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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars
    #26900949 - 08/26/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So, I've had some popcorn jars colonizing for a bit now and I have only shaken a couple of the slower jars to try and sync up all the jars so that they go to 100% at about the same time so I can do one big substrate run and finish all my tubs at the same time.

A few of the jars that I haven't shaken yet have about a tablespoon of water in the bottom of them. The jars I shook early had soaked up the excess and are fine. All jars are wonderfully healthy at about 70% colonization being the lowest.

My question is, I'd of course rather not have that extra water in my sub when I spawn to my tubs. Should I not shake the jars with some extra water in them so that when I go to spawn I can spoon out the spawn and leave the water at the bottom of the jar? Should I shake them and maybe the water will be soaked up by the corn? Will it harm the healthy mycelium if I get it wet with that water? The way I built my jar lids, is they have a 1/4 inch hole in the center with polyfill and a very small hole punched in the lid for syringe inoculation. This hole was covered with micropore tape during the PC. It was punctured for inoculation with the syringe, then covered with more micropore tape in a SAB after inoculation. All jars are contam free and are almost done. Can I put an empty syringe through this hole and suck out the excess water before I spawn to my tubs?

This is my first popcorn run and my first bulk run so I'd like to do all that I can for success. I shook the jars right after PC'ing and they looked like they were perfect. Its only after the time in the jars that the water has started to settle on the bottom. They colonized fast and look absolutely healthy. I am going to take two of them and G2G with some more popcorn, this time trying a small bit of vermiculite in the bottom to help with the moisture and will be spooning the colonized popcorn into the G2G jar so I can leave the water in the bottom of the first jar. But I think I cooked them up to par. I let them drain for about an hour after simmer and then rolled them around in some dry towels to soak up the rest of the water. After PC, I shook them to soak up the water as per the Tek I read and they looked great. All jars were covered with tin foil as I have done for many BRF cakes in the past and were well above the water line in the PC. This is not from over boil.

We're talking about a very small bit of water, maybe a tablespoon - if that, in a few of the jars. What's the best way to take care of this? Thanks!


Edited by TipOfTheCap (08/26/20 04:46 PM)


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26901068 - 08/26/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

pics would greatly help and as far as the water id just dump it out while using the lid to keep the grain from falling out. kinda like u do when u open a can of corn to eat and u drain that nasty ass water out🤢🤢🤢

but pics will really help to see if in fact they truly are healthy jars. i have never used popcorn b4 so im not sure of the hydration of it but it either sounds like ur heavy on ur water or you have a bacterial issue in there causing problems. also if u have large temp swings that can cause a lot of condensation


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: jcm4620]
    #26901069 - 08/26/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

but if its really that small of an amount i wouldnt even sweat it cuz itl b absorbed right away and aint gnna matter a bit


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OfflineGan
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: jcm4620]
    #26901106 - 08/26/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Also, you said you want your tubs to all finish at the same time. I'd recommend staggering them by just a bit unless you have 1 beastly dehydrator or a lot of dehydrators.

That may be your plan already, but I wanted to mention it in case you hadn't thought about it yet. I know I didn't consider it the first time I had a larger amount of tubs going at once. A lot of good shrooms were lost that week


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: jcm4620]
    #26901115 - 08/26/20 06:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)



im running a lot of popcorn jars, and like all grains you have to get the moisture content in the jars right

i often wipe em with a towel


Edited by smalltalk_canceled (08/26/20 06:19 PM)


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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: jcm4620]
    #26901121 - 08/26/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Here's some pictures. The last two are of another jar. The first set are of the jar I'm really looking at as potentially a problem.

The room has swung from 75 to 80 degrees max occasionally.
All the jars even those without issue definitely are having a lot of condensation on the inside of the jar.

Area's that looked like these jars on the bottom have colonized just fine. Some of the corn had turned a little darker which I had read is normal when the corn sits in the jar for a while sometimes.
The area's that look orange/yellow are from me turning the jar and the water getting on the myc. After they sat a bit the first time I turned them a bit, the myc when back to white after the liquid drained off the surface.

In the jar in the last two pictures, the color is not in the water, just on the surface of the corn itself. I'm thinking its probably condensation like you mentioned as they were perfect when they went into the jars and I took great care to follow the tek and drained and towel dried the corn well.

Wonder if this is okay or can be saved. 



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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26901125 - 08/26/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Haha, I didn't even think about dehydrating the product! That is one bit of a problem now that I think about it ha. I was trying to get all the jars to finish at the same time because I don't have that many of them, and I don't want to even bother with pasteurizing sub if its for a few tubs. I read its best not to let a fully colonized jar sit for more than about a week.


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26901557 - 08/27/20 02:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

ya man that looks bacterial to me but im not a popcorn guy. but i know healthy looking cube myc when i see it and thats not it. that looks like that ice cream look that myc often takes on when its heavily bacterial like that and get runny and i think thats what ur seeing. its possible that some if it is water but it aint all water.  would def not use anything that looks like that. im willing to bet it prolly aint smelling to great. can u smell anything other than mushroom myc smell?? does it smell sweet or pungent in any way??


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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: jcm4620]
    #26902987 - 08/27/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Nope, its smelling great. I did my G2G tonight. Some of those jars had a little bit of the same stuff. Smelled great. I spooned everything out and just left the water at the bottom. I'll update after a few days with the new jars to see if they contaminate. I didn't use the really bad jar in the pictures in my earlier posts. Still, if someone wants to chip in and try to identify, I'd still like to know what everyone thinks this is.


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OfflineTstone
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26903006 - 08/27/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Unsure, but you don't know they are clean jars, since you used a syringe. Secondly looks like yogurt.I'm gotta say, those don't look healthy.
Unsure about your spoon technique.

