms are different just like weed.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: rickomalley238] * 1
    #26912519 - 09/01/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Species are definitely different but people debate whether or not all the cubes are.

Pans are way closer to a shorter acid trip than they are to cubes imo.


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LAGM2020


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a] * 2
    #26912538 - 09/01/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Im sure different sets of genetics present potency in different ways
There are 4 active ingredients in psychedelic mushrooms that are discussed. Each set of genetics will have different levels of each.

With cannabis there are 2 main active ingredients we focus on, but there are loads of different terpenes that are expressed differently along different clone lines that can change your high dramatically.

Why not with cubes?


A cube is a cube is simply a generalization to teach about growth conditions


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
    #26912540 - 09/01/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I think cubes are slightly different depending on the grain they're grown on too, but that is strictly my own thought.

I would have to imagine there's some differences but I can only imagine they'd be noticeable at doses above 6g. Like a mild 2.5g trip feels the same to me regardless of the "variety". Again this is speculation because I've grown and eaten 3 varieties. This is where people that have been doing this for 20 years just fucking with cubes come in handy. Like, I've been at this for 6 months, idk wtf i'm talking about.


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Life’s shit, but I’m loving it



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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
    #26912550 - 09/01/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'd put stock in the idea there are palpable differences (among well-domesticated cubensis varieties).  I have a couple isolates I take regularly that are obviously different in effect.  One of my favorites is my Classic x Fiji for example, which has a really satisfying body feel and doesn't seem to precipitate muddled thoughts.  I use it for "macro-micro" dosing or hiking/hunting.  My Malaysians however give me an appreciable mindfuck and very uncomfortable body load, but good visuals at relatively low doses.  I see appreciable differences in other varieties as well. Rustywhyte I enjoy the body buzz from too, and haven't had any racing thoughts/overt feeling of confusion from.  I use these examples because they are ones I've worked with enough to have good uniformity in regards to effect(s), but were clearly distinct (to me) from MS.  For damn sure different species give different effects.  Take a liberty cap dose after a lifetime of eating cubes, or a dose of pans, or gymnopilus, and behold some very obvious qualitative differences.


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Offlinerickomalley238
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Wall.E]
    #26912570 - 09/01/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Myc_Hunt said:
I think cubes are slightly different depending on the grain they're grown on too, but that is strictly my own thought.

I would have to imagine there's some differences but I can only imagine they'd be noticeable at doses above 6g. Like a mild 2.5g trip feels the same to me regardless of the "variety". Again this is speculation because I've grown and eaten 3 varieties. This is where people that have been doing this for 20 years just fucking with cubes come in handy. Like, I've been at this for 6 months, idk wtf i'm talking about.




I had mushrooms last year where 2.5 grams blew my mind nearly, like a very strong trip. 2 grams of them was also very strong. Not sure what strain they were other than the fact that they were cubes, and smaller mushrooms as well.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26912576 - 09/01/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You’ve run them multiple times from ms and they kept the same qualities each time? That’s my main question right now since Ive been jumping from variety to variety and rarely run ms more than once so far.


Years ago some random guy pulled up to me in a parking lot with a hat full of shrooms and gave me a few while babbling about watching meteors that night. I never ate them because they weren’t cubes and I knew nothing about other species at the time. Kinda bummed now cuz I’m almost positive they were gyms, decent size similar to cubes but sort of a rusty orange all over.


--------------------
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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
    #26912631 - 09/01/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
You’ve run them multiple times from ms and they kept the same qualities each time? That’s my main question right now since Ive been jumping from variety to variety and rarely run ms more than once so far.





Some decidedly do (certainly those I've mentioned).  Maybe more do than I've noticed but I'm a variety hopper like you save for the few I run regularly.  I'm not sure I liked gyms when I've tried them.  Both times were really weird and uncomfortable.  Maybe that's relative to bacteria as is suspected with ill effects from other woodlovers, but I would certainly call the trip different from cubes.  Hard to eloquate property but they made me feel tired and uncomfortable.  I mean I tripped but it was overshadowed by uncomfortability (both times).  It's hard to consume enough mush regularly enough in a controlled setting to get a handle on what is objective and what has been imprinted.  That said I stand by my assessment.


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OfflineShroomboofer
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: alaskappalachian] * 1
    #26912703 - 09/01/20 08:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)



Edited by Shroomboofer (09/01/20 08:02 PM)


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OfflineruK
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Shroomboofer]
    #26912743 - 09/01/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What a legend. That's a lot of trips O_o.


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Offlinemushu12
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Shroomboofer]
    #27891922 - 08/05/22 10:25 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

thank you! its so detailed :ooo:


Edited by mushu12 (08/05/22 10:30 PM)


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: maxmush]
    #27891945 - 08/05/22 10:46 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

A cube is a cube comes from multispore inoculation. You're just going to get something totally random starting from spores, except in obvious cases like PE or albino or redspore where an enormous amount of work went into stabilizing the strains so that even in multispore they still expressed the same characteristic uniformly.

There are millions of spores in a syringe, what you're getting from that is a totally random set of genetics that are going to have nothing in common, it's just a roll of the dice. In addition, you're going to end up with many different sets of genetics even in the same mushroom.

A mushroom from multispore inoculation is not a genetically pure organism made up of only one set of genes, it has various different genetics (and can even be thought of as multiple different organisms) all bound together in one. This is why isolating a single strain is so important if you want consistent results.

Imagine you have a million people who are all totally different genetically, and they all have children with each other at random, and then you take a random group of five children who have grown into adults. What traits will those five children have in common? Probably almost none. That's why a cube is a cube. The exception is if you isolate a pure single strain.

