Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < First | < Back | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | Next >
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 11 days, 2 hours
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: downwardsfromzero]
    #26899349 - 08/25/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I am happy to answer any other questions you may have about covid treatment to the best of my ability! I wont pretend to know more than I do or do any googling to make up for gaps in my knowledge, I will just do my best to speak from experience. Feeling useful feels good.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker
Male


Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods]
    #26899396 - 08/25/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Yes the problem with HCQ as a potential prophylactic is the fact that a not insignificant portion of the population will have life threatening side effects.

I really find it amazing that someone like hamhead who is super worried about the side effects of vaccines completely ignores the known and predictable serious side effects of HCQ. Without surveillance of patients, HCQ will kill some people. This is a fact. We know its safety profile.



Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

HamHead said:
Quote:

koods said:
Hydroxychloroquine is a completely synthetic chemical. It does not exist in nature




Isn't LSD synthesized? There's ergot but is it active without any processing?

:shrug:




You’re the one copy pasting long essays about a tree that has abolutely nothing to do with HCQ. Why? Seems like your trying to imply that HCQ is a natural product that comes from a tree, when it is not. It is synthesized from petrochemicals, which are themselves synthetic products made from crude oil.




What's a white paper?

Hydroxychloroquine white paper, page 1/29
Synopsis:
This white paper is to draw the reader’s attention to the indisputable safety of
hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), an analog of the same quinine found in tree barks that George
Washington used to protect his troops. The modern version has been FDA approved for
65 years, has shown remarkable efficacy against SARS-CoV-2 and its use is being
wrongly restricted despite the immediate danger to the American people and the rest of the
world.
We speak in support of immediately reversing the massive, irresponsible disinformation
campaign that is literally preventing doctors from dispensing HCQ, advocating as well
that it be made available over the counter in the United States. This is logistically easy to
do in a manner that ensures the supply and appropriate dispensation.
Introduction:
The purpose of this white paper is to dispassionately present the evidence regarding the
safety and efficacy of hydroxychloroquine and determine its proper role in the current
pandemic.
General Consensus that Hydroxychloroquine is Safe
Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) has been FDA approved for over 65 years and has been used
billions of times throughout the entire world without restriction. For many decades it has
been given to: pregnant women, breastfeeding women, children, elderly patients, immune
compromised patients and healthy persons.
In the USA it is used most often in three situations: systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE),
rheumatoid arthritis (RA), and as malaria prophylaxis for travelers. These three situations
happen to represent three different types of populations.
Patients with SLE are immune compromised.
Patients with RA are elderly.
Travelers are younger and typically healthy.
Although all doctors can and do prescribe HCQ, because it is most commonly used for
SLE and RA, rheumatology specialists are the physicians in America who prescribe it the
most. Although it is in the safest category of medication and it is virtually always safely
used, the two most common possible complications fall under the specialty of cardiology
and ophthalmology.
So let us see what these three types of specialties say.

Page 2/29

What do the Rheumatologists Say?
The physicians who prescribe HCQ the most are rheumatologists. Patients who need
HCQ typically are on the medication for years or decades. Therefore rheumatologists have
extensive experience with this medication. They make decisions daily regarding this
medication. They decide who can get the medication, is safe or unsafe, how much to give,
how often to dose, when to increase/decrease the dose, what testing if any should be done
prior to starting the medication, can the medicine be taken with other medicines, when to
stop the medication, what the side effects are. To help them with such decisions,
rheumatologists can check with their professional society: American College of
Rheumatology (ACR.)
The ACR website:
Hydroxychloroquine typically is very well tolerated. Serious side effects are
rare. The most common side effects are nausea and diarrhea, which often
improve with time. Less common side effects include rash, changes in skin
pigment (such as darkening or dark spots), hair changes, and muscle weakness.
Rarely, hydroxychloroquine can lead to anemia in some individuals. This can
happen in individuals with a condition known as G6PD deficiency or
porphyria.
In rare cases, hydroxychloroquine can cause visual changes or loss of vision.
Such vision problems are more likely to occur in individuals taking high doses
for many years, in individuals 60 years or older, those with significant kidney
or liver disease, and those with underlying retinal disease. At the recommended
dose, development of visual problems due to the medication is rare. It is
recommended that you have an eye exam within the first year of use, then
repeat every 1 to 5 years based on current guidelines.
Additional rare reports of changes in the heart rhythm have been reported with
the use of hydroxychloroquine, particularly in combination with other
medications. While monitoring for this risk is not typical in the office setting, it
has been indicated in hospitalized and critically ill patients to evaluate for
interactions with other medications.1
In other words the professional society of the physicians who prescribe this drug the most,
for years have said the following:
1. serious side effects are rare
2. visual changes can happen in people taking high doses for years
3. heart rhythm changes are so uncommon that there is no monitoring pre-use
1 https://www.rheumatology.org/Portals/0/Files/Hydroxychloroquine-Plaquenil-Fact-
Sheet.pdf?ver=2020-04-30-154904-073