How fast did they colonize?  If that's under 7-10 days, not myc. Just cause it's white, doesn't mean it's myc.


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Edited by Tstone (08/27/20 07:36 PM)


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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: Tstone]
    #26903016 - 08/27/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

They've been in there about three weeks almost four colonizing.


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Offline3SIXTY5
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26903192 - 08/27/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Looks like mycelium in a jar with a bit too much moisture, doesn't look terrible, the real question is did it smell sour? if it was bacterial it would almost definitely smell sour. The grains at the bottom probably would have never colonized with that much moisture in there, you probably could've just scraped off the uncolonized popcorn kernels and used the jar, or do a little sandwich container substrate with it.

I've had grains at the bottom of grain bags sitting in a bit of liquid and they never colonize, but I've just scratched them off the block before spawning with no issues.


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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: 3SIXTY5]
    #26903223 - 08/27/20 09:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I did some G2G tonight with a few other jars that had much less of this in the bottom. Just spooned out the grain and tossed the water. I'll be updating with how those new jars do. I haven't used the bad one in the pictures yet. That one I want to use for spawn, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Probably just spoon that stuff out too I guess. I'm still waiting to see if anyone else identifies it as a contamination. I just don't think it is. I had a serious issue with condensation, and the wet jars took about the same time to colonize as the jars I did at the same time that came out flawless. I'd agree with you that its excess water. And yeah, I don't think they're going to finish colonizing the bottom, they're basically swimming down there haha. But I don't want to risk a tub contamming if it really is bacteria or something else. Doesn't look like bacterial infection like I've seen in other's popcorn jars though. If I don't hear back from someone, I'm going to be doing a few shoeboxes next week or so. So if I lost one or two, its not a terrible thing. That's one of the reasons I chose to do shoeboxes for my first bulk grow. Easy to toss one if it goes bad and I still have a shot at a decent harvest from the rest.


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Offline3SIXTY5
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26903608 - 08/28/20 07:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah if it smells chemically or strong, not like a subtle dirt smell, and the mycelium has stalled out but you don't have a lot of excess water and you can't see a visible contam, I can almost guarantee it's a bacterial contamination. Sorry dude, it sucks, wait a few days to be sure, but youre probably going to have to toss it.

For your first few bulk grows I would suggest sticking to a CVG substrate it's a lot more forgiving than a manure substrate, you can sterilize or pasteurize without issue. Although if it started with your grain spawn you could have a perfectly pasteurized manure substrate and you would still most likely have to toss the bin.

Look up wet spot bacteria, it happens when your grain is too wet, that could explain what's happening with your substrate as well. Getting the correct moisture content in your grain spawn is one of the most difficult learning curves of this hobby in my opinion. Now that I think about it, I'm not super familiar with popcorn, but it looks like they may be a little too hydrated, they look pretty plump in the pictures.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: 3SIXTY5]
    #26903626 - 08/28/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Healthy mycelium will grow through water just fine. That looks like a bacterial or yeast infection and does not look healthy. If you wanted to save the culture you'll want to take a nice colonized piece of grain and put it onto agar and transfer healthy stuff away from contams to new dishes till it's clean.

That jar's fucked. Good luck.


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OfflineGan
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: Nichrome]
    #26904029 - 08/28/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You're saying you don't know if the jar you posted pictures of is contaminated? Just trying to understand.

If that's the jar you want identified, then yeah that one is contaminated. Absolutely zero doubt about that. I wouldn't recommend g2g anything that looks even remotely like that. Also, if you're using a spoon to remove spawn, are you sterilizing it in some way before using it?


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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: Gan]
    #26904473 - 08/28/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yes I am sterilizing the spoon. I used iso alcohol and all procedures were done in my Sab. I’ve had great luck with my sterile method. I didn’t use the questionable jars for my grain to grain, though they did have some extra water, they were fully colonized. I’m still watching the ones in these pictures to learn more about what contamination may look like.


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OfflineGan
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26904560 - 08/28/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So iso will sanitize, not sterilize. That may be one of your vectors for contamination if that's how you're doing it.


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OfflineTipOfTheCap
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: Gan]
    #26904657 - 08/28/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've never done grain to grain either. I am aware of the difference between sterile and sanitary - I misspoke saying "sterilized" the spoon with iso. I remember reading an article from RR that says those people that flame sterilize syringe needles and then wipe the needle with iso are undoing the sterilization of the needle. I get that. I can't exactly flame sterilize my spoon either though. That's got to be the wrong way to do that. If you PC'd the spoon, taking the unsealed spoon out of the PC and bringing it into the SAB (which isn't a sterile box, just a still air chamber) would also allow for contaminates during the transfer into the SAB. Other than putting the spoon into a vacuum packed sealed plastic bag and PCing that, I don't exactly know how you would even get a sterile spoon. I read that simply pouring one jar into another is a bad idea because it can disturb said still air in the SAB and can add to contam potential by possibly touching the two jar lids together and maybe transfering contams that way. Not to mention its almost impossible to get the right amount of spawn into the other jar by trying to pour it. And how do you re-sterilize between jar transfers like you are supposed to do between shooting up jars with a syringe?


Edited by TipOfTheCap (08/28/20 05:28 PM)


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OfflineGan
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Re: Excess Water In my Popcorn Jars [Re: TipOfTheCap]
    #26904688 - 08/28/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've done plenty of g2g transfer by pouring for a few years now without issue in a SAB. I have a flow hood now, so it's significantly easier but pouring is completely fine and the recommended method for g2g. My first few times were definitely sloppy and caused issues. But once you get the hang of it, it's completely fine. Just dont touch the jar lids together, like you mentioned.

Here's an example of the process

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24813567


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