In terms of effects, there is only really one active component: psilocin. Psilocybin is a prodrug of psilocin, and baeocystin and norbaeocystin are both inactive and don't occur in large enough quantities to produce any effects to begin with anyway (at least in psilocybin cubensis). Even if these were all active, the fact remains that multispore is going to produce random results, which is why we say a cube is a cube, unless it's from an isolate.

You can go from an isolate through the very difficult process of stabilizing genetics so that they appear even in multispore inoculation, but this is difficult and a topic more suited to advanced mycology, and still has a degree of randomness in the end result if you're still using multispore. It would be especially difficult to stabilize the genetics of different effects (assuming there are any, which I doubt), and to my knowledge no one has ever done it or even tried. So in terms of effects, even if different chemicals are active, a cube is a cube.


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OfflineHeisencube
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: nooneman]
    #27992637 - 10/10/22 07:11 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

How do I select which batches to keep going? Pick the ones that grew the fastest? Pick the ones that have the most aggressive colonization? What are the trade-offs?


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Heisencube] * 2
    #27992673 - 10/10/22 07:28 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I always thought that aphorism was talking mainly about potency.

I also always thought it was a little dumb.

But most people don't understand the difference between plants and fungus, and they think that "strains" of cubensis are the same as strains of cannabis. So I guess some sort of mnemonic to counter questions like "Which one will make me trip balls?" or "Which one will make faces melt?" is somewhat in order.

I do believe that there are subjective differences in experience based on the ratio of SOMEthing in fruits. The tricky part is reliably correlating that with any sort of universal labels. Especially when suggestibility and folklore come into play. Not to mention personal brain chemistry.

I think we're all doomed to live in our own little uncalibrated universes for now. Even my particular method of clone selection is developed and tailor-made to fit in with the rest of my process.


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Beware of advice- even this.


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OfflineBoySage
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #27992868 - 10/10/22 09:03 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I'm quite interested in this topic and apparently many other people are as well, since this is brought up like twice a week here.

I don't actually think one has to be super scientific about this...
Quote:

psilocybinjunkie said:
Cuban:
Very interesting strain with the most awesome, pure party buzz around. They have a very warming body buzz and a tremendous sense of well being that accompanies it. Probably the ultimate party trip since it's just so much fun. Hard to explain what a good time these are, but man they're awesome! Some good visuals can be expected from moderate doses, with some very nice color enrichment. Just really a phenomenal experience and for some reason music sounds more amazing than on any other Cube, by a thousand fold. It's like you are vibing with the music, becoming one with it, insanely euphoric vibes if you have right tunes, just incredible. These are second to Transkei's and at times might nudge them out of the #1 spot. Fast colonizing and fairly fast fruiting, with very good yields = a serious winner!!




Take this for example. I think this report could quite easily be verified by a bunch of people trying this variety and confirming these statements to be true. If the majority of reports result in similar experiences, we can hold those statements to be "true". I for one have only taken B+ so far and had quite a bit of "stoning" effects every time, which is nice, because I like those "inward" experiences, but if someone wants a more party-like trip, that Cuban sounds like pure gold.

Of course there will be differences from person to person, but you wouldn't really dismiss the statement "broccoli is a healthy food" for a couple of people having an allergic reaction, right?

Quote:

psilocybinjunkie said:
Argentina:
One of these worst trips around, very mild potency, low on visuals, and high on mindfuck. There really was just no enjoying these.. Standard colonizers with good yields, but bad potency, & an inferior trip. I'd slap these with an avoid at all costs sticker




This sounds like quite the contrasting experience and considering the author is a highly experienced tripper, I find it hard to just chug those in the "set & setting bucket". I mean you would notice that stark of a difference, after so many trips, right?

I can easily see how general statements could be made about different varieties and I think it would be very cool to have such a thing in this library. Depending on people's preferences, the difference this would make could be huge.

I took this as my motivation to get into agar and all that jazz. Acquired a Transkei print and waiting for my materials to arrive. I'll for sure be cultivating that variety and comparing experiences with psilocybinjunkie's reports. Might get stuck on that one if it's that great, but otherwise planned on trying this with a bunch of different varieties and species eventually and will make sure to report back.

Would be very interesting to have someone create a library of this. Much more so than people explaining every week why such a thing would be stupid to attempt and unreliable in results. I mean let's do it! Why the hell not?


--------------------
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Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit.

Thanks fam!


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OfflineCyonic
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
    #27992931 - 10/10/22 10:07 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I grew a wild strain from Texas once that had no visuals to it at normal doses, but had a very potent euphoric body high.


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Cyonic] * 4
    #27992954 - 10/10/22 10:26 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

There's not even consistency between trips with fruit from the same flush, much less the same grow or variety.

Stop comparing it to weed, it's not a plant. Fungi and plants reproduce in vastly different ways.

Yes, set and setting are by far the most important thing. Your expectations are part of this, if your mind is made up that this variety does x, y and z chances are you'll latch on to those even if they aren't true. Confirmation bias and the placebo effect are very much something that has been proven over and over.

Also, a cube is a cube doesn't mean every cube is the same. It means cubensis is a species with a wide range of potential genetic attributes and those cannot be predicted with any reliabity for any given spore germination. Any cube can mutate like PE or Enigma or what have you at any spore germination and mutants revert all the time.


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] * 4
    #27992974 - 10/10/22 10:45 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Until someone shows they can consistently identify the variety by the trip alone, I.E. blinded experiment, a cube is a cube.


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