Page 3/29

In an interview with Dr. Mehmet Oz, prominent Los Angeles rheumatologist, Professor of
Medicine, Associate Director of the Rheumatology Dept. Cedars Sinai Medical Center Dr.
Daniel Wallace said the following:2

Dr. Oz: Is HCQ safe?
A: In 42 years of clinical practice I’ve treated several thousand lupus patients
and I would like to emphasize that all rheumatologists have a great deal of
experience with this drug. Regarding safety, since it came out 70 years ago,
several million patients have taken the drug. There have not been any reported
deaths from using this agent as monotherapy or taken only by itself.
Dr. Oz: Q: arrhythmia, heart issues?
A: It is a problem with CQ, which is its first cousin. And it was a problem with
HCQ in the 1950’s and 1960’s when doctors were using 2-3x its usual dose. In
the current recommended dose it really does not occur. 400 mg/day.
What do the Cardiologists Say?
Next let us consider the alleged complication that has dominated the news, which is a
potential heart problem. Those specialists are cardiologists. Heart rhythm problems are so
rare with HCQ that it is common practice not to do an EKG prior to starting the
medication. It’s the opposite of the truth to claim that there is a heart risk when the
specialty professional organization denies that, and when it is not what has been done for
decades prior to this pandemic. In addition, the American Heart Association has
demonstrated it is safe during Covid-19, which will be discussed below.
3
Prominent Los Angeles cardiologist Dr. Daniel Wohlgelernter states:
Over the last 30 years I have had several hundred patient visits specifically to
discuss the toxicity of hydroxychloroquine. During that time, not a single
patient has been taken off of this drug for cardiac toxicity.4
The largest meta analysis published in 2018, revealed only 50 cardiac deaths attributed to
hydroxychloroquine in 60 plus years.5
The largest database analysis that examined this issue stated the following:
The results on the risk of severe adverse events associated with short-term (1
month) HCQ treatment as proposed for COVID-19 therapy are reassuring, with
2

3 https://doi.org/10.1.1161/CIRCEP.120.008662
4 http://www.santamonicacardiology.com/wohlgelernter.php
5
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29858838/?from_term=Hydroxychloroquine+and+cardiac&fro
m_pos=1

Page 4/29

no excess risk of any of the considered safety outcomes compared to an
equivalent therapy.6
What do the Ophthalmologists Say?
In an interview with Laura Ingraham, Dr. Richard Urso, ophthalmologist said this:
I have had several thousand patient visits to specifically discuss the toxicity of
this drug over my last 30 years. It’s a super safe drug. It’s safer than Tylenol,
aspirin, Motrin.7
There is no visual risk for short courses of HCQ. No one ever even suggests such a thing.
The people who use HCQ for a short period of time are travelers. Even the CDC website
does not suggest an eye exam. Rheumatologists and ophthalmologists who are familiar
with the rare visual problems all say the same thing. There is a rare risk of retinopathy that
is possible when a patient has been on the medication for many years. The risk of retinal
toxicity at five years of continuous use is zero. The risk of retinal toxicity at ten years of
continuous use is 1%. It gets higher after ten years of continuous use.”8
Toxicity can be seen in the macula and electrical conduction of the heart, after years
of use. Typically patients who have ingested 1/2 to 1 kilo in their lifetime become
more susceptible to these issues. Over a short-term course it is never seen.9
To put the amount that is needed to even possibly be at risk for retinopathy in perspective,
that is many years of using daily.
Safety Studies
It is self-evident that HCQ is safe from the fact that it has been FDA approved for 65 years
and has been used many billions of times all over the world and it is over the counter in
most of the world, certainly pre-2020. It is the #1 most used medication in India, the
second most populous nation on the planet with 1.3 billion people. If an American travels
to a location where malaria is endemic, per the CDC, they would start HCQ before they
left for their trip. There has never been an allegation that HCQ is not safe until 2020.
The only allegations of HCQ not being safe relate to a potential heart problem. The media
has stated this so often that many people, including physicians, think there is a potential
heart problem. However the evidence is overwhelming that HCQ is very low risk.
6 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20054551v2
7 Dr. Richard Urso, ophthalmologist on Laura Ingraham July 10, 2020. 8 Dr. Daniel Wallace, rheumatologist on Dr. Oz April 8, 2020

