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Offlinemushman1017
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: eLeSDenes]
    #26897591 - 08/24/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Have any of you guys worked with oats at first, be good, then have nothing but problems consistently afterwords?  Ive been doing the same thing for MONTHS and getting nothing but trich or other molds in my jars... and this is after PC'ing them, putting them into a clean tub for holding and just sitting there uninnoculated. 

At first I thought it was the tyvek failing, so I changed out to fresh tyvek. Still contam'd out. Then I bought and made brand new metal lids and used new tyvek, still contam'd out. Ive gone from 90 mins to 120 mins to even 2.5 hours of PC'ing now and still cant get a fucking jar to not contam.  This is why I think its possible to have bad batches of oats no matter how sterile you get your end product with whatever equipment you have.

My normal process Ive done is boil a bunch of water, pour it into 1800 grams of oats in a big metal container and cover it with a lid and let it sit for 9-12 hours. Then I drain it, spread them out evenly on a cookie sheet and let it sit for 12 -16 hours to dry. Once its dry I can feel the oats barely have any kind of moisture, but nothing shows up on my hands regarding little dribblets of water. Ive been doing this process for 6 months without issue until recently. 

Is my prep method no good? I usually have a few burst grains but nothing out of the ordinary. Ive prob had 95% contam rate in the past 2 months and I dont know what to do. Any advice would be much appreciated.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: mushman1017]
    #26897670 - 08/24/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yes recently. I usually prep by bringing to a rolling boil, then leave it at medium for 20 minutes. The last batch of grain(same brand i always get) started clumping with my normal prep that ive done for years. I had to reduce that 20 minute time to 15 minutes and i havent had an issue since then. It seems this last batch of oats ive had has some heat sensitivity. Try lowering boil times and steep times.

Ive let some of the jars sit for weeks after the pc run without issue. And early august i started having trich outbreaks with the heat but that tiny adjustment solved the issue. Id definitely invest in better lids. It could be the issue if you have used them time and time again. I use sfd nickel size pieces in lids with 1/4 inch drilled. Ive used them for more than 10 years this way without changing or doing anything. Ive had to reattach 2 out of thousands of jar runs.

I do my grain differently, where i boil then keep at the rolling boil. Methods in my link if you want to compare. I strain 30 minutes till the grain is nice and dry. I think your going overkill on time with soaking the oats. I dont think thats your issue but i couldnt wait a full day to prep my grain. I need mine complete that night when i start it.


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Edited by eatyualive (08/24/20 06:54 PM)


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: mushman1017]
    #26897678 - 08/24/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushman1017 said:
Have any of you guys worked with oats at first, be good, then have nothing but problems consistently afterwords?  Ive been doing the same thing for MONTHS and getting nothing but trich or other molds in my jars... and this is after PC'ing them, putting them into a clean tub for holding and just sitting there uninnoculated. 

At first I thought it was the tyvek failing, so I changed out to fresh tyvek. Still contam'd out. Then I bought and made brand new metal lids and used new tyvek, still contam'd out. Ive gone from 90 mins to 120 mins to even 2.5 hours of PC'ing now and still cant get a fucking jar to not contam.  This is why I think its possible to have bad batches of oats no matter how sterile you get your end product with whatever equipment you have.

My normal process Ive done is boil a bunch of water, pour it into 1800 grams of oats in a big metal container and cover it with a lid and let it sit for 9-12 hours. Then I drain it, spread them out evenly on a cookie sheet and let it sit for 12 -16 hours to dry. Once its dry I can feel the oats barely have any kind of moisture, but nothing shows up on my hands regarding little dribblets of water. Ive been doing this process for 6 months without issue until recently. 

Is my prep method no good? I usually have a few burst grains but nothing out of the ordinary. Ive prob had 95% contam rate in the past 2 months and I dont know what to do. Any advice would be much appreciated.




Not only am I suffering the same problems, I’ve just started a grow log hoping people can help me solve the problem.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26894845


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26897700 - 08/24/20 07:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oats have been good to me. When it comes to prep I follow bod and another fellas instructions to dump em in a big pot and boil them for 45 or so. I don't simmer I don't rinse, and I don't soak just a full boil. I remember someone from here saying to boil them like "Satan fucking a tea kettle" and it's been great. Between 30-45 minutes I will stir it, take some out with a slotted spoon and if one goes squish betwixt my fingers I consider it good.

