|
maxmush
Always learning...

Registered: 06/13/20
Posts: 440
|
For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"...
#26907559 - 08/30/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
So there has many discussions about sub-varieties and their effects. Most instantly answer a "cube is a cube" they all have the same effects.
I personally have always challenged this idea as my background with medicinal herbs tells me this isn't so. Just like cannabis, i believe in the "entourage effect" or the symphony of chemicals that comprise a particular species or variety.
I wanted to post a few references to support this idea and open up any discussion on this topic:
https://psychedelicreview.com/the-entourage-effect-in-magic-mushrooms/
https://psychedelicreview.com/scientists-discover-new-compounds-in-magic-mushrooms/
https://psychedelicreview.com/chemical-composition-variability-in-magic-mushrooms/
Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
-------------------- Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: maxmush] 1
#26907618 - 08/30/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I do think they have slightly different trips to them but I haven’t worked enough with one type to know if it’s the variety or the individual batches themselves.
Like I’ve had bags of maz and Burma from my first 2 shoeboxes that had different and repeatable vibes to them, but I’m not sure if I start over from spores if the next batch of each will have the same effects.
I assume not because I’ll be fruiting different strains of maz and Burma. Clones would be different though.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
rickomalley238
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/20
Posts: 414
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
#26912404 - 09/01/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I can say from the truffles I had in Amsterdam, shrooms are different. The truffles was a very clean, super visual trip. Other mushrooms I've had are more aztec like visuals and more mental cloud. I know this is a poor description but I do believe shrooms are different just like weed.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: rickomalley238] 1
#26912519 - 09/01/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Species are definitely different but people debate whether or not all the cubes are.
Pans are way closer to a shorter acid trip than they are to cubes imo.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
tryptkaloids
Learner



Registered: 02/08/15
Posts: 12,641
Loc: Exact Center
Last seen: 2 days, 9 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a] 2
#26912538 - 09/01/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Im sure different sets of genetics present potency in different ways There are 4 active ingredients in psychedelic mushrooms that are discussed. Each set of genetics will have different levels of each.
With cannabis there are 2 main active ingredients we focus on, but there are loads of different terpenes that are expressed differently along different clone lines that can change your high dramatically.
Why not with cubes?
A cube is a cube is simply a generalization to teach about growth conditions
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
|
Wall.E
Bacteria's Bitch



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
#26912540 - 09/01/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I think cubes are slightly different depending on the grain they're grown on too, but that is strictly my own thought.
I would have to imagine there's some differences but I can only imagine they'd be noticeable at doses above 6g. Like a mild 2.5g trip feels the same to me regardless of the "variety". Again this is speculation because I've grown and eaten 3 varieties. This is where people that have been doing this for 20 years just fucking with cubes come in handy. Like, I've been at this for 6 months, idk wtf i'm talking about.
-------------------- Life’s shit, but I’m loving it
|
alaskappalachian
Entitiologist


Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 1,674
Loc: The 49th Dimension
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
#26912550 - 09/01/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I'd put stock in the idea there are palpable differences (among well-domesticated cubensis varieties). I have a couple isolates I take regularly that are obviously different in effect. One of my favorites is my Classic x Fiji for example, which has a really satisfying body feel and doesn't seem to precipitate muddled thoughts. I use it for "macro-micro" dosing or hiking/hunting. My Malaysians however give me an appreciable mindfuck and very uncomfortable body load, but good visuals at relatively low doses. I see appreciable differences in other varieties as well. Rustywhyte I enjoy the body buzz from too, and haven't had any racing thoughts/overt feeling of confusion from. I use these examples because they are ones I've worked with enough to have good uniformity in regards to effect(s), but were clearly distinct (to me) from MS. For damn sure different species give different effects. Take a liberty cap dose after a lifetime of eating cubes, or a dose of pans, or gymnopilus, and behold some very obvious qualitative differences.
-------------------- "First we build the tools, then they build us." THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities
|
rickomalley238
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/20
Posts: 414
Last seen: 6 months, 19 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Wall.E]
#26912570 - 09/01/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Myc_Hunt said: I think cubes are slightly different depending on the grain they're grown on too, but that is strictly my own thought.
I would have to imagine there's some differences but I can only imagine they'd be noticeable at doses above 6g. Like a mild 2.5g trip feels the same to me regardless of the "variety". Again this is speculation because I've grown and eaten 3 varieties. This is where people that have been doing this for 20 years just fucking with cubes come in handy. Like, I've been at this for 6 months, idk wtf i'm talking about.
I had mushrooms last year where 2.5 grams blew my mind nearly, like a very strong trip. 2 grams of them was also very strong. Not sure what strain they were other than the fact that they were cubes, and smaller mushrooms as well.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: alaskappalachian]
#26912576 - 09/01/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
You’ve run them multiple times from ms and they kept the same qualities each time? That’s my main question right now since Ive been jumping from variety to variety and rarely run ms more than once so far.
Years ago some random guy pulled up to me in a parking lot with a hat full of shrooms and gave me a few while babbling about watching meteors that night. I never ate them because they weren’t cubes and I knew nothing about other species at the time. Kinda bummed now cuz I’m almost positive they were gyms, decent size similar to cubes but sort of a rusty orange all over.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
alaskappalachian
Entitiologist


Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 1,674
Loc: The 49th Dimension
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: A.k.a]
#26912631 - 09/01/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
A.k.a said: You’ve run them multiple times from ms and they kept the same qualities each time? That’s my main question right now since Ive been jumping from variety to variety and rarely run ms more than once so far.
Some decidedly do (certainly those I've mentioned). Maybe more do than I've noticed but I'm a variety hopper like you save for the few I run regularly. I'm not sure I liked gyms when I've tried them. Both times were really weird and uncomfortable. Maybe that's relative to bacteria as is suspected with ill effects from other woodlovers, but I would certainly call the trip different from cubes. Hard to eloquate property but they made me feel tired and uncomfortable. I mean I tripped but it was overshadowed by uncomfortability (both times). It's hard to consume enough mush regularly enough in a controlled setting to get a handle on what is objective and what has been imprinted. That said I stand by my assessment.
-------------------- "First we build the tools, then they build us." THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities
|
Shroomboofer
Stranger


Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 100
Last seen: 5 months, 30 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: alaskappalachian] 1
#26912703 - 09/01/20 08:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Edited by Shroomboofer (09/01/20 08:02 PM)
|
ruK
Stranger


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 83
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Shroomboofer]
#26912743 - 09/01/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
What a legend. That's a lot of trips O_o.
|
mushu12
Stranger

Registered: 08/05/22
Posts: 4
Last seen: 9 months, 12 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Shroomboofer]
#27891922 - 08/05/22 10:25 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
thank you! its so detailed
Edited by mushu12 (08/05/22 10:30 PM)
|
nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,556
Loc: Utah
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: maxmush]
#27891945 - 08/05/22 10:46 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
|
|
A cube is a cube comes from multispore inoculation. You're just going to get something totally random starting from spores, except in obvious cases like PE or albino or redspore where an enormous amount of work went into stabilizing the strains so that even in multispore they still expressed the same characteristic uniformly.
There are millions of spores in a syringe, what you're getting from that is a totally random set of genetics that are going to have nothing in common, it's just a roll of the dice. In addition, you're going to end up with many different sets of genetics even in the same mushroom.
A mushroom from multispore inoculation is not a genetically pure organism made up of only one set of genes, it has various different genetics (and can even be thought of as multiple different organisms) all bound together in one. This is why isolating a single strain is so important if you want consistent results.
Imagine you have a million people who are all totally different genetically, and they all have children with each other at random, and then you take a random group of five children who have grown into adults. What traits will those five children have in common? Probably almost none. That's why a cube is a cube. The exception is if you isolate a pure single strain.
In terms of effects, there is only really one active component: psilocin. Psilocybin is a prodrug of psilocin, and baeocystin and norbaeocystin are both inactive and don't occur in large enough quantities to produce any effects to begin with anyway (at least in psilocybin cubensis). Even if these were all active, the fact remains that multispore is going to produce random results, which is why we say a cube is a cube, unless it's from an isolate.
You can go from an isolate through the very difficult process of stabilizing genetics so that they appear even in multispore inoculation, but this is difficult and a topic more suited to advanced mycology, and still has a degree of randomness in the end result if you're still using multispore. It would be especially difficult to stabilize the genetics of different effects (assuming there are any, which I doubt), and to my knowledge no one has ever done it or even tried. So in terms of effects, even if different chemicals are active, a cube is a cube.
|
Heisencube
Heisencube