9 Dr. Richard Urso, ophthalmologist on Laura Ingraham July 10, 2020

Page 5/29

I. In the largest study to date on the subject, HCQ has been shown to not increase heart
(cardiac) risk.
10 This study was across a multinational, distributed database network. It
studied all the data for 20 years, from January 9, 2000 – 2020 on patients who were
prescribed HCQ. The study had two goals: to understand the safety of HCQ by itself and
its safety when paired with the antibiotic azithromycin. This paper was authored by
scientists from 33 countries and companies across the world.
The paper is titled “Safety of hydroxychloroquine, alone and in combination with
azithromycin, in light of rapid widespread use for COVID-19: a multinational, network
cohort and self-controlled case series study.” In plain English, the authors found that over
a twenty-year period, looking at almost one million patients, those taking HCQ did not
have an increased risk of heart problems. It says:
This is the largest ever analysis of the safety of such treatments worldwide,
examining over 900,000 HCQ and more than 300,000 HCQ + azithromycin
users respectively. The results on the risk of serious adverse events associated
with short-term (1 month) HCQ treatment as proposed for COVID-19 therapy
are reassuring, with no excess risk of any of the considered safety outcomes
compared to an equivalent therapy.
II. The FDA database shows a total of 640 deaths attributable to HCQ over fifty years. To
put this in context “Each year the FDA receives over one million adverse event reports
associated with the use of drug products” “This concerns the entirety of HCQ use over
more than 50 years of data, likely millions of uses and of longer-term use than the five
days recommended for Covid-19 treatment.”11 The 640 deaths represented 0.034% of all
the deaths (1,910,212) attributable to medications.
10 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20054551v2. The authors include
scientists from: University of Oxford, Fundacio Institut Universitari per a la recerca a l’Atencio
Primaria de Salut Jordi Gol I Gurina, University of Sao Paulo, Massachusetts General Hospital,
King Saud University, Harvard School of Public Health, Department of Veterans Affairs,
University of Utah School of Medicine, University of Zagreb School of Medicine, Columbia
University Medical Center, Islamic University of Gaza, New York Presbyterian Hospital, National
Institute for Health and Care UK, University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center, Erasmus
Medical Center, Vanderbilt University, University of Arizona College of Medicine, University of
Dundee Scotland, Institute of Medicine Sweden, Ajou University South Korea, National
University of Singapore, UCLA, Shanghai University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Peking
Union Medical College, University of Melbourne, Janssen Research, Real World Solution,
Actelion Pharmaceuticals, Real-World Evidence Spain, AstraZeneca, RTI Health Solutions, Bayer
Pharmaceuticals
11 US Food & Drug Administration. FDA Adverse Events Reporting System (FAERS) Public
Dashboard. https://fis.fda.gov/sense/app/d10be6bb-494e-4cd2-82e4-
0135608ddc13/sheet/7a47a261-d58b-4203-a8aa-6d3021737452/state/analysis

Go ahead and Google the rest. I'm not about to paste another two dozen pages, unless koods wants to continue to disagree about HCQ and its safety, I will.

Because hammers see nails and this is a nail that has bent over and is being beaten flat.

Interpretation on this? You can go find and read it yourself if you think this came from deep within my rectal cavity.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinelowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!
Male

Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 9,717
Last seen: 1 minute, 57 seconds
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26899428 - 08/25/20 08:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Even if hydroxychloriquine was an effective treatment we’ll never know because the ‘orange man bad’ crowd will happily let people die to fit their agenda.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 11 days, 2 hours
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: lowbrow]
    #26899450 - 08/25/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Even if hydroxychloriquine was an effective treatment we’ll never know because the ‘orange man bad’ crowd will happily let people die to fit their agenda.


HamHead has apparently been posting papers by doctors and scientists all over the world are doing HCQ trials :rolleyes: You could at least try to hide the fact that nothing outside the USA appears to factor into your thoughts.


HamHead, this paper that you post says
Quote:

Conduction disorders were the main side effect reported, affecting 85% of patients



and concludes that

Quote:

Clinicians should be warned that chloroquine- or hydroxychloroquine-related cardiac manifestations, even conduction disorders without repercussion, may be initial manifestations of toxicity, and are potentially irreversible. Therefore, treatment withdrawal is required when cardiac manifestations are present.




