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Offlinekoods
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods]
    #26902641 - 08/27/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

No, it was simply because the first shot missed I assumed it was a warning shot. I doubt Kyle would have missed at that range, that's all.





Lol as if a warning shot is not aggressive. Simply raising your gun is aggressive.

You know nothing about this guy and somehow you’ve decided he has great aim? I heard upwards of 40 shots during the entire episode and he hit three people. Hell, I’m certainly no expert but the first guy got shot in the head, which seems like a stupid place to aim if you’re trying to defend yourself. Pretty sure you’re supposed to aim for the chest if your goal is to stop an attacker. Idk maybe he was tying to shoot the plastic bag out of the air because it looked like a Molotov cocktail :rolleyes:


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods] * 3
    #26902643 - 08/27/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I don't see him running towards anyone in the first few seconds?


He runs past a group and is being chased.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods]
    #26902648 - 08/27/20 04:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Hell, I’m certainly no expert but the first guy got shot in the head, which seems like a stupid place to aim if you’re trying to defend yourself. Pretty sure you’re supposed to aim for the chest if your goal is to stop an attacker. Idk maybe he was tying to shoot the plastic bag out of the air because it looked like a Molotov cocktail :rolleyes:





I think the headshot will make it pretty hard to argue self defense:

Quote:



939.48  Self-defense and defense of others.
939.48(1)(1)  A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.




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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods]
    #26902649 - 08/27/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Did you even watch the video you posted? The first few seconds shows Kyle literally running from outside of frame TOWARDS the victim at full speed with his gun in both his hands.




It looks to me like Rosenbaum also comes from off camera, following a short distance behind Rittenhouse.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: psi]
    #26902684 - 08/27/20 04:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, but as illuminati points out, someone running at you still wouldn't justify lethal force in self-defense. That, together with the fact he was not legally allowed to be open carrying and an earlier video where he states an intent to protect property and run towards harm is going to make me very surprised if he can successfully argue self-defence - but I also wouldn't hold my breathe for the US justice system.

Quote:

So people are getting injured, and our job is to protect this business; and part of my job is to also help people. If there is somebody hurt, I’m running into harm’s way. That’s why I have my rifle -- because I can protect myself, obviously. But I also have my med kit.



news source





Personally, I think the kid is a victim of right-wing radicalization and it all seemed like a game until he killed someone - then it got very real very quickly. He was a kid convinced the police are superheroes and that protecting American businesses from Antifa™ was a patriotic duty - and now two people are dead and this kids life is probably at a dead end too. All to protect a fucking gas station from people rioting in the face of police violence and injustice.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: Herbologist]
    #26902686 - 08/27/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

There’s another video that starts earlier where Kyle is standing around further up the street with his buddies then he starts running towards the area where the shooting occurs. He wasn’t being chased. He was running because he heard the guy breaking windows. Only after he starts running does someone start chasing him.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods]
    #26902693 - 08/27/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You had claimed that the OP's video in particular showed Rittenhouse running towards Rosenbaum though. What other video?


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods] * 1
    #26902697 - 08/27/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Regardless of the sequence of events, you can’t drive 30 miles to the scene of riots where NOBODY is supposed to be on the streets, them claim self defense when you shoot someone. It’s fucking absurd. He wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place. Every single cop that encouraged them despite the curfew needs to be fired and charged as well.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: psi]
    #26902700 - 08/27/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
You had claimed that the OP's video in particular showed Rittenhouse running towards Rosenbaum though. What other video?



I’ve been looking for it. I posted it in another thread somewhere. I’ll find it later I gotta now the lawn


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Offlineilluminati
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods]
    #26902702 - 08/27/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Regardless of the sequence of events, you can’t drive 30 miles to the scene of riots where NOBODY is supposed to be on the streets, them claim self defense when you shoot someone. It’s fucking absurd. He wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place. Every single cop that encouraged them despite the curfew needs to be fired and charged as well.





While illegally carrying a firearm.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods] * 1
    #26902733 - 08/27/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

psi said:
You had claimed that the OP's video in particular showed Rittenhouse running towards Rosenbaum though. What other video?



I’ve been looking for it. I posted it in another thread somewhere. I’ll find it later I gotta now the lawn




Meh maybe you’re right he was being chased. Like I said though you can’t claim self defense when you’re illegally participating in a riot.