Registered: 10/08/22
Posts: 11
Loc: London, UK
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: nooneman]
#27992637 - 10/10/22 07:11 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
How do I select which batches to keep going? Pick the ones that grew the fastest? Pick the ones that have the most aggressive colonization? What are the trade-offs?
-------------------- Happy to be joining you folks from the UK
|
B Traven
Stranger



Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,480
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 2 hours, 11 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Heisencube] 2
#27992673 - 10/10/22 07:28 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I always thought that aphorism was talking mainly about potency.
I also always thought it was a little dumb.
But most people don't understand the difference between plants and fungus, and they think that "strains" of cubensis are the same as strains of cannabis. So I guess some sort of mnemonic to counter questions like "Which one will make me trip balls?" or "Which one will make faces melt?" is somewhat in order.
I do believe that there are subjective differences in experience based on the ratio of SOMEthing in fruits. The tricky part is reliably correlating that with any sort of universal labels. Especially when suggestibility and folklore come into play. Not to mention personal brain chemistry.
I think we're all doomed to live in our own little uncalibrated universes for now. Even my particular method of clone selection is developed and tailor-made to fit in with the rest of my process.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
|
BoySage
Apprentice


Registered: 09/03/22
Posts: 110
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: B Traven] 1
#27992868 - 10/10/22 09:03 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'm quite interested in this topic and apparently many other people are as well, since this is brought up like twice a week here.
I don't actually think one has to be super scientific about this...
Quote:
psilocybinjunkie said: Cuban: Very interesting strain with the most awesome, pure party buzz around. They have a very warming body buzz and a tremendous sense of well being that accompanies it. Probably the ultimate party trip since it's just so much fun. Hard to explain what a good time these are, but man they're awesome! Some good visuals can be expected from moderate doses, with some very nice color enrichment. Just really a phenomenal experience and for some reason music sounds more amazing than on any other Cube, by a thousand fold. It's like you are vibing with the music, becoming one with it, insanely euphoric vibes if you have right tunes, just incredible. These are second to Transkei's and at times might nudge them out of the #1 spot. Fast colonizing and fairly fast fruiting, with very good yields = a serious winner!!
Take this for example. I think this report could quite easily be verified by a bunch of people trying this variety and confirming these statements to be true. If the majority of reports result in similar experiences, we can hold those statements to be "true". I for one have only taken B+ so far and had quite a bit of "stoning" effects every time, which is nice, because I like those "inward" experiences, but if someone wants a more party-like trip, that Cuban sounds like pure gold.
Of course there will be differences from person to person, but you wouldn't really dismiss the statement "broccoli is a healthy food" for a couple of people having an allergic reaction, right?
Quote:
psilocybinjunkie said: Argentina: One of these worst trips around, very mild potency, low on visuals, and high on mindfuck. There really was just no enjoying these.. Standard colonizers with good yields, but bad potency, & an inferior trip. I'd slap these with an avoid at all costs sticker
This sounds like quite the contrasting experience and considering the author is a highly experienced tripper, I find it hard to just chug those in the "set & setting bucket". I mean you would notice that stark of a difference, after so many trips, right?
I can easily see how general statements could be made about different varieties and I think it would be very cool to have such a thing in this library. Depending on people's preferences, the difference this would make could be huge.
I took this as my motivation to get into agar and all that jazz. Acquired a Transkei print and waiting for my materials to arrive. I'll for sure be cultivating that variety and comparing experiences with psilocybinjunkie's reports. Might get stuck on that one if it's that great, but otherwise planned on trying this with a bunch of different varieties and species eventually and will make sure to report back.
Would be very interesting to have someone create a library of this. Much more so than people explaining every week why such a thing would be stupid to attempt and unreliable in results. I mean let's do it! Why the hell not?
-------------------- New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit. Thanks fam!
|
Cyonic
Stranger


