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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator 3
#26903715 - 08/28/20 08:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Have any of y'all seen this? These dudes go online and disguise themselves as underage girls/boys and then lure out would be sex offenders. And then out them to the world. Shit's wild. It's legit too -- I wondered at first if all this was 100% real, did some digging, and yes, it is.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Niffla]
#26903766 - 08/28/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Niffla]
#26903773 - 08/28/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes! Bust those fuckers! I will say that 16yo plus should be fair game because most if not all teens have heard about or had sex, plus the net has made this move faster than ever before. I personally do not want a teenager sexually, but by 16 or more they know what's up usually. 18 seems a little extreme, but I can see why. Is there really that much diff in 17 and 18yo, really? 16 and 18 more so, I can see that. Hell, movies are 17 plus, why not that age?
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26903860 - 08/28/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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16 should not be the age of consent. It’s so easy to manipulate a 16 year old as a fully grown matured adult And in the cases where the partner is also young exceptions are already made. If you are 20-21 and dating a 16 year old I would err towards that’s messed up although I’m sure you can blur the lines there depending on the individual situation.
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
Edited by theRealrollforever (08/28/20 10:20 AM)
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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True, some are more mature than others. I was thinking in the respect of someone closer to 16 but over the age of consent. 15-25 seems to be the most influential ages and the most changing one does. Every single year is/can be vastly different. Those predators that say they've never acted on it are lying, most of them anyway. I bet there are thousands if not millions of teens who sleep with people in their 20's, 30's, 40's plus. That guy just got caught. I despise the pedos personally especially the ones who go after the 12 and under. Happened to me around 6-8yo with the babysitters son and I struggled mentally for years before finally resolving it. I love that those guys are busting those fuckers. More should do that, but you never know who is going to be a crazy fucker.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26903936 - 08/28/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: Yes! Bust those fuckers! I will say that 16yo plus should be fair game because most if not all teens have heard about or had sex, plus the net has made this move faster than ever before. I personally do not want a teenager sexually, but by 16 or more they know what's up usually. 18 seems a little extreme, but I can see why. Is there really that much diff in 17 and 18yo, really? 16 and 18 more so, I can see that. Hell, movies are 17 plus, why not that age?
A lot of places have a rule where an age difference of say 3 years is ok. I think that's reasonable. Don't agree with a blanket thing of 16 being the age limit though. Although I think that is the case in Canada. Except if the adult is in a position of authority over the minor.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: psi]
#26903956 - 08/28/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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16 is iffy, but I bet there are a lot of them doing it and not telling anyone. I personally find it too young, but it would help clear up some of the pedo stuff, maybe. Some 16yo look like they are 12-14yo. Some 18 yo's do. 17yo might be more reasonable actually, why not the rated R movie age? I think rated R movies were 17yo at one time, even porn.
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trees


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9,194
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26903980 - 08/28/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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What are the ethics of lureing these guys out so aggresively? There was a chris hansen one where they got this mentally handicapped guy and probably ruined what little life he had. These pedos need help or something other than to get lured and trapped. Do underage/14 YO kids actually interact with old guys like that online? I wonder how many actual underage kids meet up with an old guys off chat rooms vs how many of these are traps
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said:

this is best image ever
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Enjoywho]
#26904066 - 08/28/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quality post.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26904067 - 08/28/20 12:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: Yes! Bust those fuckers! I will say that 16yo plus should be fair game because most if not all teens have heard about or had sex, plus the net has made this move faster than ever before. I personally do not want a teenager sexually, but by 16 or more they know what's up usually. 18 seems a little extreme, but I can see why. Is there really that much diff in 17 and 18yo, really? 16 and 18 more so, I can see that. Hell, movies are 17 plus, why not that age?
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Enjoywho]
#26904073 - 08/28/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: trees]
#26904229 - 08/28/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
trees said: What are the ethics of lureing these guys out so aggresively? There was a chris hansen one where they got this mentally handicapped guy and probably ruined what little life he had. These pedos need help or something other than to get lured and trapped. Do underage/14 YO kids actually interact with old guys like that online? I wonder how many actual underage kids meet up with an old guys off chat rooms vs how many of these are traps
They wouldn't get trapped if they weren't fucking doing it!
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Enjoywho]
#26904231 - 08/28/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL, you don't know me very well obviously.
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azzbo