I dump them into a 3 gallon bucket I put a billion holes in with a soldering iron then dump them onto a beach towel and spread them out to steam dry. Lots of times I just keep making oats and dumping them on the pile until I use about 25lbs of dry oats. I leave them overnight and in the morning jar/bag and do PC runs all day.

My first big jar run was 144 1qt jars, I lost under 12 and I'm sure that's because I didn't vent my PC properly that time.

When I first started cultivating early this year I used tyvek and corn and quickly became frustrated at the rate of corntamination. I ditched tyvek for beading felt, gave up corn and never looked back. 1 square meter of beading felt costs me $10 and I'm convinced that it's the best possible filter material from a cost standpoint bar none. Just go to a fabric store and ask them for beading felt they'll know what it is. It works and it works very well. Using a scrapbook circle cutter from michaels makes it easy to bang out a 100 of them while watching an episode of the X-Files. I position the cutter on my coffee table, whack it with a mallet, eject the 1" circle filter and then move the cutter.

I dunno where I was going with this.


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OfflineEp1429
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: starbones]
    #26897731 - 08/24/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Oats have been good to me. When it comes to prep I follow bod and another fellas instructions to dump em in a big pot and boil them for 45 or so. I don't simmer I don't rinse, and I don't soak just a full boil. I remember someone from here saying to boil them like "Satan fucking a tea kettle" and it's been great. Between 30-45 minutes I will stir it, take some out with a slotted spoon and if one goes squish betwixt my fingers I consider it good.

I dump them into a 3 gallon bucket I put a billion holes in with a soldering iron then dump them onto a beach towel and spread them out to steam dry. Lots of times I just keep making oats and dumping them on the pile until I use about 25lbs of dry oats. I leave them overnight and in the morning jar/bag and do PC runs all day.

My first big jar run was 144 1qt jars, I lost under 12 and I'm sure that's because I didn't vent my PC properly that time.

When I first started cultivating early this year I used tyvek and corn and quickly became frustrated at the rate of corntamination. I ditched tyvek for beading felt, gave up corn and never looked back. 1 square meter of beading felt costs me $10 and I'm convinced that it's the best possible filter material from a cost standpoint bar none. Just go to a fabric store and ask them for beading felt they'll know what it is. It works and it works very well. Using a scrapbook circle cutter from michaels makes it easy to bang out a 100 of them while watching an episode of the X-Files. I position the cutter on my coffee table, whack it with a mallet, eject the 1" circle filter and then move the cutter.

I dunno where I was going with this.




Oats were great for me too.  In fact, after my testing over the last six months, I’ve concluded that it isn’t the oats.  I’m testing the old canning lids vs the plastic jobbers this grow, and if that doesn’t solve it, mycelium is the problem.


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Offlinelateforthafuture
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26897809 - 08/24/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I love oats.

I prep different than most have talked about in this thread.

I rinse, soak, drain, PC. No boiling.

I rinse them 2-3 times to get the excess dust off.

Fill whatever conainter I'm using 3/4 with oats then fill up with water.

Soak 12-24 hrs... closer to 24 hrs most of the time.

Once the soak is done, I throw them in my sink with a sink stopper/drainer, rinse with hot water, let drain for 2ish hours (I just go to the gym or run errands or whatever).

Then I load them in bags or jars and pc (2 or 2.5 hrs...depending on how I feel).

I've tried other methods of prepping oats and had the most success with the soak/no boil method.

Mossy Creek Mushrooms has a great youtube video about how they prep their oats for commercial production...I just followed what he does...works perfect everytime.


--------------------
"Not what could have been, or what should have been, but what will be" -Self
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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: eLeSDenes]
    #26897813 - 08/24/20 08:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eLeSDenes said:
all grains are good almost equally, just get the prep right




Agreed, i don't believe there is a "magic" grain. Its all in the prep. Oats have been good to me and Ive seen the more rhizo myc from them vs rye, millet, etc. Also less contams. I speculate its due to the more robust protective hull.