I cannot fathom why these militia tools - a gang of thugs - were not immediately arrested when they showed up to a riot in a city under curfew.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods]
    #26902739 - 08/27/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It seems the cops saw them as being on the same team they are.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: psi]
    #26902757 - 08/27/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The capricious enforcement of laws and unequal treatment is pretty much the essence of the problem.

I watched the video of the guy who was shot in the head. I don’t think the bullet entered his brain. There was very little blood and he was conscious for a while. I think it was a grazing shot but there’s so much energy in one of those rounds that it was essentially a fatal concussion. More like being hit with a baseball bat. Based on what happened to that guy’s arm, if that bullet had penetrated his skull he would have been dead instantly and the volume of blood that surrounds the brain would have poured out onto the concrete.

These rounds fired from long guns travel fast enough that they cause a supersonic shock wave in tissue. Most bullets don’t go faster than the speed of sound of flesh which is significantly faster than  what it is in air. This shockwave causes severe damage quite a distance from the path of a bullet and why almost all ar-15 wounds to the torso are fatal even if they don’t hit a vital organ directly.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (08/27/20 05:21 PM)


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: psi] * 1
    #26902790 - 08/27/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

On a closer look, I think it was 911 that got that recorded call. You can hear one of the people treating the shot person tell the shooter to call 911 and then he calls a number and says "I just killed somebody". If that really was a scared kid in the phone with 911, I'm sure there is more said on that recorded call.


And then looking at the second instance - because I'm pretty sure the two shootings are separate events, with one theoretically being justified and the other not - I don't think this would be justified either. One person pretty clearly kicks him in the head once the shooter trips, but every other person who goes near him (including the second person he killed) only ever grab for his rifle. You can also hear people shouting "Why'd you shoot him?". Those people were justified in attempting to disarm someone who had just been seen shooting another person. I don't think the shooter would be justified in using self-defence (especially lethal force) against these people - but instead he appears to shoot indiscriminately.

Relevant Wisconsin law:
Quote:

939.48  Self-defense and defense of others.
(2) Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows:
939.48(2)(a)
(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.
(b) The privilege lost by provocation may be regained if the actor in good faith withdraws from the fight and gives adequate notice thereof to his or her assailant.
(c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.

(3) The privilege of self-defense extends not only to the intentional infliction of harm upon a real or apparent wrongdoer, but also to the unintended infliction of harm upon a 3rd person, except that if the unintended infliction of harm amounts to the crime of first-degree or 2nd-degree reckless homicide, homicide by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, explosives or fire, first-degree or 2nd-degree reckless injury or injury by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, explosives or fire, the actor is liable for whichever one of those crimes is committed.



https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/48




It could even be argued that provocation applies to the first shooting too; if the shooters conduct of open carrying is considered to be both unlawful and likely to provoke others to attack,


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26902805 - 08/27/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:laugh2:



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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: mycosis]
    #26902835 - 08/27/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Just so everyone knows theres more to the footage than him running away from an angry mob. I dont know why but I havnt been able to find the first part of this altercation (you could hear 4 or 5 rounds go off but not see the altercation) I saw it myself around 4am yesterday and havnt  been able to find the rest since.

He had been protecting a family friends car lot who rioters were trying to destroy. Apparently, the beginning was the head shot victim charging him which you could only hear the gunshots in the first video then he ran from the mob chasing him down. The chest shot victim had knocked him over with a skateboard and the Arm shot victim was holding a pistol. I assume he was the one who had taken a shot towards him although Im not positive.

Yall have seen the video but not the beginning of it. My friend has high def photos of him getting kicked in the head and being hit with a skateboard so🤷🏼‍♂️.. im not sure the first one was self defense or not but the second two, in my opinion, were.. at least from the pics and footage Ive seen..

Now wether or not thats any legal base to stand on since he was a minor with an AR 15 and that makes it a misdemeanor in WI. Also he is an Illinois resident in posetion of an unregistered firearm since hes not legally old enough to own it so theres that too..

At the same time in my opinion once again if they try to stick him with possession of a gun as a minor then they should have to treat the rest of the case as he is a minor and not tri him as an adult. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Kinda catch 22 there..

Im sure more footage will be eventually leaked..