Registered: 07/14/15
Posts: 1,311
Loc:
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26904465 - 08/28/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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These pedo hunters are a big thing in England, my friends boyfriend was caught by one of these guys and when the videos went online; mobs turned up to her house, smashed all her windows in and stole everything while she was at home with her 4 kids. She had to relocate for her safety.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex] 1
#26904469 - 08/28/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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When you say that "16yo plus should be fair game", what do you mean exactly? Like for an adult, no matter how old, to have sex with? If so, I have to disagree. If not, maybe you can clarify.
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Yukon Cornelius
Bumble Wrangler



Registered: 09/01/13
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: azzbo] 3
#26904488 - 08/28/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
azzbo said: These pedo hunters are a big thing in England, my friends boyfriend was caught by one of these guys and when the videos went online; mobs turned up to her house, smashed all her windows in and stole everything while she was at home with her 4 kids. She had to relocate for her safety.
See this is why I'm not a fan of mob justice, or one of the reasons.
You could simply post a fabricated text conversation on Facebook and pin it on a random schmuck you don't like. Or send the dogs on a pedo and have the above situation happen where someone totally innocent get's caught in the fray.
-------------------- "I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie
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ONE OZ SLUG
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Registered: 05/22/13
Posts: 17,839
Loc: TX
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex] 2
#26904493 - 08/28/20 03:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The three year difference thing makes the most sense, having a 16 year to be considered legally "fair game" is pretty fucking young, dude.
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,843
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: ONE OZ SLUG] 2
#26904525 - 08/28/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
trees said: What are the ethics of lureing these guys out so aggresively?
I wonder how many of these encounters have gone terribly wrong. I wanna see a "when pedos fight back" compilation.
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viraldrome



Registered: 09/21/18
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26904526 - 08/28/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't trust vigilantes. Why not get the pervs info and pass it on to the police? I don't trust them to get the right guy, or it to do it properly. I support the idea of this but in practice it risks ruining real investigations. And if they say you are a pedo you are, no day in court, that's not fair.
2:24 "I'm going to call the police if you don't talk to me"
You can't coerce people like that. He could confess to anything now and his confession isn't legal.
"She started out saying she was 18." Police don't do that, ever. If you start talking to someone who says they are 18 that means you didn't go out and seek out a minor. These guys are are doing this on plentyoffish, but they try to make the public think they are making fake Facebook profiles and the creeps just roll in, but that totally isn't how they do it. This guy was looking at an adult dating website, I question if there would have been a pervert at all if the vigilantes didn't create one.
I have seen people say they met an 18 year old online, talked to to "her" a while and then she changed her story and said she was underage, and they sought a meeting just to see what the truth was. That is a pretty fucked up MO, to introduce yourself as 18, start chatting, and then say you lied about your age. Chris Hansen never did that shit, though he had legal advice every step of the way. You can't compare Canadian white trash wanna be HA hangarounds with a slick well funded American TV show. These people are morons, and it won't end well. These are the only type of people who can make these kinds of videos, any respectable person with assets would be sued into poverty for slander.
"The Creep Catchers movement was strongly criticized in 2017 after it was revealed that one of its targets was a developmentally delayed and mentally challenged 21-year-old, Jaxson Jacoe. The CBC reported that Jacoe joined a dating site after deciding he was ready for his first girlfriend. A Creep Catcher posed as a 19-year-old, engaging Jacoe in chat. In subsequent conversation, the fictitious female said she was actually 14.[19] Jacoe invited the fictitious girl to see where he worked (a hockey rink, where he worked as a score keeper). There were no reports of sexual content in their chats."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_Catchers
-------------------- Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: 1234go] 1
#26904553 - 08/28/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
1234go said:
Quote:
trees said: What are the ethics of lureing these guys out so aggresively?
I wonder how many of these encounters have gone terribly wrong. I wanna see a "when pedos fight back" compilation.
There was one I saw where the dude (pedo) started to get very angry and I think started as if he was going to go towards the guy recording. But then the guy I guess thought better of it. He was still on the verge of exploding I thought. He got in his car and left.
I tried to find it just now but can't seem to.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Tripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!



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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: viraldrome] 1
#26904564 - 08/28/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That story is terrible. The kid literally has no clue.
-------------------- Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros... A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.

