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Dziber
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Registered: 04/25/20
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Colonising bulk substrate
#26899896 - 08/26/20 04:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hello guys, this is my first post. I've been a member of this forum for about 6 months and started trying to grow mushrooms since then with no success. So I guess its time to ask. Sooo... I've got b+ and koh samui syringes. Inoc wbs seeds and had contam every single time with b+ (so I guess syringe was faulty) koh samui on the other hand worked in 2/2 jars I tried to colonise (tried around 10 with b+). So pretty much I tried to mix them with bulk substrate and myc seems to stay away from coco coir and verm no idea why. I can see my grains trough the plastic box and myc seems to be strong and fluffy but it just doesnt colonise the substrate anyone has any idea why? Its at room temp, substrate was at field capacity, covered with aluminum foil. its been a month now I know its way too long but it just smells like coco coir I dont think its contaminated. I just had 2 more koh samui jars fully colonised 2-3 days ago so I tried again and I cant see it spread to substrate again. bulk substrate coco coir, verm and gypsum.
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: Dziber]
#26899906 - 08/26/20 05:01 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey welcome kudos for trying all this time and not asking 10,000 questions.
Id say at this stage of one month post spawning it's unlikely that the substrate will fruit. (Normal substrates will fruit around the two week stage).
The aluminum foil is outdated. I'd consider sourcing new spores, but until then can you tell us more about what you're doing, pics or tek links, so we can give good feed back.
And pics (upload here, top left)
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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A.k.a
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: filthyknees]
#26899955 - 08/26/20 05:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Definitely pictures. I’m guessing the spawn was too bacterial to colonize the coir.
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LAGM2020     
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Dziber
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: filthyknees]
#26899956 - 08/26/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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umm... honestly I have no idea of teks names I was just reading different teks and I combined it with what I had available... I simmered wbs with bit of gipsum untill they soaked a lot of water and dried them loaded in jars with 1 GE hole stuffed with polyfill. Pced for about 2h-2:30 at 12psi (highest my pc goes) waited till they cool and inoc with being sterile as much as possible alcohol and flame sterilization of needle. room with closed windows few hours before etc... First I got b+ 6months ago and now got koh samui few months and since then I have success with koh samui. For bulk substrate my friend who's been growing for years told me to do coco coir verm 1:1 and up to 10%gypsum and then to mix substrate with jars 2:1. coco coir and verm first I soaked over night in a container with cling film over it. Then I put layer of substrate on bottom, wbs and layer of substrate on top to cover all wbs in a new box wiped with alcohol and just covered with aluminum foil and left on a shelf. Ill upload some pics a bit later when I have more time.
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A.k.a
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: Dziber]
#26899964 - 08/26/20 06:03 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok definitely bacterial then. Between undercooking in the pc and using syringes it’s gotta be that.
There’s a conversion chart for how much longer you need to cook the grain depending on how far under 15psi it is. Idk for sure but at 12 it’s probably like six hours.
If you can’t get one that hits 15psi you’ll be much better off with brf cakes.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (08/26/20 06:05 AM)
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Dziber
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26899977 - 08/26/20 06:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I could try brf cakes for sure. Also I saw on forum that people are doing it with 12 psi for 1/2 hour or hour more and it works for them. Didn't see anywhere that someone does it for 6 hours but its worth a try. Im willing to try anything at this point . Also my friend told me when he started and didnt have a pc he was just boiling rye grains and it worked around 70% of the time. Thank you so much for help. Now I have some new things to try
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A.k.a
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: Dziber]
#26899986 - 08/26/20 06:21 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The six hours is almost a total guess, I’d look up the chart and see for sure.
I’m calling bullshit on boiled rye working 70% of the time especially using a syringe. You’ll get a feel for things pretty quick if you stick with it. Cubes are very easy if you follow the directions and don’t mess with them too much while they grow.
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LAGM2020     
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Dziber
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26899998 - 08/26/20 06:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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He's been doing with with spore prints and rye not syringes and wbs. Honestly didn't think syringes are such pain in the ass. Thanks again will try with new batch these days and pc it a lot longer. And also brf cakes hopefully it works out .
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the.raven
it learns


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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: Dziber]
#26900095 - 08/26/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Following best practices will lead to higher yields and more consistent results. It's recommended to PC at 15psi because higher temps are achieved. I have introduced spores directly to grain before and achieved a 25% contamination rate over 48 samples. I have a 2% contam rate (500+ samples) using agar>grain>sub, most of those contams are spotted before ever introducing my culture to grain. Spore to grain is a risky move. At worst your resulting mycelium is weak and easily overtaken by mold or bacteria. More often than not, you get weak mycelium that struggles to fight against competing bacteria/mold. Colonization of grain from spore is much slower, providing any competing organisms a chance to grow. You may not have capabilities to do agar work at the moment but I would encourage it. Get some experience pouring plates or using no-pour techniques. You can place a kernel of colonized grain to agar and start cleaning your culture. Once you have a few transfers made and healthy, vigorous cultures find a PC that reaches 15psi and transfer your myc to properly processed grain. There are lots of great teks to get you started. Follow best practices, your cultures and you will be happier for it.
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: the.raven]
#26900116 - 08/26/20 08:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here's some thoughts from a beginner who is around 8 months ahead of you..
The perhaps very first true hurdle to jump, is to get "fruitable spawn". I say fruitable, even though what we aim for is super clean isolated growth on a nutrious medium, transferable to grains. Clean spawn. Clean growth. Thats the idea.
If you can avoid mold contamination during colonization stage, most bacterial spawn will finish colonization and fruit.
But its not ideal. The great growers scoff at such spawn. You dont want to mix bacterial spawn with clean spawn, you dont want to use it for grain to grain transfers. Its only good for fruiting with its own kind, and to get material to continue the grow cycle, which usually only is a problem in the beginning of the hobby.
Lots of bacterial spawn "situations" arise from too much water in the jars or your sub material being too moist otherwise.
You can see bacteria on your jars, it has certain clear signs like moist rings around your grain, and the general wet, slimy look. The myc will look more fluffy, there will be yellow metabolites, growth will be slower and uglier.
When you join shroomery and start reading, you learn about field capacity. Field capacity is perfection, what you can also keep in mind, is to err on the "dry side". If you err on the dry side, you are erring in a way that only in extreme cases will affect ability to fully colonize, and it doesnt promote bacterial growth.
This goes for both grains and coir.
If you err on the wet side, it's much more dangerous to your grow.
The true future goalpost after achieving any fruitable spawn, if you are working incrementally, like we often do, should be to have clean growth on robust media, like a nice looking growth on a agar dish, or a grain jar with especially beautiful growth and convincing moisture levels. (Master jar)
When you can successfully fruit your spawn, the next problems arise with:
- Surface conditions - Isolates (Multispore is said to be more random, which ofc makes sense) - Avoiding contaminations that reduce yield
If you want to fully immerse yourself in the typical routes of the hobby, you want to work on getting a very clean growth on a single jar or a petri dish, and use this is a basis for fruiting and isolation.
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
Edited by smalltalk_canceled (08/26/20 08:46 AM)
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Dziber
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Re: Colonising bulk substrate [Re: Dziber]
#26900248 - 08/26/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I did some dogfood agar week ago and looking good so far, I might use it for my next batch. I read up a bit more and found chart for pcing that says I should pc my grains for about 3 hours at 12 psi so Ill go for 3:30 just to be safe. I'm constatly playing with everything so I have shitload of jars working with different methods and stuff... I think it was all just a problem with pcing and thats all... we'll see in few weeks thanks all
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