You can go super micro and say one has more nitrogen, one has more inoculation points, one has better nutes, etc. but at the end of the day with a clean grain prep almost any nutritious grain will work well.

Method that i find best:

1. soak for 4-6 hours to bloom any unwanted spores (optional. have been using no-soak with success)

2. rinse. basically dump the water out (or save for agar or LC) and run some clean water over it for a few minutes

3. add new clean water that covers the same amount or more of the grains (ie. if your grains are 6" inches high, make sure the water added is 6" high above the grain line. Err on the side of more water.

4. bring to a hard boil and then cover for 45min. Stir every 15min

5. turn the heat off and let sit for another 30min

6. drain into colander, toss around to release trapped water and then let sit for at least 8 hours or overnight. (optional - put on screens)

7. test outer moisture with paper towel method (put some grains on paper towel or tp and there shouldn't be any water)

8. drier is better at this point as the grains are internally hydrated. If you pinch the oats, the inside should be mushy.

9. load into jars or bags

10. PC sterilize at 15psi for 90 min.

Optional: add gypsum, coffee, and/or humic acid to the boil/cook

Oats are cheap and work well. Try it!


--------------------
Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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Offlinemushman1017
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26897851 - 08/24/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
Quote:



Oats were great for me too.  In fact, after my testing over the last six months, I’ve concluded that it isn’t the oats.  I’m testing the old canning lids vs the plastic jobbers this grow, and if that doesn’t solve it, mycelium is the problem.




Thats funny, I was thinking the same thing tonight... Like fuck, maybe I just need to take a new clone and start from scratch... I just poured like 8 agar plates a few days ago and the new growth I got from a transfer is very very tomentose... Ive been use to rizo growth. Im using 2% lme and 2% agar so I dont know why its not stringy as usual.

What type of oats do you get? Ive been doing producers pride and bought like 20 50 lb bags before pandemic so I had a stuff to use in case places shut down lol, so Im gonna be pissed if I have to toss out half a ton of oats.


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Offlinemushman1017
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: eatyualive]
    #26897865 - 08/24/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Yes recently. I usually prep by bringing to a rolling boil, then leave it at medium for 20 minutes. The last batch of grain(same brand i always get) started clumping with my normal prep that ive done for years. I had to reduce that 20 minute time to 15 minutes and i havent had an issue since then. It seems this last batch of oats ive had has some heat sensitivity. Try lowering boil times and steep times.

Ive let some of the jars sit for weeks after the pc run without issue. And early august i started having trich outbreaks with the heat but that tiny adjustment solved the issue. Id definitely invest in better lids. It could be the issue if you have used them time and time again. I use sfd nickel size pieces in lids with 1/4 inch drilled. Ive used them for more than 10 years this way without changing or doing anything. Ive had to reattach 2 out of thousands of jar runs.

I do my grain differently, where i boil then keep at the rolling boil. Methods in my link if you want to compare. I strain 30 minutes till the grain is nice and dry. I think your going overkill on time with soaking the oats. I dont think thats your issue but i couldnt wait a full day to prep my grain. I need mine complete that night when i start it.




Ive got my buddy ordering some sfd's for me, and I just read the whole lid tek about melting the sfd on vs silicone, so thats what I will plan on doing. Do I need to order the gaskets as well, or are they only used to make a LI?  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LWX1BCC/

The way I set my shit up with my oat prep is mainly to make sure I dont have to be there and be weary of everything cause I ve pretty much made it a daily chore. But if it is possible that my prep method is flawed I am willing to change and try it to see if it helps, ill try your method out prob tomorrow.

As far as the shit growing on my oats, its been between 110-118 here pretty much daily for the past 2 months now that I think about it, so my AC has been running a lot. But in the room its prob between 80 up to 86 at times... Do you think that would be the biggest factor? I know warmer temps speed things up but if Im PCing (in an instant pot) for 2+ hours wouldnt it kill most anything in there? Also when you leave it at medium for 20 mins do you keep the lid on it? Thanks for the input!


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Offlinemushman1017
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: starbones]
    #26897870 - 08/24/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Oats have been good to me. When it comes to prep I follow bod and another fellas instructions to dump em in a big pot and boil them for 45 or so. I don't simmer I don't rinse, and I don't soak just a full boil. I remember someone from here saying to boil them like "Satan fucking a tea kettle" and it's been great. Between 30-45 minutes I will stir it, take some out with a slotted spoon and if one goes squish betwixt my fingers I consider it good.