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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26905576 - 08/29/20 07:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: 16 is iffy, but I bet there are a lot of them doing it and not telling anyone. I personally find it too young, but it would help clear up some of the pedo stuff, maybe. Some 16yo look like they are 12-14yo. Some 18 yo's do. 17yo might be more reasonable actually, why not the rated R movie age? I think rated R movies were 17yo at one time, even porn.
The issue is not whether people at X age should be allowed to have sex at all though. It's more that minors whose cognitive abilities are not fully developed are susceptible to manipulation and exploitation by an adult. You can make it legal for people of those ages to have sex with someone of a similar age without making it legal for any adult to have sex with a 16 or 17 year old (e.g. the 3 year rule).
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: psi] 1
#26905644 - 08/29/20 08:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Anybody who seriously thinks the age of consent should be lowered to 16 and “fair game” for adults has been hanging around with a little bit much me thinks.
--------------------
sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Yeah I'd like to think that's not what he meant.
I fooled around a bit with a 19 year old woman when I was 25. Nothing our society considers immoral but it was still like we were on an uneven footing. At the time she didn't have the life experience to see through my bullshit (trying to maintain a persona to keep her interested).
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SonicTitan


Registered: 05/17/16
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: psi] 2
#26905728 - 08/29/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL this video made my day. I just don't see how someone who is a fully grown adult I their late 20s or 30s or 40s or whatever really justify pursuing a child. Teenager, but still a child IMO. What kind of justification could there be? There is like 0 common ground or anything to even peak interest unless you're like this pos in the video.
Even if it's "okay" in the eyes of the law to be able to have sex with someone who is 16 its fucked up because it's taking advantage I'd say. Or some weird power trip. Plus I'm sure teenagers are easily impressionable (I was at those ages) and/or want to act cooler or older than they are in almost every aspect of their lives ( I tried to hang with the older crews when I was in my teens and act like I was more experienced than I was) To me it is a scapegoat for pervs to feel justified in their actions.
-------------------- "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
 
Edited by SonicTitan (08/29/20 09:36 AM)
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,483
Loc: Texas
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: SonicTitan]
#26907316 - 08/30/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here's another one. This 54 year old thought he was about to meet up with a 14 yr old.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
Edited by Niffla (08/30/20 09:18 AM)
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Niffla]
#26910922 - 08/31/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't the majority of these people get off?
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Enjoywho]
#26911328 - 09/01/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: Anybody who seriously thinks the age of consent should be lowered to 16 and “fair game” for adults has been hanging around with a little bit much me thinks.
Yeah, I think I stated it wrong, the 3 year rule is best. I have stated many times I personally DO NOT want or desire any person that young, but it does happen and it will not stop happening unfortunately. I was thinking that maybe if the age of consent is lowered to 17yo (Like to see an R movie) it might cut down on those convictions that totally ruin peoples lives.Quote:
Enjoywho said: Don't the majority of these people get off?

