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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: bodhisatta]
#27419210 - 08/08/21 06:58 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
paradoxlost said: I hope the improper vaccination policy execution doesn't result in vaccine resultant strains
Vaccine resultant?
Resistance is hard for the virus to aquire because the vaccine aims at the spike protein.
The virus would likely render itself uninfectious if it modified spike so much the vaccine no longer worked. Since spike is how it enters our cells. Spike itself could mutate and still work but also still be targeted by the antibodies.
And in the extremely unlikely event that spike mutates in a way that the antibodies cannot attack and it's still infectious it would be extremely easy to just add a new mRNA piece to the vaccines.
The only vaccination policy that actually makes any sense is the same way we eradicated other diseases. Mandatory and complete vaccination of the entire population
yea but if you can't make mandatory and complete vaccination (which yes is not the fault of the powers at be or medical establishement, its the problem with people on the ground. but if you needed to say vaccinate cows, if you knew you couldn't find 100% of them to vaccinate you wouldn't start calling the cows you can't vaccinate antivaxxers, vaccinate the ones you found, and then harrass the ones you can't at every chance you can get. no you accept the reality of your situation), what you do is 100% vaccinate the at risk populations, and maintain lockdown, social distancing, N95 mask distributions, etc.
i love the extremely unlikely phrasing. you say it like you're cynical enough for life.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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Asante
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419218 - 08/08/21 07:02 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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It took like 5 minutes for several pharmaceutical companies to devise a reasonably effective vaccine, all the rest of it wasw implementation.
Its going to take 5 minutes more to devise a vaccine to overcome vaccine resistance, and since our implementation machine is at full steam rolling them out will go much faster.
IN THE MEAN TIME THOUGH the vaccine resistance emerging means that countless vaccinated people were exposed to the virus for one to break through, and that means that countless people benefitted from their increased life expectancy from Vaccine A before they need to conceive vaccine B.
So IF you get vaccine resistance IT SHOWS that many were served by the vaccine.
we keep making em better and better until we can ether exterminate Covid or reduce vaccination to the vaccination program kids go through.
Vaccines are like footwear: using them chews through them so you need to get new ones every now and then but its a lot better than having to go barefoot. ask people in developing nations why they spend a day's pay ($1) on a pair of flipflops.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: Asante]
#27419219 - 08/08/21 07:03 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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what if all these 90% perfect vacciens result in a disease that kills you in 3 minutes.
i asked a broke man how he became poor. he said there are two ways he became poor. slowly, then all at once.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 07:04 AM)
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Asante
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419223 - 08/08/21 07:07 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paradoxlost said: what if all these 90% perfect vacciens result in a disease that kills you in 3 minutes.
It won't but, if it did, it would be a lot more merciful than with a tube up your peehole and a tube up your throat.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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morrowasted
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost] 1
#27419225 - 08/08/21 07:09 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
paradoxlost said: what if all these 90% perfect vacciens result in a disease that kills you in 3 minutes.
What if pee pee caca poo piss, mommy?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost] 1
#27419226 - 08/08/21 07:09 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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You could probably stop worrying about exceptionally stupid whatsboutisms if you just did some research into virology.
So let me understand this fully. We shouldn't vaccinate because you're worried it might lead to a mutant that can kill people in 3 minutes.
That's what you're saying right?
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: bodhisatta]
#27419234 - 08/08/21 07:14 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Look up the history of super bugs in agriculture/herd management and see if we are anything but a herd of animals and should be treated exactly the same. If you have a viral disease going through a wild ruminant population and you try to use vaccines to fight it, not only will you not fight it, you will probalby be the reason why it jumps species or something like that.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
Edited by paradoxlost (08/08/21 07:14 AM)
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419238 - 08/08/21 07:19 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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And i'm not saying we should vaccinate. I'm saying we need to understand there are 2 strategies and 0 half measures:
1. 100% vaccination. this is not the chicken pox vaccine/small pox vaccine. It's not as good. It's good. It's actually fucking clever as shit too. but it would be considered "leaky" considering how contagious COVID is. It wouldn't be considered leaky if it wasn't that contagious, probably.
2. 100% vaccination of at risk populations, isolation/risk management for less then at risk populations- there's dumb people everywhere right. if you vaccinate a dumb person they'll stop wearing masks, go around sick people, at risk people etc. if an at risk person gets vaccinated and then sick, they most likely will have symptoms to not become a vector. if a healthy person, vaccinated, is unsymptomatic they will most likely be a vector for hte next evolution and so forth, etc.
right now we are compromising cause that works in social contracts and we are so far abstracted from reality its insane
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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bodhisatta 
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419240 - 08/08/21 07:20 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Most of them are Bacteria and bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics and then we don't have any new ones to make.
We can always make new mRNA for a mutated virus so it literally cannot become a super bug. It can never mutate away from being susceptible to the fact new antibodies can be made.
Stop comparing apples and oranges.
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anatomality
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419241 - 08/08/21 07:21 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is entirely possible that we create something worse. If the vaccines are rolled out inefficiently of unevenly, the virus will evolve instead of being erased.
Will it happen? Who cares.
I got my vaccines, I choose to live however I choose. Everyone else should do.
Death is the only inevitable.
