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Offlineqman
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MagicMush123] * 3
    #26900711 - 08/26/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Vahn for once we agree :lol:

Abolish the police usually doesnt mean to fully abolish. It is a right wing talking
point based on fear mongering. Asking the fed to not give cops the same
equipment our military uses against our enemies for use against american citizens is not abolishing police.

We pay their wages. Why are we treated, as a whole, as enemies? Every citizen can
one day have such technology used against them. That is not ok.

One day they came for my neighbor and I said nothing, the next day they came for me and
nobody was left to stand against them. If cops justify their actions because
the peolle they kill are criminals, that sets a bad precedent. What is legal
now may very well be illegal in a10 years or 10 days.



Well according to trump that equipment was just sitting in warehouses collecting dust, so they thought the police could make better use of them rather than sitting idle in a warehouse. Not arguing that they need that equipment per se but i can see the logic of repurposing it to police departments rather than destroying it

Im not really sure how defunding the police would make us any safer though. The police just need better training and different tactics while dealing with criminals or potential criminals.
Something like 40% of murders go unsolved. If you defund them and provide them with less resources i wouldn't see their success rate for say investigating murders going up




Well, enforcing stupid drug laws is where a huge bulk of the criminal justice money goes into, so just by decriminalizing drugs we could cut the budget by at least 30-40% in my opinion. Also, when you stop the drug laws you also cut down on the violent crime, so there's another huge expense eliminated.

Just imagine not paying for millions of senseless arrests, court cases, incarnations, probation and so many other mis-allocations.

When it's all said and done, we could defund the police/criminal justice system by 60% and still enforce all the meaningful laws everybody demands to be enforced. So not only does defunding make financial sense, it makes sense in every aspect of our nation because we can see the status quo isn't working.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26900725 - 08/26/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

How it feels. Now, if only the other side would raise the white flag.



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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: qman]
    #26900735 - 08/26/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Vahn for once we agree :lol:

Abolish the police usually doesnt mean to fully abolish. It is a right wing talking
point based on fear mongering. Asking the fed to not give cops the same
equipment our military uses against our enemies for use against american citizens is not abolishing police.

We pay their wages. Why are we treated, as a whole, as enemies? Every citizen can
one day have such technology used against them. That is not ok.

One day they came for my neighbor and I said nothing, the next day they came for me and
nobody was left to stand against them. If cops justify their actions because
the peolle they kill are criminals, that sets a bad precedent. What is legal
now may very well be illegal in a10 years or 10 days.



Well according to trump that equipment was just sitting in warehouses collecting dust, so they thought the police could make better use of them rather than sitting idle in a warehouse. Not arguing that they need that equipment per se but i can see the logic of repurposing it to police departments rather than destroying it

Im not really sure how defunding the police would make us any safer though. The police just need better training and different tactics while dealing with criminals or potential criminals.
Something like 40% of murders go unsolved. If you defund them and provide them with less resources i wouldn't see their success rate for say investigating murders going up




Well, enforcing stupid drug laws is where a huge bulk of the criminal justice money goes into, so just by decriminalizing drugs we could cut the budget by at least 30-40% in my opinion. Also, when you stop the drug laws you also cut down on the violent crime, so there's another huge expense eliminated.

Just imagine not paying for millions of senseless arrests, court cases, incarnations, probation and so many other mis-allocations.

When it's all said and done, we could defund the police/criminal justice system by 60% and still enforce all the meaningful laws everybody demands to be enforced. So not only does defunding make financial sense, it makes sense in every aspect of our nation because we can see the status quo isn't working.



Im not saying i agree with keeping drugs illegal, but at the moment they are. We can discuss the merits of decriminalizing drugs or certain drugs but at the end of the day they still remain highly illegal.

If changing certain laws like drug laws results in less police spending and they require less funding as a result thats one thing.  But to demand to defund the police while upholding all current laws is just asinine. They aren't even demanding to abolish drug laws for fuck sakes, they're merely demanding to "defund the police". I agree with you that the protesters are misguided because they're barking up the wrong tree. Instead of demanding that certain laws be abolished to make people's lives better they're demanding to defund the police while keeping everything else still in the place. It really doesnt make sense
So no. Defunding the police does not make sense. But abolishing certain laws, like drugs does. The two shouldn't be conflated.