I dump them into a 3 gallon bucket I put a billion holes in with a soldering iron then dump them onto a beach towel and spread them out to steam dry. Lots of times I just keep making oats and dumping them on the pile until I use about 25 lbs of dry oats. I leave them overnight and in the morning jar/bag and do PC runs all day.

My first big jar run was 144 1qt jars, I lost under 12 and I'm sure that's because I didn't vent my PC properly that time.

When I first started cultivating early this year I used tyvek and corn and quickly became frustrated at the rate of corntamination. I ditched tyvek for beading felt, gave up corn and never looked back. 1 square meter of beading felt costs me $10 and I'm convinced that it's the best possible filter material from a cost standpoint bar none. Just go to a fabric store and ask them for beading felt they'll know what it is. It works and it works very well. Using a scrapbook circle cutter from michaels makes it easy to bang out a 100 of them while watching an episode of the X-Files. I position the cutter on my coffee table, whack it with a mallet, eject the 1" circle filter and then move the cutter.

I dunno where I was going with this.




Ill have to check the local fabric store for that material you suggest. Ill also need to make a home made colander out of a bucket maybe use a towel instead of a cookie sheet like you do yours... Sometimes I get some buildup on the cookie sheet so its prob not properly drying out.


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: mushman1017]
    #26899259 - 08/25/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Mush, i lived in a house with a wall unit ac. Temps would get upwards of what your talking about, sterilized sealed jars would green out in a matter of days. Anyway to keep your temps down? I am of the mind that is the issue. It was so bad i had to move out and get a place with hvac to grow.


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Offlinemushman1017
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: eatyualive]
    #26900401 - 08/26/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Mush, i lived in a house with a wall unit ac. Temps would get upwards of what your talking about, sterilized sealed jars would green out in a matter of days. Anyway to keep your temps down? I am of the mind that is the issue. It was so bad i had to move out and get a place with hvac to grow.




I have central AC in the house... I keep the house at 80 but like I said its not consistent throughout the house regarding temps... But ya, not really planning on dropping the ac much more cause the ac pretty much runs all the time as is... and Im mining crypto as well so my bill is like 500 a month lol.  I have another location where I actually go to spawn all my stuff, and that house is usually kept between 70 and 79 depending on the time of day. I might just PC my shit, plan to innoc soon after (I normally noc up 24 jars every 2-3 days) and move the jars to the other location so it can colonize at cooler temps.


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Offlinemushman1017
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: mushman1017]
    #26900615 - 08/26/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So I just did the boil method... Boiled 2160 grams of oats in water for about 25 mins... did the squeeze test. They squish in my fingers but are a little bit more stiff than with my other method. In my previous method when I squeeze one a bunch of white goo comes out from the center like puss from a zit. With this method stuff barely comes out, and when I cut it in half it looks like this :



Looks like its partially white on the inside when you cut in half. I assume this will be ok after letting it dry a bit then PC it, which should add the final touch of moisture to it?


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OfflineTheheadman100
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: mushman1017]
    #26900788 - 08/26/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Offlinemushman1017 Are you venting the PC for 10 minutes before you drop the weight? I had problems long ago when I forgot to vent the steam for 10 minutes before I started to build pressure. I don't remember who it was on here that did an permanent where he took a PC to pressure and shut it off and had a thermometer in it to record max temp. As I recall he found you can get to 15 psi but only be a 212F if you don't vent before you set the pressure weight.
On a side note I modified my AA921 to be a sterilizer so I generally run 2-2.5 hours at 20 PSI and I have yet to get a contam on my 60/40 Oats to WBS mix that I like.


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Offlinemushman1017
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Theheadman100]
    #26900902 - 08/26/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Theheadman100 said:
Offlinemushman1017 Are you venting the PC for 10 minutes before you drop the weight? I had problems long ago when I forgot to vent the steam for 10 minutes before I started to build pressure. I don't remember who it was on here that did an permanent where he took a PC to pressure and shut it off and had a thermometer in it to record max temp. As I recall he found you can get to 15 psi but only be a 212F if you don't vent before you set the pressure weight.
On a side note I modified my AA921 to be a sterilizer so I generally run 2-2.5 hours at 20 PSI and I have yet to get a contam on my 60/40 Oats to WBS mix that I like.





