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Mr.GuessWork
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: Asante]
#27419456 - 08/08/21 10:01 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here's where that conversation took us in the other thread.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla
The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: koods]
#27419457 - 08/08/21 10:02 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
paradoxlost said: I hope the improper vaccination policy execution doesn't result in vaccine resultant strains
Vaccine resultant?
Resistance is hard for the virus to aquire because the vaccine aims at the spike protein.
The virus would likely render itself uninfectious if it modified spike so much the vaccine no longer worked. Since spike is how it enters our cells. Spike itself could mutate and still work but also still be targeted by the antibodies.
And in the extremely unlikely event that spike mutates in a way that the antibodies cannot attack and it's still infectious it would be extremely easy to just add a new mRNA piece to the vaccines.
The only vaccination policy that actually makes any sense is the same way we eradicated other diseases. Mandatory and complete vaccination of the entire population
I tried to explain to him that the vast majority of mutations render a virus non functional. Based on the fact that the major variants share many of the same mutations, it is pretty likely that those are some of the only mutations that benefit the virus.
He just doesn’t understand these concepts
i tried to show you how despite this, vaccination research in the past show that vaccines that do not stop transmission to other hosts, either vaccinated or unvaccinated, result in viruses that are more dangerous then virus that evolved alongside unvaccinated populations. You don't seem to understand this concept.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: Asante]
#27419460 - 08/08/21 10:03 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
paradoxlost said: it doesn't mean stupid people aren't amazing, wonderful people. i love stupid people.
We want you to physically suck the dick of the stupid people or its not enough 
How would you define stupid anyway? If you say not getting yourself vasccinated is stupid, theres people way above 100 not getting it and people way under 100 going to great lengths to get their shots, so it isnt about IQ.
So its not about intelligence or about any topic n particular.
I think its a bit arbitrary to categorize people as stupid.
Most people I know who think of people as stupid, appear to use it as a derogatory label to dismiss people off the bat.
stupidity is defined as actions that do not benefit the interests of you or the population around you.
its a purely economical definitely. luckily economics and ecology have very similar dynanmics.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 10:08 AM)
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koods
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost] 1
#27419483 - 08/08/21 10:18 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
i tried to show you how despite this, vaccination research in the past show that vaccines that do not stop transmission to other hosts, either vaccinated or unvaccinated, result in viruses that are more dangerous then virus that evolved alongside unvaccinated populations. You don't seem to understand this concept.
The flu vaccine is a perfect example of a vaccine that doesnt stop transmission in a lot of cases. Many years the vaccines are less than 50% effective at preventing infection. There’s no super flu and flu viruses mutate much faster than covid
You’re wrong
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: koods]
#27419491 - 08/08/21 10:27 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
i tried to show you how despite this, vaccination research in the past show that vaccines that do not stop transmission to other hosts, either vaccinated or unvaccinated, result in viruses that are more dangerous then virus that evolved alongside unvaccinated populations. You don't seem to understand this concept.
The flu vaccine is a perfect example of a vaccine that doesnt stop transmission in a lot of cases. Many years the vaccines are less than 50% effective at preventing infection. There’s no super flu and flu viruses mutate much faster than covid
You’re wrong
you get super flu bugs kinda frequently in animal populations that result in culls to stop spreads.
also it is not me who is wrong. you would be referring to at least the NIH and PSU who both published research indicating this occurs.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 10:30 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419566 - 08/08/21 11:16 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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They found one case in a virus that is totally unrelated to coronaviruses. The fact that they could only find one case where this happens leads one to believe it is not something that happens frequently.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: koods]
#27419643 - 08/08/21 12:21 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well you only need one virus and the point isn't to limit deaths its to ensure the survival of the species
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419660 - 08/08/21 12:33 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419684 - 08/08/21 12:53 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paradoxlost said: Well you only need one virus and the point isn't to limit deaths its to ensure the survival of the species
That is not going to happen. A highly lethal and contagious covid strain would have no chance competing with a not very lethal contagious strain.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: koods] 1
#27419688 - 08/08/21 12:58 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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--------------------
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mushboy
modboy



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Loc: where?
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: bodhisatta]
#27419707 - 08/08/21 01:14 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hah
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,974
Loc: PNW
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: mushboy]
#27419727 - 08/08/21 01:28 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mass evictions and mass foreclosures are starting. The rich and upper middle class are doing fine.
But the broker more loserish people are all getting butt fucked.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
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Loc:
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: budmanman] 1
#27419743 - 08/08/21 01:42 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wasn't it you that was complaining awhile back about all of the lower wage people on unemployment making more than they'd ever made before?
It is pretty fucked up though that the govenment can make restrictions that put people out of work but then not take responsibility for covering their rent and mortgage payments in the mean time. Moratoriums don't really work out well in the long-term for people in heavy debt or with little income.
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budmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: feevers]
#27419756 - 08/08/21 01:53 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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They were, and they were buying really dumb shit with the money, poor people don't know how to management money and they didn't have to pay their rent or mortgage if they didn't want to with the stroke of a keyboard, then it dropped to 300 extra instead of 600, so at that point they were making close to the same as before.
Instead of saving up for the impending consequences of the shut down, they blew it on all kinds of shit, a lot of them on crypto, of which were dumb top buyers.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: budmanman]
#27419761 - 08/08/21 01:55 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
budmanman said: They were, and they were buying really dumb shit with the money, poor people don't know how to management money and they didn't have to pay their rent or mortgage if they didn't want to with the stroke of a keyboard, then it dropped to 300 extra instead of 600, so at that point they were making close to the same as before.