Edited by MagicMush123 (08/26/20 03:11 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26900748 - 08/26/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
After he shot the guy in the head he then took off and was chased down by a bunch of people before shooting them. Fucking insane.

I heard at least 20 shots fired in the sequence

The twitter comments on these videos are shocking. Right wing posters are celebrating this.




He didn't shoot ANYONE until his life was THREATENED. The FOOTAGE makes this CLEAR.

Edit: If there is previous footage of him shooting someone, then I missed it. Where is it?



His life was never threatened. On the contrary he pointed a loaded rifle at people which is a felony. Even if those people are literally stealing or vandalizing something.
He should have been shot and if he were that would have been the only justified shooting in Kenosha


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26900751 - 08/26/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well, it looks like the Governor of Wisconsin has accepted Trump's offer to received federal assistance with the rioting and now we are beginning to see what kind of response a swing state has to the riots. People aren't as anti-Trump as we're led to believe...


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26900754 - 08/26/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Ok, I found the previous footage. What happened? Why did he shoot? What was the initial shot that was fired and why?

Everything I'm seeing in the second video is him in self-defense. They would have physically harmed him, so anyone is going to defend themselves in that situation.

The big question is, why did he shoot the first time? Everything really hinges on that.



There's no self defense during the commission of a crime. Like I said you would really benefit from a concealed carry class. If you murder someone you can't use your gun for self defense anymore


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26900755 - 08/26/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Yay, civil war 2.0. What I always wanted.



That I actually believe.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26900759 - 08/26/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
After he shot the guy in the head he then took off and was chased down by a bunch of people before shooting them. Fucking insane.

I heard at least 20 shots fired in the sequence

The twitter comments on these videos are shocking. Right wing posters are celebrating this.




He didn't shoot ANYONE until his life was THREATENED. The FOOTAGE makes this CLEAR.

Edit: If there is previous footage of him shooting someone, then I missed it. Where is it?



His life was never threatened. On the contrary he pointed a loaded rifle at people which is a felony. Even if those people are literally stealing or vandalizing something.
He should have been shot and if he were that would have been the only justified shooting in Kenosha




Oh yeah dude we made it way past that now. Given the original footage, the entire story changed for me. Standing alone, the first video I saw looked like a guy running away from a mob and then defending himself. Context is everything and I'm glad we had the other video which showed what happened prior.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26900763 - 08/26/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'm hearing from a friend that the first shooting was because the shooter went to go defend property from some people breaking and lighting cars on fire and violence started to escalate. I'm also hearing something about a molotov cocktail thrown at the shooter first.

I'll try to get him to verify his sources soon. This would change the story for me, and I'm with Qman on this one. If police are standing down and people wanna break other people's property, what did you all expect was going to happen sooner or later?



He has 0 right to be there to defend property that isn't his. He's not trained, not a cop, not skilled, not even a resident of the state he killed someone in.

You cannot even aim a gun at someone for property crime. There's no threat to your life.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26900780 - 08/26/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Ok so I'm looking at this footage even closer and I may be changing my mind again. Watch closely at the 30 second mark at the guy who throws an actual molotov cocktail at the kid with the gun. They run behind the car... I'm pretty sure it's that same guy who was shot... the guy that threw the molotov.

I've watched the footage over and over. The pants of the guy who threw the molotov cocktail and the guy lying on the floor in the footage afterward who was shot look the same. I think it's the same guy.

If it happens to be the same guy, I'm not gonna say the kid murdered anyone but did shoot in self-defense, not to protect anyone else's property.

Idiot shouldn't be out there with a gun in the first place, still, and whatever federal laws he broke with underage carry and crossing the border illegally with a firearm need to be addressed... but he's not a murderer IF he shot the guy who threw an actual molotov at him and then was likely coming after him afterward still.

Honest question: What kind of moron uses a molotov against a semi-automatic?


--------------------


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26900834 - 08/26/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I'm hearing from a friend that the first shooting was because the shooter went to go defend property from some people breaking and lighting cars on fire and violence started to escalate. I'm also hearing something about a molotov cocktail thrown at the shooter first.