Registered: 12/27/20
Posts: 245
Last seen: 11 months, 9 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
#27992931 - 10/10/22 10:07 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I grew a wild strain from Texas once that had no visuals to it at normal doses, but had a very potent euphoric body high.
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: Cyonic] 4
#27992954 - 10/10/22 10:26 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
There's not even consistency between trips with fruit from the same flush, much less the same grow or variety.
Stop comparing it to weed, it's not a plant. Fungi and plants reproduce in vastly different ways.
Yes, set and setting are by far the most important thing. Your expectations are part of this, if your mind is made up that this variety does x, y and z chances are you'll latch on to those even if they aren't true. Confirmation bias and the placebo effect are very much something that has been proven over and over.
Also, a cube is a cube doesn't mean every cube is the same. It means cubensis is a species with a wide range of potential genetic attributes and those cannot be predicted with any reliabity for any given spore germination. Any cube can mutate like PE or Enigma or what have you at any spore germination and mutants revert all the time.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 4
#27992974 - 10/10/22 10:45 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Until someone shows they can consistently identify the variety by the trip alone, I.E. blinded experiment, a cube is a cube.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
cozmyc
gentle modern ape



Registered: 06/20/21
Posts: 2,131
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
#27992979 - 10/10/22 10:49 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Rip James Randi
-------------------- You're conscious population 2 stardust ---------------------- and that's valuable
|
BoySage
Apprentice


Registered: 09/03/22
Posts: 110
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: cozmyc]
#27993051 - 10/11/22 12:50 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I do understand that view, but people have come to know things without the scientific method. The scientific method is there to prove things people already had their suspicions about.
Once again I'd like to mention that an experienced tripper would have a keen sense for set and setting and is therefore unlikely to neglect those factors, when coming up with such a list. You can rule out confirmation bias to an extent in that case.
Placebo and biases are very real, even when it comes to science itself, which is why theories get overthrown and disproven. The initial instinct is always of a philosophical nature. Imagine monkeys looking up at the sky and saying: "Fuck that, no double-blind, placebo controlled study ever proved stars aren't just a hallucination, I'm getting outta here."
We are interested in things first, then we study them, or invent shit, or whatever. I think "cube's a cube" is a sort of limiting statement that hardly serves any purpose in that context and there's no marketing machine going on in this forum that needs to be throttled.
-------------------- New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit. Thanks fam!
|
B Traven
Stranger



Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,480
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 2 hours, 11 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
#27993133 - 10/11/22 04:13 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I think the larger point is that the genetics are too complex to reduce it down to "Cubans are fun party shrooms" or anything like that. Not to mention variation in cultivation techniques.
If I spend any time at all taking clones and working up different cultures from a given "strain," then my version of that "strain" will be different from anyone else's.
If I grow and harvest in a particular way, that may further influence things like potency, "body load," etc.
Delivery method also influences an experience, particularly via speed of onset.
Growing is a science, for better or worse. This isn't people clamoring for perfect clinical trials. It's people relaying their own first-hand experience paired with knowledge of biology.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage] 1
#27993135 - 10/11/22 04:14 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BoySage said: I do understand that view, but people have come to know things without the scientific method. The scientific method is there to prove things people already had their suspicions about.
Which is perfect for this since we're suspicious about it. What do we know without the scientific method btw?
Quote:
BoySage said: Once again I'd like to mention that an experienced tripper would have a keen sense for set and setting and is therefore unlikely to neglect those factors, when coming up with such a list. You can rule out confirmation bias to an extent in that case.
That's a lot of assumptions but not any reason to rule out confirmation bias or placebo effect.
Quote:
BoySage said: Placebo and biases are very real, even when it comes to science itself, which is why theories get overthrown and disproven. The initial instinct is always of a philosophical nature. Imagine monkeys looking up at the sky and saying: "Fuck that, no double-blind, placebo controlled study ever proved stars aren't just a hallucination, I'm getting outta here."
We have indeed proved the stars aren't a hallucination.
Quote:
BoySage said:
We are interested in things first, then we study them, or invent shit, or whatever. I think "cube's a cube" is a sort of limiting statement that hardly serves any purpose in that context and there's no marketing machine going on in this forum that needs to be throttled.
Nothing limiting about it and a perfect candidate for being examined by the scientific method.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
B Traven
Stranger



Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,480
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 2 hours, 11 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage] 4
#27993139 - 10/11/22 04:26 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BoySage said: there's no marketing machine going on in this forum that needs to be throttled.
Not necessarily, no, but there's lots of room for wild rumors and stupid cultivation practices to develop legs and run amok.
We have to deal with shit like people asking why their bag of microwavable rice isn't working out.
A couple months ago, I met someone who started talking about how they heard that after doing acid 3 times, you have brain damage. Also brought up all the old urban legends about Syd Barrett. They thought that the active ingredient in psilocybes was also LSD.
"Which strain is good for visuals" is a milder version of that, but given peoples' tendency to draw false correlations and then defend them to the death, it's an area that's ripe for the development and spread of misinformation. Not "untested" information- straight-up wrong-headed shit that flies in the face of other people's personal experiences.
-------------------- Beware of advice- even this.
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 3
#27993143 - 10/11/22 04:35 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
cozmyc said: Rip James Randi
In the spirit of Mr Randi, I'm offering up my entire spore library to anyone that can
Quote:
SirPsycho said: shows they can consistently identify the variety by the trip alone, I.E. blinded experiment,
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
Edited by SirPsycho (10/11/22 04:42 AM)
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#27993152 - 10/11/22 04:47 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
That's 25+ different active species. That number does not include the multiple varities of cubensis or Pan cyan, which were both only counted once.
Come get it.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
KROM
Local Oaf



Registered: 07/20/19
Posts: 1,005
Last seen: 11 months, 4 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 3
#27993191 - 10/11/22 06:01 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
|
BoySage
Apprentice


Registered: 09/03/22
Posts: 110
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
#27993603 - 10/11/22 11:41 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
This is an interesting discussion and very revealing. We might be dealing with a "differences in personality types"-situation.
As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practices, which I highly agree with. Even with very limited understanding of the craft itself, I can identify what you're trying to get accross in terms of cultivation.
I'm not sure whether we're arguing simantics SirPsycho, but
Quote:
SirPsycho said: We have indeed proved the stars aren't a hallucination.
seems to me to enforce my point. I'll provide a hypothetical scenario to illustrate:
Let's say we take a serious look at those personal accounts and experiences, gather them together and start comparing notes. What we might well find is certain tendencies, which are reproduceable i.e. people finding Cubans to be fun party shrooms after all. At that point scientific analysis and scrutiny can productively enter the conversation, because it actually has something to look at. (Here's where I'm in over my head, because I don't know what exactly it would look for, maybe something we don't know at this point. Possibly some sort of specific synergistic interaction of compounds - don't get hung up on this!)
Point is "cube's a cube" can be just as much of a limiting statement as "doing acid 3 times causes brain damage". It might be intended to help either way, but that doesn't make it more right or wrong, it's always both.
Whatever is believed/accepted to be true today, might be proven wrong tomorrow and in that sense I find it limiting. I believe we should both encourage such efforts and at the same time warning about pitfalls, not either or.
For one person to collect the wealth of experience to being able to identify 25 different varieties by the trip they caused is wayyy out there. But if one person had a database to start from, and maybe try 5-10 of those a couple of times to validate the experience, another does the same with 2-3 overlapping, etc. etc. that might produce something to be taken seriously after a while.
Of course you could still throw the placebo/confirmation bias in there, but at that point you'd have to literally put it everywhere, which I would personally agree with. To quote Alan Watts (probably not perfectly): "The universe has to run away from us, because we keep looking for it."
I simply see no need to extinguish the flame of interest, before it has even started to kindle.
Anyways... I'll start with the fucking Transkei and see what it's all about and if confirmation bias/placebo consistently produce the best trips of my life, I'm quite happy as well
-------------------- New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit. Thanks fam!
|
The Mycologist
Explorer

Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 3,024
Last seen: 29 days, 6 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#27993615 - 10/11/22 11:49 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
The potency varies insanely though. Thats where they differ from shroom to shroom trip to trip.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
#27993646 - 10/11/22 12:09 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BoySage said: As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practice
:
No, you really don't. I never said anything about mainly cultivation practices. I've been challenging the idea that they cause different trips.
Your hypothetical scenario is rife with opportunities for placebos and confirmation bias.
I'm not trying to extinguish any flame of curiosity. I'm challenging anyone and everyone to show me they can reliably distinguish between varities by trip only.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: The Mycologist]
#27993650 - 10/11/22 12:10 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Mycologist said: The potency varies insanely though. Thats where they differ from shroom to shroom trip to trip.
Don't see anyone arguing potency. They are arguing "euphoria" and "body load"
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
cozmyc
gentle modern ape



Registered: 06/20/21
Posts: 2,131
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#27993656 - 10/11/22 12:14 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
cozmyc said: Rip James Randi
In the spirit of Mr Randi, I'm offering up my entire spore library to anyone that can
Quote:
SirPsycho said: shows they can consistently identify the variety by the trip alone, I.E. blinded experiment,
Surely someone can prove their wits 😉
-------------------- You're conscious population 2 stardust ---------------------- and that's valuable
|
cozmyc
gentle modern ape



Registered: 06/20/21
Posts: 2,131
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: cozmyc] 1
#27993658 - 10/11/22 12:17 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'm all down for serious controlled experiments. Sign me up.
-------------------- You're conscious population 2 stardust ---------------------- and that's valuable
|
BoySage
Apprentice


Registered: 09/03/22
Posts: 110
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
#27993671 - 10/11/22 12:27 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
BoySage said: As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practice
:
No, you really don't. I never said anything about mainly cultivation practices. I've been challenging the idea that they cause different trips.
Your hypothetical scenario is rife with opportunities for placebos and confirmation bias.
I'm not trying to extinguish any flame of curiosity. I'm challenging anyone and everyone to show me they can reliably distinguish between varities by trip only.
Obviously trying to adress multiple posters in here. I think you're being overly specific (that was the personality-type statement), in that you require exact identification out of the gate, when I believe narrowing it down to a couple of varieties would be sufficient proof of the differences, because many still share main traits. Such as "judging by the euphoric body high and factor#2 & #3, I think this must be either A or B, maybe C, but definitely not X, Y or Z."
-------------------- New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit. Thanks fam!
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
#27993678 - 10/11/22 12:32 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BoySage said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
BoySage said: As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practice
:
No, you really don't. I never said anything about mainly cultivation practices. I've been challenging the idea that they cause different trips.
Your hypothetical scenario is rife with opportunities for placebos and confirmation bias.
I'm not trying to extinguish any flame of curiosity. I'm challenging anyone and everyone to show me they can reliably distinguish between varities by trip only.
Obviously trying to adress multiple posters in here. I think you're being overly specific (that was the personality-type statement), in that you require exact identification out of the gate, when I believe narrowing it down to a couple of varieties would be sufficient proof of the differences, because many still share main traits. Such as "judging by the euphoric body high and factor#2 & #3, I think this must be either A or B, maybe C, but definitely not X, Y or Z."
No, I don't require exact ID right out of the gate. I just require reliable results and blinded testing.
Take as much time as you need to build your database. When you're ready pick 2 (or however many varities you want) and sample them in a blinded experiment then report your results.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
KROM
Local Oaf



Registered: 07/20/19
Posts: 1,005
Last seen: 11 months, 4 days
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage] 4
#27993805 - 10/11/22 02:00 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BoySage said: Imagine monkeys looking up at the sky and saying: "Fuck that, no double-blind, placebo controlled study ever proved stars aren't just a hallucination, I'm getting outta here."
--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
|
CJD