The dysrhythmias are the problem. I've told you months ago via PM and numerous times since something to this effect:

Quote:


The reason we don't use hcq anymore isnt that it "doesnt work", the reason is that it is dangerous to use in the types of covid patients who get hospitalized. Most of them of them are already hyperkalemic due to acidosis and renal injury which prolongs qt interval, many have ischemic intravascular disseminated coagulopathy and are this prone to myocardial infarction


The hyperkalemia in and of itself causes dysrhythmias. And another- the dysrhythmias of particular concern are ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation- the former frequently degenerates into the latter, and the latter is an immediate life-threatening emergency. The tendency for this to happen increases significantly in COVID patients receiving HCQ. Which is why we stopped using it. In addition to the fact that it didn't seem to be helping all that much

Quote:

It’s safer than Tylenol,
aspirin, Motrin.7


just picked a random quote from your long copy paste. Even these "safe drugs" have diseases in which their use is contraindicated: cirrhosis, reye's syndrome, and acute kidney failure, respectively. Those "safe" drugs can become deadly under these conditions, just like HCQ can become deadly in patients with COVID-related hyperkalemia and DIC. Every drug or treatment, no matter how safe, has conditions under which it's not a good idea to employ it. Even normal saline.


Edited by morrowasted (08/25/20 08:34 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: morrowasted]
    #26899460 - 08/25/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've heard were acetaminophen invented today it wouldn't ever be over the counter because of its low safety threshold


--------------------
:whyyy:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 11 days, 2 hours
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26899463 - 08/25/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I've heard were acetaminophen invented today it wouldn't ever be over the counter because of its low safety threshold



It does have a relatively small therapeutic index as far as OTC drugs go :shrug: Tylenol isn't given out in alcohol detox centers because it can make their already damaged livers fail pretty quickly


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker
Male


Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: morrowasted]
    #26899478 - 08/25/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You didn't see it work because you were watching it being used in paitents who are hospitalised, yes?

I agree with you. Everyone reacts differently to drugs of all sorts, Tylenol included. HCQ probably shouldn't be given to those who are already in a hospital with Covid infection as studies have shown that late(er) treatments with HCQ had little effect.

It's that early treatment that keeps getting danced around with you, because you have not seen people outside of your hospital settings receiving HCQ as a preventive and/or prescribed at first signs of symptoms.

HCQ is safe enough to be over the counter in many countries. Similar to how Tylenol, Motrin and aspirin is in US.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26899484 - 08/25/20 08:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

This white paper is to draw the reader’s attention to the indisputable safety of
hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), an analog of the same quinine found in tree barks that George
Washington used to protect his troops. The



What is the point of this statement in a white paper? Hydroxychloroquine does not come from a tree.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26899485 - 08/25/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
You didn't see it work because you were watching it being used in paitents who are hospitalised, yes?

I agree with you. Everyone reacts differently to drugs of all sorts, Tylenol included. HCQ probably shouldn't be given to those who are already in a hospital with Covid infection as studies have shown that late(er) treatments with HCQ had little effect.

It's that early treatment that keeps getting danced around with you, because you have not seen people outside of your hospital settings receiving HCQ as a preventive and/or prescribed at first signs of symptoms.

HCQ is safe enough to be over the counter in many countries. Similar to how Tylenol, Motrin and aspirin is in US.




I bought ketamine, Ritalin and Xanax over the counter in Mexico.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods]
    #26899488 - 08/25/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It’s been six months. Where is the data showing HCQ and zinc is effective in early covid?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker
Male


Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods]
    #26899489 - 08/25/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

This white paper is to draw the reader’s attention to the indisputable safety of
hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), an analog of the same quinine found in tree barks that George
Washington used to protect his troops. The



What is the point of this statement in a white paper? Hydroxychloroquine does not come from a tree.




Yes, koods, we have established this, HCQ is a synthetic analog of a medicine found in a tree.
Quote:

koods said:
It’s been six months. Where is the data showing HCQ and zinc is effective in early covid?




🤦

https://c19study.com/


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Edited by HamHead (08/25/20 08:50 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26899525 - 08/25/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Those are all retrospective studies. Where are the double blind controlled studies.