I'll try to get him to verify his sources soon. This would change the story for me, and I'm with Qman on this one. If police are standing down and people wanna break other people's property, what did you all expect was going to happen sooner or later?



He has 0 right to be there to defend property that isn't his. He's not trained, not a cop, not skilled, not even a resident of the state he killed someone in.

You cannot even aim a gun at someone for property crime. There's no threat to your life.




None of them had a right to be there at all. There was a curfew.


--------------------
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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26900854 - 08/26/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Fuck curfew that is just another thing to shut down and criminalize any of the people protesting the cops.

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Ok so I'm looking at this footage even closer and I may be changing my mind again. Watch closely at the 30 second mark at the guy who throws an actual molotov cocktail at the kid with the gun. They run behind the car... I'm pretty sure it's that same guy who was shot... the guy that threw the molotov.

I've watched the footage over and over. The pants of the guy who threw the molotov cocktail and the guy lying on the floor in the footage afterward who was shot look the same. I think it's the same guy.

If it happens to be the same guy, I'm not gonna say the kid murdered anyone but did shoot in self-defense, not to protect anyone else's property.

Idiot shouldn't be out there with a gun in the first place, still, and whatever federal laws he broke with underage carry and crossing the border illegally with a firearm need to be addressed... but he's not a murderer IF he shot the guy who threw an actual molotov at him and then was likely coming after him afterward still.

Honest question: What kind of moron uses a molotov against a semi-automatic?



If someone throws a moltov towards you you don't get to shoot them 5+ minutes later. Especially if they're now unarmed. That's pretty simple shit


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26900881 - 08/26/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You guys are forgetting that the gun masturbators of the world live for this shit. The kid will probably be considered a hero by many.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: christopera]
    #26900883 - 08/26/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Already is.
Lots of people are just happy that protestors died.


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26900891 - 08/26/20 04:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Were they protesters or rioters?


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Eminence]
    #26900894 - 08/26/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:
Were they protesters or rioters?




At least one is a murderer.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: christopera]
    #26900898 - 08/26/20 04:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What about the murders committed by rioters? Did you ever mention those?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: Eminence] * 2
    #26900900 - 08/26/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

These protests had to be riots. Cops and the government really don't listen to anything else. People have been peacefully protesting for decades against police violence.

The worst thing protestors did was property crime.

I would say these militia people are the rioting ones. They're the ones killing people.


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26900903 - 08/26/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Glad you actually called it rioting. That's a start. But it isn't helping anything, they're just giving more support to the right and also police because innocent people are being caught up in the bullshit just for "being in the way." Even the cowards that are putting up signs supporting these people are getting fucked over anyway. It's actually pretty crazy how many liberals and otherwise just registered democrats I've seen saying they're voting for Trump because stuff like this is getting so out of hand to them. But you're just blatantly lying when you say rioters haven't been murdering people. Not to mention all the attacks that would have been considered attempted murder if these people were actually all being arrested.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Who are the real terrorists? Or are they ALL just terrorists? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26900906 - 08/26/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Fuck curfew that is just another thing to shut down and criminalize any of the people protesting the cops.

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Ok so I'm looking at this footage even closer and I may be changing my mind again. Watch closely at the 30 second mark at the guy who throws an actual molotov cocktail at the kid with the gun. They run behind the car... I'm pretty sure it's that same guy who was shot... the guy that threw the molotov.

I've watched the footage over and over. The pants of the guy who threw the molotov cocktail and the guy lying on the floor in the footage afterward who was shot look the same. I think it's the same guy.

If it happens to be the same guy, I'm not gonna say the kid murdered anyone but did shoot in self-defense, not to protect anyone else's property.

Idiot shouldn't be out there with a gun in the first place, still, and whatever federal laws he broke with underage carry and crossing the border illegally with a firearm need to be addressed... but he's not a murderer IF he shot the guy who threw an actual molotov at him and then was likely coming after him afterward still.

Honest question: What kind of moron uses a molotov against a semi-automatic?



If someone throws a moltov towards you you don't get to shoot them 5+ minutes later. Especially if they're now unarmed. That's pretty simple shit




It wasn't 5 minutes later. It all happened in the same few seconds. Please watch the footage as I explained in my previous post.


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