Registered: 08/10/22
Posts: 378
Loc: The Magic School Bus
Last seen: 3 days, 23 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: maxmush]
#28003102 - 10/17/22 01:17 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary. I'd watch it.
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: CJD] 1
#28003146 - 10/17/22 01:48 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CJD said: I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary. I'd watch it.
"Put up or shut up: why a cube is a cube" a SirPsycho production... From the makers of "I bet I can grow cubes on that"
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
CJD


Registered: 08/10/22
Posts: 378
Loc: The Magic School Bus
Last seen: 3 days, 23 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
#28003409 - 10/17/22 04:51 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
CJD said: I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary. I'd watch it.
"Put up or shut up: why a cube is a cube" a SirPsycho production... From the makers of "I bet I can grow cubes on that"
I'd watch that one too... has it been released?
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: CJD] 2
#28003422 - 10/17/22 05:00 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CJD said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
CJD said: I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary. I'd watch it.
"Put up or shut up: why a cube is a cube" a SirPsycho production... From the makers of "I bet I can grow cubes on that"
I'd watch that one too... has it been released?
Loofah
Pine cones
Book 1
Book 2
Dish towel
More pine cones and kitty litter
Stay tunned for filters from cigarette butts, ramen, a potato and tampons.
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
CJD


Registered: 08/10/22
Posts: 378
Loc: The Magic School Bus
Last seen: 3 days, 23 hours
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 1
#28003871 - 10/17/22 08:33 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
CJD said:
Quote:
SirPsycho said:
Quote:
CJD said: I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary. I'd watch it.
"Put up or shut up: why a cube is a cube" a SirPsycho production... From the makers of "I bet I can grow cubes on that"
I'd watch that one too... has it been released?
Loofah
Pine cones
Book 1
Book 2
Dish towel
More pine cones and kitty litter
Stay tunned for filters from cigarette butts, ramen, a potato and tampons.
Hopefully you're not pushing the envelope like P9 & staying away from bodily fluids with the tampon
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: CJD]
#28004227 - 10/18/22 06:37 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I don't know if you heard but p9 dumped that cause he's tearing down his lab so I'll be peeing in a bottle for science
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
bakedbeings
orbiter of truth


Registered: 09/01/20
Posts: 4,218
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#28004260 - 10/18/22 07:13 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BoySage said: The scientific method is there to prove things people already had their suspicions about.
what an adorable statement. scientific discoveries are often counterintuitive and inconvenient. thats why the method is so valuable
ive given clones of the same fruit to the same person on several occasions and they always come back with different trip reports. so visual! no visuals. so strong! not very strong! so joyful! painfully introspective
the idea that you could do MS grows of different cubes and predict what kind of trip each batch will produce has no logical basis. and the fact that i would be so easy to prove if it were true is also very telling - we arent talking about pyramids on the moon here, it would be a very simple and cheap experiment to run
-------------------- 🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: bakedbeings] 1
#28004295 - 10/18/22 07:43 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bakedbeings said:
Quote:
BoySage said: The scientific method is there to prove things people already had their suspicions about.
what an adorable statement. scientific discoveries are often counterintuitive and inconvenient. thats why the method is so valuable
ive given clones of the same fruit to the same person on several occasions and they always come back with different trip reports. so visual! no visuals. so strong! not very strong! so joyful! painfully introspective
the idea that you could do MS grows of different cubes and predict what kind of trip each batch will produce has no logical basis. and the fact that i would be so easy to prove if it were true is also very telling - we arent talking about pyramids on the moon here, it would be a very simple and cheap experiment to run
What are you, new here? Your anecdotal evidence doesn't count, only theirs
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
DERRAYLD
Constructus


Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9,284
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 7 hours, 42 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] 2
#28004296 - 10/18/22 07:46 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Logic
|
SirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu



Registered: 01/01/20
Posts: 6,901
Loc: Rent free in your head
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: DERRAYLD] 1
#28004343 - 10/18/22 08:17 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints Balance in life is like running on ice.
🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖
    "Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023
|
|