Instead of saving up for the impending consequences of the shut down, they blew it on all kinds of shit, a lot of them on crypto, of which were dumb top buyers.
luckily we have you to tell them how to spend their money.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: Asante]
#27419770 - 08/08/21 01:58 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: The vaccine is firearms instruction. Getting infected is straight up being shot at.
The latest research I read suggested vaccines are much more efficient at targeting the receptor binding domain, essentially where the virus latches on to the ACE2 receptors, whereas natural immunity from infection is more limited to other parts of the spike protein.
This could explain the 50%+ less likelihood of transmission in the vaccinated population. It also likely means a less widespread and robust infection that the body is able to fight off much quicker, which obviously leads to a lower severity if a vaccinated person gets COVID vs someone getting the virus a second time, and less chance for mutations to occur.
It also suggests that the vaccine is more effective against new variants, whereas immunity from infection will be weaker vs future variants. Seems like a pretty good argument for people who've had COVID to get the vaccine as well.
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: feevers]
#27419774 - 08/08/21 02:00 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
Asante said: The vaccine is firearms instruction. Getting infected is straight up being shot at.
The latest research I read suggested vaccines are much more efficient at targeting the receptor binding domain, essentially where the virus latches on to the ACE2 receptors, whereas natural immunity from infection is more limited to other parts of the spike protein.
This could explain the 50%+ less likelihood of transmission in the vaccinated population. It also likely means a less widespread and robust infection that the body is able to fight off much quicker, which obviously leads to a lower severity if a vaccinated person gets COVID vs someone getting the virus a second time, and less chance for mutations to occur.
It also suggests that the vaccine is more effective against new variants, whereas immunity from infection will likely be weaker vs future variants. Seems like a pretty good argument for people who've had COVID to get the vaccine as well.
https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3Dtrue#secsectitle0085
please post your research. This study from July 14th contradicts that claim
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 02:00 PM)
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419776 - 08/08/21 02:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote: However, the CD8+ T cells exhibit a predominant effector memory phenotype early that transitions to those effector memory cells re-expressing CD45RA, maintaining expression of antiviral cytokines and effector functions that have been shown to provide protective immunity against other viral pathogens. We also provide clear evidence that the CD4+ T cells mount a broader antigen-specific response across the structural and accessory gene products, whereas the CD8+ T cells are predominantly nucleocapsid specific and spike-specific responses are substantially lower in frequency.
Quote: Thus, vaccine induction of CD8+ T cells to more conserved antigens such as the nucleocapsid, rather than just to SARS-CoV-2 spike antigens, may add benefit to more rapid containment of infection as SARS-CoV-2 variants overtake the prevailing strains.
but with that being said
Quote: Another interesting finding of this investigation is the remarkably stable antibody responses among the pre-pandemic and COVID-19 patients to the common human coronaviruses that are acquired in children and adults. These data are most consistent with the generation of long-lived plasma cells and refute the current notion that these antibody responses to human coronaviruses are short lived. Moreover, the COVID-19 patients mounted increased IgG antibody responses to SARS-CoV-1, a related pathogen that none likely had experienced previous exposure to. This finding is consistent with the booster response of SARS-CoV-1 neutralizing antibodies that we recently observed following SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination.3 ,24 Taken together, these results may have implications for a broader strategy for vaccines targeting multiple betacoronaviruses.
so the current vaccines aren't a sham, and if you're healthy, getting COVID seems to be similar to getting the vaccine.
but a good summery
Quote: Here, we show that most convalescent COVID-19 patients mount durable antibodies, B cells, and T cells specific for SARS-CoV-2 up to 250 days, and the kinetics of these responses provide an early indication for a favorable course ahead to achieve long-lived immunity. Because the cohort will be followed for 2–3 more years, we can build on these results to define the progression to long-lived immunity against this novel human coronavirus, which can guide rational responses when future outbreaks occur.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,974
Loc: PNW
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419777 - 08/08/21 02:02 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paradoxlost said:
Quote:
budmanman said: They were, and they were buying really dumb shit with the money, poor people don't know how to management money and they didn't have to pay their rent or mortgage if they didn't want to with the stroke of a keyboard, then it dropped to 300 extra instead of 600, so at that point they were making close to the same as before.
Instead of saving up for the impending consequences of the shut down, they blew it on all kinds of shit, a lot of them on crypto, of which were dumb top buyers.
luckily we have you to tell them how to spend their money.
They should have listened but no body does,
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26875468/page/1
An easy 4x or more on this bad boy.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419786 - 08/08/21 02:07 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/13/600/eabi9915
"Antibody responses elicited by natural infection or vaccination against the same target are known to differ. However, the extent to which antibody responses to the SARS-CoV-2 receptor binding domain (RBD) differ between vaccination and infection has not been fully characterized. Here, Greaney et al. demonstrated that neutralizing antibodies elicited by immunization with the Moderna mRNA-1273 vaccine were more focused to the RBD than those elicited by natural infection. However, vaccination-elicited antibodies targeted a broader range of epitopes within the RBD than infection-elicited antibodies. These findings demonstrate that the type of exposure, including different types of vaccines or infection, can influence the antibody response to SARS-CoV-"
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