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Offlinecmz.neu
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My hypothesis on the senescence debate and the reason for conflicting arguments
    #26901786 - 08/27/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I know this subject has been beaten to death and i may be wrong, i'm not a mycologist, i'm a hobbyist in growing gourmet mushrooms,thought i do think i have done my do diligence on the subject of mushroom senescence, regrettably i haven't read all the post about it because i do still have some semblance of a life but i would like to share my hypothesis on why the "is senescence real argument" is so divided, so here it goes...
I think senescence is different for psychedelics and gourmet mushrooms(at least most of them) and this is at the root of the divide in opinions. P.cubensis will senesce while gourmet mushrooms like P.ostreatus won't. Now this makes sense and i will lightly explain why , most of my reasoning i got from this paper that i mostly read (https://edepot.wur.nl/41736), now i'm not a scientist and i may be horribly wrong and would like other opinions if this could be the case and get to the bottom of this.

Psilocybe cubensis is a Coprophilous fungi that naturally grow in dunn, which is limited non continuous food source so there is little benefit for it to expand forever so it has evolved to use all it's energy to expand a certain amount, make spores and die, because of this there is no selective pressure for it to expand indefinitely, a strain that lives 10 years compared to ones that lives a few months will have have no advantage since it's food source would normally be long gone before that time and in fact would do worse as it has to expend more energy in the upkeep and repair of its dna to maintain its potential longevity.

Potentially(because it's impossible to know if something can live forever) non scenecent organisms like the famous honey mushroom(Armillaria ostoyae) of which some organisms are said to be thousands of years old do have an advantage as they can continuously grow through a forest by the roots from one food source to another and exponentially increase their progeny the more they monopolise a resource and thus a long lived strain would be naturally selected for, because of these benefits over other shorter lived strains.

Now for P.ostreatus or pleurotus in general i'm not really sure if their food source could be distributed close enough for selection to favor long lived mycelia, maybe one big dead tree would be enough material for the mycelium to opt for the switch from senescent to non senescent, maybe it could grow in other food sources like leaf litter which would be practically infinite in a forest and travel to other dead wood sources, in my experience i have dones g2g for more than a year of one initial spawn bag and haven't noticed any loss of vigor, then again i have not run a proper experiments but some trains i have cultivated from spores don't seems to grow significantly faster or slower that my old strain.

So what is your opinion, could it be that the senescence argument is so divided because people are talking about their experiences with different species and thus some do experience it and others don't.
Do you think senescence is mostly real in...
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Offlinecmz.neu
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Re: My hypothesis on the senescence debate and the reason for conflicting arguments [Re: cmz.neu]
    #26902236 - 08/27/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)
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That url might not work but what i read was called "on the ecology and evolution of fungal senescence"
Maybe this one works
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/797b/76847117a151eac7f57d43a9b96b0a3b9cfd.pdf?_ga=2.93689432.413645794.1598551264-1724452120.1598551264


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: My hypothesis on the senescence debate and the reason for conflicting arguments [Re: cmz.neu]
    #26907231 - 08/30/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Button mushrooms like dung too. There's 30+ year old cultures still floating around for commercial use.
Senescence in the online mushroom community seems to have to do with being able to actually keep and store a culture without ruining it. When it no longer works people blame senescence.


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Re: My hypothesis on the senescence debate and the reason for conflicting arguments [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26908914 - 08/30/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

My guess is it does happen in home mycology. Perhaps even moreso than in commercial growing because lack of use of slants and overworking cultures without backing them up


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Offlinecmz.neu
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Re: My hypothesis on the senescence debate and the reason for conflicting arguments [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26912910 - 09/01/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe psychedelics are more specialized for manure, but yeah i don't think button mushrooms senesce though i haven't read a lot about them.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: My hypothesis on the senescence debate and the reason for conflicting arguments [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26918635 - 09/05/20 04:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Senescence in the online mushroom community seems to have to do with being able to actually keep and store a culture without ruining it. When it no longer works people blame senescence.




Agreed.  I've heard people start blaming senescence when they can't get a culture to reach the edge of a petri.


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