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Invisiblemaxmush
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Registered: 06/13/20
Posts: 440
Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all?
    #26902619 - 08/27/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

So like many of us, I have dealing with about 10-15% contam issues. Yes 99% chance its the grain spawn, but i would like to rule out the substrate prep.

Mainly cobweb is the issue, but the trich does hit once in a while.

I was wondering if partial or improper pasteurization could be the issue. The amount of sub being prepared cannot support bucket tek and we have been using a scaled version in 100l heavy duty tubs. I dont think its getting the proper treatment as it is much harder to mix that much up carefully with hot water and keep to temp for 90min. I am assuming its not getting properly pasteurized. We will be trying the bulk sub prep tek by, wait for it...Willy Myco. I do think this tek is viable.

Thoughts or tips? Maybe try cold water and pH with lime?

Thanks!


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: maxmush]
    #26903458 - 08/28/20 04:05 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

What was the pasteurization temps?
If you were above 170°F for a while you get partially sterilization,
that`s like unpasteurized substrate.


                :cookiemonster:


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OfflineMH5109
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: Goatrider] * 1
    #26903489 - 08/28/20 05:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

What are you pasturizing. 160-170 for 90 min is the proper temperature/time. Bucket tek doesn't pasteurize it just hydrates sub with hot water. If you are going to pasturize sub you really need to have a controlled temp for a controlled time. Dumping hot water into a bucket of sub will not achieve your goal of pasteurization, and yes over cooking sub will result in killing beneficial microbes resulting in higher contamination rates.


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: MH5109]
    #26903493 - 08/28/20 05:11 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Oh yeah i misread.
You didn't reach the desired temp over time.


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InvisibleBph
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26903560 - 08/28/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Whats your sub? If its coir only its def not the sub. You can use coir thats just been hydrated with tap water. You got some poo in there? Then you need to actually pasturize it not just bucket tek it.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Registered: 06/13/20
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: Bph]
    #26903844 - 08/28/20 10:09 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Been using CVG. I understand the standard pasteurization time and length is 160 over 90min. We are not reaching that at all, more like hot water in an insulated tub for 90min. I am wondering if this is actually causing the issues? Blooming molds etc?

I have a hard time believing the contams are only coming from the grain spawn, but maybe im just stubborn lol.

We carefully assess each and every bag but perhaps the cobweb and trich are still eluding us.

Perhaps some tips on how to spot these before spawning to bulk?

Thanks a bunch guys. We really would like to get our contam rate down from 15%.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: maxmush]
    #26903861 - 08/28/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

So then there's no pasteurization needed.
Perhaps you sealed up your tubs for stall air?
That's prefered by imperfect fungi.
Next time test your jars with a shake after full colonization,
if they don't recover within 2 days they may be bacterial.
And always provide some air from the start,
then you shouldn't have an issue.


                :cookiemonster:


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26903957 - 08/28/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks Goatrider.

Yes FAE was definitely an issue with the infected tubs. We no longer seal up at the start - lesson(s) learned.

We use 5.5lb bags and we do shake up and they recover in 3-4 days.

Praying to the Shroom Gods for better results next round :smile: I think we are finally dialing it in.


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: maxmush]
    #26903969 - 08/28/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, just dial in to fruiting conditions from the start,
next time it will work  :thumbup:


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Registered: 06/13/20
Posts: 440
Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: Goatrider]
    #26904921 - 08/28/20 08:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ya thanks. Tyvek on the FAE holes was too constrictive. Switching to micropore. I really think (hope) this will help.


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: maxmush]
    #26905288 - 08/28/20 11:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I recommend Pasty`s and Bod`s.

Both are very easy to handle and my absolute favourites in monotubs.
Just a very little tweaking needed due to your environment.
No polyfill, and perhaps even no micropore needed :thumbup:


                      :cookiemonster:


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OfflineMH5109
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: maxmush]
    #26905322 - 08/29/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

maxmush said:
Been using CVG. I understand the standard pasteurization time and length is 160 over 90min. We are not reaching that at all, more like hot water in an insulated tub for 90min. I am wondering if this is actually causing the issues? Blooming molds etc?

I have a hard time believing the contams are only coming from the grain spawn, but maybe im just stubborn lol.

We carefully assess each and every bag but perhaps the cobweb and trich are still eluding us.

Perhaps some tips on how to spot these before spawning to bulk?

Thanks a bunch guys. We really would like to get our contam rate down from 15%.




There's a trick to see if its your spawn or if its your cvg. Just leave some of the cvg in the bucket and check it about the same time you are getting mold in your tubs, if the bucket is clean then its for sure your spawn.


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InvisibleBph
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Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: maxmush]
    #26905483 - 08/29/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

maxmush said:
Been using CVG. I understand the standard pasteurization time and length is 160 over 90min. We are not reaching that at all, more like hot water in an insulated tub for 90min. I am wondering if this is actually causing the issues? Blooming molds etc?

I have a hard time believing the contams are only coming from the grain spawn, but maybe im just stubborn lol.

We carefully assess each and every bag but perhaps the cobweb and trich are still eluding us.

Perhaps some tips on how to spot these before spawning to bulk?

Thanks a bunch guys. We really would like to get our contam rate down from 15%.




Honestly you cant see that shit. Ive been at this for a couple years now and dont pretend to know what contams look like on grain. Sometimes its just weaved into the culture and you cant get it out. Are you having the same contam in all your all your bad tubs? Dose it show up in one spot and grow out or multiple spots at the same time? CVG. Id bet money its the spawn. But id also recomebd using straight coir. Unless verm is cheaper than coir for you its a waste of money. And I
I only use gypsum to finish sheetrock. You can grow more mush than will fit in your tub with coir and grains.


Edited by Bph (08/29/20 05:56 AM)


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Registered: 06/13/20
Posts: 440
Re: Can improper/partial pasturization be worse than none at all? [Re: Bph]
    #26905882 - 08/29/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ya i guess contam is the name of the game here. Yous guys a very likely correct, its hidden in the grain spawn. Damn.

Coir and verm are the same price for me here. I dont mind mixing it up but perhaps i will try straight coir next time. The gypsum is cheap enough and i find it helps hold to sub together a bit better.

I really appreciate the input guys, you know how frustrating this can get especially when you feel you are doing everything "right" and then you loose a bunch of tubs.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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