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OfflineWoolyMarmot
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Still-air box specific question
    #26901284 - 08/26/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

my still-air box doesn't have a nicely flat surface lid to put my jars down.If I don't use the lid there will be a small air-gap(about 1cm wide on both sides) due to the still-air box being wider than my work-station table. Would this air gap create any issues?


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: WoolyMarmot]
    #26901322 - 08/26/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

If theres a gap on each side air will be allowed to enter and exit the box. More openings in the box are more pathways for contamination. Certain movements could pull air into the box and it would no longer be a still air box.


Edited by Doctor Mario (08/26/20 09:15 PM)


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OfflineWoolyMarmot
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #26901411 - 08/26/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Doctor Mario said:
If theres a gap on each side air will be allowed to enter and exit the box. More openings in the box are more pathways for contamination. Certain movements could pull air into the box and it would no longer be a still air box.




The same can be said with any still air box's arm holes.

Isn't the reason people stopped using gloveboxes is because it creates a vacuum-like air that is more sensitive to movements? I don't see how air can come in a small gap unless there is airflow outside of the box from a fan or something


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Offlinedirtybirdx
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: WoolyMarmot]
    #26901437 - 08/26/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yea but the arm holes have to be there so we can put our arms in.

It’s about lowering the chances.

So, can you do it?  Sure.  But it will probably raise your likelihood of contamination and lower your success rate.  By how much, is uncertain.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: dirtybirdx]
    #26901491 - 08/27/20 12:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

My table is much smaller than my sab due to space restrictions, so I use my sab upright, with the lid on top


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
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Offlinedirtybirdx
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26901496 - 08/27/20 12:28 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I also use mine with the lid on top.

I prefer top loading my SAB without having to remove the entire enclosure.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: dirtybirdx]
    #26901566 - 08/27/20 02:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You can also just use the floor with a moist towel as your work surface.


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OfflineSmIzUrFDiscord
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Forrester]
    #26901628 - 08/27/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I would be too afraid to do work on the floor, the whole time I'd think about all the stuff that falls and collects on the floor from falling. Just a wrong arm movement could cause issues. Imo I'd def use that as a last resort...


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: SmIzUrF]
    #26901673 - 08/27/20 06:42 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I've heard of people using books or other things to sort of suspend their sab above their table/workspace so they can inoculate tall bags. But I imagine they'd have to work very carefully in an already draft free room, but it is possible.

If the gap worries you, you can always plug it up with paper towels, or something.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: One of Us]
    #26901721 - 08/27/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

He meant the floor of the sab, not the house :lol:


--------------------
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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26902817 - 08/27/20 06:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Nah I actually did mean the house :wink: 

I did all my SAB work that way.  Just lay down a towel as your work surface and keep it damn.  So you're not really working on the floor, you're working on a towel.

Whatever works best, it really doesn't matter if you use it right side up, upside down, or on what surface if your design of the box is correct and technique is good.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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InvisibleKernale
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: WoolyMarmot]
    #26902878 - 08/27/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

My SAB has this exact same issue; I use a towel, wet or dry it will bridge the gap, you can also curl it up around the sides if its not thick enough. Works for me.


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InvisibleMtbromo
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Kernale]
    #26902902 - 08/27/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Get some garbage bags and long sleeve heavy duty plastic gloves and use duck tape to seal the holes and make it into a glove box its very cheap to do and not hard at all.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Mtbromo] * 1
    #26902936 - 08/27/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Gloveboxes have too much airflow because they cause a piston effect


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
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Pick a book, Make some chips!
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OfflineNeowynd8
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Mtbromo]
    #26902939 - 08/27/20 07:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mtbromo said:
Get some garbage bags and long sleeve heavy duty plastic gloves and use duck tape to seal the holes and make it into a glove box its very cheap to do and not hard at all.




Don't do this


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OfflineWoolyMarmot
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Forrester]
    #26903001 - 08/27/20 07:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

lid on top would have been perfect but it is too late now since I've cut the armholes too low


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InvisibleMtbromo
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26903242 - 08/27/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gloveboxes have too much airflow because they cause a piston effect




More air flow than a box with giant open holes in them for contaminated human arms to enter in and out of?

I'd take a Glove box with all holes sealed and the lid clipped on fully wiped down and sprayed with 70% iso in a 70 quart mono tub where no human arms can touch anything, any day of the week.


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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Mtbromo]
    #26903281 - 08/27/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The air in a glove box is not as still as a SAB. These boxes only work because of still air. The holes actually keep the air more still. It might be counter intuitive but it is fact.


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InvisibleMtbromo
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Kernale]
    #26903286 - 08/27/20 10:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I understand your point. except your moving in and out of the box and moving your arms around inside the box creating air movement which can easily suck in contams from the open holes. plus your arms are exposed bringing in more contams.

There's pros and cons of every tek to blindly claim yours is 100% fool proof is foolish.

Ive never had any issues with contams in my glove box. I feel very safe in there like some mad scientist fucking shit up lol


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Mtbromo]
    #26903295 - 08/27/20 10:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Bigger holes = less piston effect = less to zero air movement
Arms not over media = no contam risk
How do you handle flame strerilizing?