Only time will tell..


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26902845 - 08/27/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'd rather have our own thread for this now that I have compiled all the evidence to make a case on behalf of Kyle. I wasn't sure before, but now I'm pretty convinced.

First, the most important video of the hour. As I said in the larger thread, THE FIRST SHOOTING was going to make all the difference. Well, now we have the footage. I'm going to post the best one cuz it shows two different angles in real time.



So to recap everything we know about what happened:

-Kyle is being chased by a guy who pretty clearly wants to cause bodily harm to him. (Why is he being chased in the first place is a good question.)

-He gets an object thrown at him by this guy chasing him that misses.

-One shot goes off at the 11 second mark. (It is likely someone else shot first and the first shot wasn't Kyle's. Kyle was still running and had his back turned when the first shot came out.)

-This guy chasing Kyle guy shouts, "fuck you!" and charges Kyle after the first shot goes off. Kyle then turns and shoots several times, this time hitting the aggressor, then backs off. (It's possible he heard the first shot and it scared him, as it didn't come from his gun.)

-Kyle runs back to confirm that he indeed shot someone and perhaps where they were shot and he then calls someone to inform them of the fact (not hiding his actions), and runs toward the police.

-He trips along the way and a mob descends on him. He fires his gun once again to protect his life from these people. One of the individuals who descended on him, the one that lost a chunk of his arm, was also holding a gun when he rushed Kyle.

-Kyle gets up and runs directly to the cops with his hands in the air.

I see no murderer here. I see a man in self-defense. All the footage reveals it.

(We can argue he is still a criminal for being underage and crossing the border with a firearm he should not have had, however.)

EDIT: I also admit I have a hard time having sympathy for morons like the first guy that got shot. Why the fuck are you chasing a boy with a gun in the first place? Do you have a death wish? (Probably.)

Best comment from the video: The gunshot at 0:11 does not sound like the AR15, it sounds identical to the handgun shots at 0:17 seconds, which means someone fired a handgun first.


My verdict relating to murder/homicide: Not Guilty.




Kyle is just a patriot. You dont become a hero just for self defense.  I feel bad their stupidity got them killed and an under 18 kid in jail for who knows how long.  I feel bad for Kyle.  Did what any sensible man would do and now is being demonized by the sick media.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: meltdowner]
    #26902907 - 08/27/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

A sensible man doesn’t go to a riot with a loaded weapon. Jesus Christ doesn’t anyone have any common sense?

Anyways his life is over. The homicide charges are a mandatory life sentence. Based on what I’ve seen, he was a dead ender to begin with - wanted to be a cop. The fact that the city was under curfew and he drove there from out of state legally precludes him from arguing self defense. He won’t be allowed to make it. I’d like to see his mother sued for allowing her minor child to have a gun. There have to be consequences for this kind of recklessness. Somebody has to pay for the damage he has caused. That dudes arm isn’t gonna be cheap. Sue the leaders of the militia that enticed a minor to participate in a riot and sue Alex Jones for promoting it.

Kyle Rittenhouse charged. 
1)1st-Degree Reckless Homicide
2)1st-Degree Recklessly Endangering Safety.
3)1st-Degree Intentional Homicide
4) Attempt 1st-Degree Intentional Homicide
5)1st-Degree Recklessly Endangering Safety
6) Possession Dangerous Weapon (Misd.)


Edited by koods (08/27/20 06:56 PM)


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: koods] * 3
    #26902915 - 08/27/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

A sensible man does go to help his friends and family from rioters.

Everything you said after is pure koods nonsense, as usual.  Kyle will see freedon as will the cops in the george floyd case. 

The media is lykng to you, riling you up intentionally, instilling hatred.  Dont let them.


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Re: Kyle Rittenhouse: guilty or not guilty? [Re: meltdowner]
    #26902926 - 08/27/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
A sensible man does go to help his friends and family from rioters.

Everything you said after is pure koods nonsense, as usual.  Kyle will see freedon as will the cops in the george floyd case. 

The media is lykng to you, riling you up intentionally, instilling hatred.  Dont let them.




He had no legal right to be on the streets of Kenosha. The city was under curfew. He could have been in his friends house, and defended it legally, but he was engaged in a crime by being on the street. He can’t argue self defense


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (08/27/20 07:07 PM)


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