Im running an instant pot so there is no weight to place on... set it and forget it. I am using an IP duo and IP duo nova.


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OfflineWombraider
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: mushman1017]
    #26901022 - 08/26/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I like rye and popcorn, I tried oats and sooo many of them contam. I cant get Rye for cheap where I live so I recently switched back to popcorn, popcorn seems slower, but never contams at least not for me. I also find its way easier to shake the jars. Oats were damn near impossible to break up in the jar.


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OfflineMH5109
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Wombraider]
    #26901075 - 08/26/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

How long are people PCing oats for, I personally pc them for 2.5hrs at 15psi. I have jars that have sat for 4 weeks after sterilization and have not contamed out yet.


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OfflineTheheadman100
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: mushman1017]
    #26901116 - 08/26/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mushman1017 said:
Quote:

Theheadman100 said:
Offlinemushman1017 Are you venting the PC for 10 minutes before you drop the weight? I had problems long ago when I forgot to vent the steam for 10 minutes before I started to build pressure. I don't remember who it was on here that did an permanent where he took a PC to pressure and shut it off and had a thermometer in it to record max temp. As I recall he found you can get to 15 psi but only be a 212F if you don't vent before you set the pressure weight.
On a side note I modified my AA921 to be a sterilizer so I generally run 2-2.5 hours at 20 PSI and I have yet to get a contam on my 60/40 Oats to WBS mix that I like.





Im running an instant pot so there is no weight to place on... set it and forget it. I am using an IP duo and IP duo nova.




If I had to guess I'd say that's your problem right there. I got this from google
"Instant Pot has a max working pressure of 15.23psi (105kpa). ... Instant Pot's working pressure is in the range of 10.15~11.6 psi. If you have small amount of food/liquid in the cooker, Instant Pot may touch 15.23psi momentarily due to the heat conduction delay"
my experience tells me you need longer times with less then 15 psi, I'd start at 3 hours and see if you still get contaminates. I have 2 electric pressure cookers and I can tell you they don't vent more then about a minute or 2. So you have 10 psi and not enough venting working against you. I think you may need 3.5 hours or more. Not trying to be a dick, but I think I'd buy a pressure cooker that runs at 15 psi or more.


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Theheadman100]
    #26901184 - 08/26/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Theheadman100 said:
Offlinemushman1017 Are you venting the PC for 10 minutes before you drop the weight? I had problems long ago when I forgot to vent the steam for 10 minutes before I started to build pressure. I don't remember who it was on here that did an permanent where he took a PC to pressure and shut it off and had a thermometer in it to record max temp. As I recall he found you can get to 15 psi but only be a 212F if you don't vent before you set the pressure weight.
On a side note I modified my AA921 to be a sterilizer so I generally run 2-2.5 hours at 20 PSI and I have yet to get a contam on my 60/40 Oats to WBS mix that I like.




Quote:

bodhisatta said:

if you do not properly vent there will be air trapped in your jars still and in the void space in the cooker. Your gauge will eventually read 15psi but if you know anything about partial pressure you will not actually be at 15psi of steam pressure but X psi of steam and Y psi of air where X Y=15. This means you're sterilizing at a lower temperature than expected. In a static volume each gas in a mixture exerts the pressure it would as if it were the only gas in that volume. All of these partial pressures add up to the total pressure you see on the gauge. This is Dalton's law of partial pressure.





as you can see from the graphs at 1bar or 15psig 100% steam is 121C or 250F

Say you still have 10% air left from improper venting. If your gauge reads 15psi you're actually at ~116.5C or ~242F. Not only that but it actually makes the steam transfer heat less effectively so it's a compounded problem.




Bod's Pressure Cooker Use Tek
The Importance of Venting a Pressure Cooker ~Bod


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OfflineTheheadman100
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Re: Are oats not the way to go? [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #26901195 - 08/26/20 07:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

And Doctor Mario with the info I was too lazy to look up for you. Thanks Dr.


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