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InvisibleKernale
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Mtbromo]
    #26903298 - 08/27/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It's the holes that keep it still. When you move your hands in the box the air can displace out the holes. In a glovebox there are no holes so the air just swishes around in the box. There is more ambient air movement in a glovebox than a still air box. Don't worry its not blind trust I understand why its better. And its definitely not foolproof, not even a flowhood is foolproof.

If it works for you then by all means keep doing it though.


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InvisibleMtbromo
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Goatrider]
    #26903351 - 08/28/20 12:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I flame inside the GB with a small blow torch.

To create the best of both worlds. WHAT IF I cut a 3 inch circle hole in the side of my GB and stuff it with polly fill so the piston air is filtered at least?

:smile:

#fuckingscience #debatetolearn #theprocess


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Offlinemeowjinx
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Mtbromo]
    #26903355 - 08/28/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mtbromo said:
I flame inside the GB with a small blow torch.

To create the best of both worlds. WHAT IF I cut a 3 inch circle hole in the side of my GB and stuff it with polly fill so the piston air is filtered at least?

:smile:

#fuckingscience #debatetolearn #theprocess




If you're really worried about bringing in contams on your arms in an SAB you could get some tyvek sleeves. I just raw dog it, but some people use tyvek suits when doing their sterile work

Not sure how long you've been using a glovebox, you seem to be happy with it and it's your grows, so feel free. I just think you should be cautious working with an open flame in a closed, unventilated compartment that you sanitized w/ iso alcohol

I'm not quite sure, tbh, what tf the piston effect is. I was never great at Physics. But I believe the issue w/ gloveboxes is that the rubber creates air currents with the air already inside the box, so adding a filter wouldn't fix it because you're not trying to filter air coming in, you're trying to stop air currents from being created from air that is already inside


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Mtbromo]
    #26903360 - 08/28/20 12:24 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

As Kernale said, it you get your work on spot and it works for you,
it`s fine. But i won`t handle a torch in a box with iso around.
I guess you just clean your tub with water and soap?
But i need iso in between and i won`t risk building a bomb  :hotidea:
Also a flame inside forces air currents.
If you get away with that i wouldn`t change anything.


                      :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: meowjinx] * 1
    #26903369 - 08/28/20 12:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meowjinx said:I'm not quite sure, tbh, what tf the piston effect is.




Try to imagine a railroad tunnel, as a train rushes through.
Open air, the air is moved to all directions except the ground.
In the tunnel it quickly reaches the borders forcing enormous air currents.
The piston effect is more complex of course, that`s just a little explanation.
So the bigger the arm holes in the sab, the less piston effect you have.
Also better for comfort, and not moving the sab from scratching narrow holes.


                            :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleMtbromo
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Goatrider]
    #26903392 - 08/28/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

wipe down whole GB with iso then close lid

iso evaporates very quickly

enter arm holes/gloves a few mins after, flame S cutting tool with no issue while grain/agar lids closed.

cut agar insert to jars, iso wipe or flame, cutter between dishes

for G2G its a non issue. you just wiping everything down with iso no flame.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: WoolyMarmot]
    #26903450 - 08/28/20 03:39 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I don't find not having a nicely flat surface on the bottom of the SAB matters for putting agar into jars. But when pouring agar into plates it must be level so I turn the box over on the kitchen table or a card table.


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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26903563 - 08/28/20 06:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Get you a better box and make a new one. 12$ and no more worries. But truth be told its pobably fine. Peoplework with a box that the whole front is cut out not just arm holes. Just be mindful of how you move and breath while you have open plates. When I first started I put some incense in the box and let it get Smokey then used old plates to practice my movements. It gave me a visual of how the air moves inside wich I found very helpful.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Bph]
    #26903801 - 08/28/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The lid isnt sealed. When you seal your arm holes moving around in there sucks air in through the lid


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Goatrider]
    #26903837 - 08/28/20 10:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Goatrider said:
How do you handle flame strerilizing?




With a lighter, inside the box, right after a good spray with iso.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: LadysKnight] * 1
    #26903858 - 08/28/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Thats a ticking time bomb


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: tryptkaloids] * 1
    #26903859 - 08/28/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Like, a literal bomb


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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OfflineTight Lunchbox
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26903914 - 08/28/20 10:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

obvious troll


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Tight Lunchbox] * 1
    #26904159 - 08/28/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I couldn’t imagine having my hands restricted by taped gloves while I’m doing work, especially those thick yellow ones. I used them once when disposable gloves were all out and then went straight to bare hands lol.

The glove box seems like it could work and I guess it does for some but flaming inside is dangerous when there’s fumes and the heat will cause air currents, not to mention the force of gas coming out of the torch so any contaminant spores still inside (and there will be unless you fill the whole thing up, seal, and sterilize it somehow before starting work) will get all whipped up in a frenzy.

I think the SAB seems too low tech/simple for people sometimes. Like with folks who have to automate their monotubs with gadgets they just can’t believe something so easy will work best.


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InvisibleKernale
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Re: Still-air box specific question [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26904198 - 08/28/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Roger Clemency said:

I think the SAB seems too low tech/simple for people sometimes. Like with folks who have to automate their monotubs with gadgets they just can’t believe something so easy will work best.





I think that's right on the money, people think its too simple. Technically speaking you could do work in open air as long as it's still. The box just prevents particles from your head or the ceiling from falling on the work.

I think people see laboratory grade equipment and think anything short of that couldn't possibly work. That's why you see beginners avoiding agar because they think they need a flowhood.


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