I know what you mean, and yes they seem to get less sentencing than say a guy caught with an ounce of cocaine or even weed. It's pretty fucking strange.
In light of how long we live now it does seem that 18 is a fair age of consent. There are some teenagers 16-17yo and up that are fully aware of what they are doing and have no qualms about fucking a 40 plus year old. There was some 80's porn star that was 16 or 17yo when she did porn and no one knew until a decade later.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: Anybody who seriously thinks the age of consent should be lowered to 16 and “fair game” for adults has been hanging around with a little bit much me thinks.
In Holland the conditional age of consent is 16 if scrutiny of the relationship defines it as nonabusive and nonexploitative, and the real age of consent is 18.
Holland had a bad name in regard that "anything goes" but actually as you see the laws aren't all that bad. If relationships of 16 and 17 year olds fail the scrutiny test, there is still full persecution of the older partner, so in fact the age of consent is 18, with a caveat for slightly younger teens in perfectly fair relationships with somewhat older peers.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Asante]
#26911455 - 09/01/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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This. Although it would NEVER fly here in god fearing usa. They want to corrupt our innocent young virgins/minds with their manipulative ways! They're too young to know any better.
Like I said, I don't want the younger people, I'm married anyway. I think it would cut down on incarcerations of people that don't really deserve it. There are some very manipulative and crafty teens out there who may prey on older people to blackmail them etc...its not always the older one doing all the mind games etc...
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex] 1
#26911541 - 09/01/20 09:38 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Without wanting to defend sex offenders in any way, I'd like to make the point that if a 16 year old has a relationship that involves sexual activity with, boldly stated for emphasis, a 26 year old, it isn't necessarily the case that the adult exploits the minor in devious, manipulative or other evil sick twisted ways. Not every adult is a monster, and not every minor is innocence incarnate.
Its the knee jerk reaction to project every bad trait an adult can have on an adult engaging into such a relationship, because most people from both age groups feel great resistance against such a relationship, but a minority, in both age groups, feels otherwise, and it can be a relationship between two of these where there is no degree of victimhood or victimization happening.
This is what Dutch authorities very thoroughly examine, completely case specific, and if the relationship is deemed to be benevolent and without harm, it is deemed as the right of the 16yo or 17yo to engage in that relationship.
Life is more complicated than most people dicuss it, in terms of race, gender, but also, age. There in some cases is more to it than a hard binary yes or no.
I once heard a story of a Shroomerite who, as a 16yo, actively sought out a relationship with an adult woman and this adult woman gave in to his charm and gave him what he insisted upon, appeared to need in his development and appeared to suffer no ill consequences of. Was she so evil? Should her life be destroyed over this?
As a teen I was utterly disgusted by adults and to be involved with one would have been gross beyond measure. Most teens are like that. "that is, ew, so not done." But some aren't. Some flirt with teachers and other adults around them and mean it. And having been teens, most of us have had peers who were like that, growing up.
Most of us wish it just didnt exist but, for some it does and for them its a reality. Just as there are people who dig younger, there are people who dig older, its a simple variation within the human species.
A very common one. An erotic magazine showcasing women over 40 would be found in the fetish porn section 
Armed with this wisdom the Dutch authorities say: "If you are 16 or 17 you have the right to enter relationships, provided they stand up against law enforcement and psychologist scrutiny to avoid you coming to harm. If you are 18, go have yourself suspended by fish hooks in some strangers basement for all we care."
I think this is an enlightened Dutch policy, just like condoning cannabis, regulating abortion, euthanasia and prostitution sensibly.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Asante] 1
#26911629 - 09/01/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Excellent post! Agreed 100%. Americans are trained to think differently unfortunately. I was after a neighbor who looked about 40's-50's when I was 15yo. I fantasized about it and even went so far as to leave a note in his mailbox asking him to meet outside at a certain time if he wanted to have a sex encounter. Pretty brave for a 15yo in the 80's (or any time really). He did come outside, I stared at him and he at me. He just went back in and didn't wave or anything. I have always been attracted to older men, mainly in the mid 50's and up. That was my point in my posts. Some people thought I meant I liked younger, how so very wrong they were, lol!
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26911654 - 09/01/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That was fucking dangerous in the 80s Tyrannicalrex, a good thing your neightbor was decent enough to not ruin your life with the fact that you were gay and made a pass at him. Depending on your parents, that could have gotten you kicked out of your house by your folks.
Was this before you came out?
I waited with my coming out till I was 18 so that, had I gotten kicked out, I'd be a legal adult who could live on his own. I knew I was gay since I was wee little. Always felt different and well, my twanger only twanged towards boys, not girls. You just know.
I ran into 3 pedophiles as a kid (cute kid ), one molested me when I was 8 and messed me up for life, one approached my friends and me while we were having an adventure in a bush and that was a fairly innocent thing, he wanted to see not touch from afar (no doubt fapped) none of us was traumatized by, just weirded out by - and in the third case my mom got a call from an anonymous adult associated with my upbringing who asked her permission to make a move on me. She said basically fuck no, obviously, then told me what happened and I was like "Mom wtf! Can I make my own decisions?" and she was like "fuck no you can't." which probably was for the best 
I have thought about that latter situation several times while high, in meditation, and I am fairly sure it was one particular pastor of my local catholic church, all factors being as they are. (stereotypical, I know)
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
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Re: The YouTube version of To Catch a Predator [Re: Asante]
#26911704 - 09/01/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mom and older (3 years) brother in the house at that time. Grew up fatherless mostly. Mom would never have believed him, lol! She sort of sheltered us as much as she could, which wasn't much since she worked 3 jobs. I asked her if she would hate me for being gay when I was 17- or 19yo, she said no and I never brought it up again. The feelings were VERY strong and I was confused about it being a victim of molestation and I struggled for many years with it. I finally read enough psych books to know it was inevitable with me. I never acted on it until I was 25-26yo. I got molested too when I was around 6-8yo by the babysitters son and he was about 15 or so. I have posted many times my times when I was growing up. Let's say it was less than idyllic. I like to say eclectic.
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