-------------------- “The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”
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bodhisatta 
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: bodhisatta]
#27419242 - 08/08/21 07:22 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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If bad practices lead to spider mites that are pesticide resistant. We have to come up with entirely new chemicals to kill them. Hence super bugs
If bad practices lead to multiple antibiotic resistant bacteria we have to manufacture new antibiotics that circumvent the bacteria's resistance. Hence super bugs
If covid mutates into a 3 minute killing machine that renders the old vaccine completely ineffective. We just have to sequence it and make a new vaccine in 5 minutes.
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Asante
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419244 - 08/08/21 07:22 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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As my body fails by Sarin in 3 minutes, I'm thankful it wasnt mustard gas in 3 weeks
Morrowasted seen "mustard gas", the people coming in with a cough and a joke and dying a gnarly death by this bug despite the focussed efforts of all the kings horses and all the kings men.
If only Covid was super lethal and killed in 3 minutes, there would have only have been 1 fatality. It would never had become a pandemic, or, what seems likely, globally endemic.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: bodhisatta]
#27419247 - 08/08/21 07:24 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Most of them are Bacteria and bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics and then we don't have any new ones to make.
We can always make new mRNA for a mutated virus so it literally cannot become a super bug. It can never mutate away from being susceptible to the fact new antibodies can be made.
Stop comparing apples and oranges.
yea stop taking that process away from the body and you can always is a wildly optimistic statement.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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bodhisatta 
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419251 - 08/08/21 07:26 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would say explain how it's wildly optimistic but if you had the ability to explain that you would actually be explaining why it's not optimistic it's just reality.
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: Asante]
#27419252 - 08/08/21 07:26 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: As my body fails by Sarin in 3 minutes, I'm thankful it wasnt mustard gas in 3 weeks
Morrowasted seen "mustard gas", the people coming in with a cough and a joke and dying a gnarly death by this bug despite the focussed efforts of all the kings horses and all the kings men.
If only Covid was super lethal and killed in 3 minutes, there would have only have been 1 fatality. It would never had become a pandemic, or, what seems likely, globally endemic.
that is a wildly good point man. that's why covid is so insidious, it requires thinking that seems counter intuitive. but since when has nature needed intuition and logic as a prerequisite for functioning. nature creates intuition and logic.
thats kinds the argument for nukes. nuke them on the first day, instead of after 300 million people died.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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paradoxlost
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: bodhisatta]
#27419254 - 08/08/21 07:29 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I would say explain how it's wildly optimistic but if you had the ability to explain that you would actually be explaining why it's not optimistic it's just reality.
just for some entertainment:
a great book to read is the curse of unintended consequences. Where did MRSA come from and how many preventable diseases came from that? wouldn't it be nice if we just had regular staph to deal with instead?
yes i am saying that if we didn't create medicines we wouldn't have had MRSA. the environmental pressure effect the expression of structure and function in DNA and species.
-------------------- [quote]koods said: Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote] [quote]koods said: Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]
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bodhisatta 
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419261 - 08/08/21 07:32 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I literally just explained to you how mrsa isn't a good argument at all. And that video and mrsa are not new news to me. I just understand how it's not useful as a compassion and you don't 
We fought mrsa with antibiotics... Not vaccines
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OutsideOfMyMind
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: bodhisatta]
#27419262 - 08/08/21 07:32 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
paradoxlost said: I hope the improper vaccination policy execution doesn't result in vaccine resultant strains
Vaccine resultant?
Resistance is hard for the virus to aquire because the vaccine aims at the spike protein.
The virus would likely render itself uninfectious if it modified spike so much the vaccine no longer worked. Since spike is how it enters our cells. Spike itself could mutate and still work but also still be targeted by the antibodies.
And in the extremely unlikely event that spike mutates in a way that the antibodies cannot attack and it's still infectious it would be extremely easy to just add a new mRNA piece to the vaccines.
The only vaccination policy that actually makes any sense is the same way we eradicated other diseases. Mandatory and complete vaccination of the entire population
All previous vaccines were studied for several years before being released to the public.
Plain and simple, it hasn't been long enough IN MY EYES that the covid vaccine has been studied so I don't feel comfortable taking it.
I wear a 3m gas mask when I go to the store so I don't catch covid.
Covid is just the flu and pneumonia rebranded.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: paradoxlost]
#27419265 - 08/08/21 07:34 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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One of the main things that screws us with Covid is that many people are asymptomatoic or barely symptomatic. If it hammered you down like some tropical hemorragic fever, it would self-contain. People would be immobilized before they could spread it and there would be no one whining that "its just a flu" when people bleed out of their eyes, ears and even the skin itself.
Covid is quite a horror show too, but not in the majority of cases and that makes many people g out and spread it.
Ebola doesn't allow for taking a tylenol and cough syrup and going to work.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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bodhisatta 
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Re: COVID-19 aka. SARS-CoV-2 - Main Thread on the Novel Coronavirus Pandemic PART 2 (Delta Wave 2021) [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
#27419270 - 08/08/21 07:35 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can't even articulate the difference between mRNA vaccines and the kind we have used for other diseases. Your utter lack of education and understanding is the reason for your fear and concern.
Covid itself hasn't been studied long term either. But the vaccine is only a tiny part of covid. Again if you're worried about the vaccine you should be terrified of covid because it's going to inject you with the exact same shit
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