My main issue with these studies is the fact that certain conditions that preclude a patient receiving HCQ are also conditions that tend to have worse outcomes with covid. If you exclude people from your study that we know tend to fare worse, then you get better results.

Show me a study where you preselect patients who can take HCQ safely, then randomize them into two groups one receiving and one not. That’s the only study worth anything


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 11 days, 2 hours
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26899526 - 08/25/20 09:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You didn't see it work because you were watching it being used in paitents who are hospitalised, yes?




There is a whole range of acuity of patients in the hospital. Acuity is how we refer to how much treatment someone needs. Some people get 2liters of supplemental O2 (the lowest dose) and some tylenol for a few days and are on their way. Some people are on ventilators and 100% O2 with anticoagulants, interleukin inhibitors, remdesivir, cortiocosteroids. And everything in between. The idea that simply because someone is "hospitalized" they're already too sick to qualify gives away how far out of your league you're speaking. By the time COVID hit here, plenty  of patients were showing up within hours of symptom onset, because the dangers of COVID were being spoken about on the news constantly. Some of them received HCQ. It's hard to tell how effective it was just based on our own patient population. You need a very large sample size to determine that a drug is helping people survive COVID. I can tell you for certain that the telemetry alarms- the sounds that go on when the computer auto-detects the development of a dysrhthmia- were conspicuously louder when HCQ was in use, and a greater proportion of patients are surviving now than were back in March-May, but it's hard to piece apart the role that each change in treatment strategy- ventilator indications and use, remdesivir use, interleukin inhibitor use, anticoagulant use, simple changes in positioning protocols- has played in that change.

Quote:


It's that early treatment that keeps getting danced around with you, because you have not seen people outside of your hospital settings receiving HCQ as a preventive and/or prescribed at first signs of symptoms.


We've been over this, but from the previous page:

Quote:

Furthermore, even if it were shown to be a reasonably effective prophylactic agent, there are logistical reasons to doubt that it would be particularly useful. There could be certain populations- like healthcare workers and first responders with frequent exposure- for whom prophylactic protocols could be reasonably implemented, but we can't simply mail out HCQ to the general population. Even outside the context of COVID, people beginning medications like HCQ undergo an assessment to determine the likelihood that the benefits of taking the drug will outweigh the consequences. With respect to HCQ, this assessment typically involves doing an electrocardiogram and drawing blood to determine the levels of certain electrolytes that can precipitate cardiac dysrhythmias when they are present outside of the standard physiologic concentrations in blood. We cannot conduct such an assessment on millions of people. The time, personnel, and expense required to conduct such an operation would be astronomical.




You don't seem to understand the concept of prophylaxis in general. You've said "a 5 day course is sufficient". A 5 day course is not used for prophylaxis, it's for treatment. Prophylaxis requires continuous dosing. When you stop taking it, the effects wear off. Pretty simple. In any case, both prophylaxis and the "5 day treatment course" require an assessment before they are safe to give. Doctors are already spread thin.


Edited by morrowasted (08/25/20 09:25 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods]
    #26899534 - 08/25/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, koods, we have established this, HCQ is a synthetic analog of a medicine found in a tree.




So what? What is the purpose of such a statement?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: lowbrow]
    #26899537 - 08/25/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Even if hydroxychloriquine was an effective treatment we’ll never know because the ‘orange man bad’ crowd will happily let people die to fit their agenda.



Hydroxychloroquine is by far the most studied potential therapeutic for covid, and until recently the most prescribed.

While you cannot draw any conclusions, it is interesting that the CFR in the US has dropped significantly since HCQ stopped being routinely given to Covid patients


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker
Male


Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: morrowasted]
    #26899558 - 08/25/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps if it were OTC similar to other countries, more common peoples would have easier access.

If lupus patients take daily doses of HCQ, I don't see why it would be any issue for healthy healthcare workers to be taking a single, 200-400mg dose of HCQ per day. Of course there will be alarms raised on how each of these HCW need to go through screenings and such, but again, HCQ has been taken by millions of people over it's 65+ year lifespan.

HCQ science is not new. There is much that has been done. It has been found to be safe at recommended doses.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26899573 - 08/25/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It’s completely absurd to consider doing that without solid data showing it works.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker
Male


Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods]
    #26899585 - 08/25/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Yes, koods, we have established this, HCQ is a synthetic analog of a medicine found in a tree.




So what? What is the purpose of such a statement?




I don't know koods, 5-MEO-DMT can be found in toad, though there are strong arguments synthetic is a better option. Is that enough of a purpose, scarcity?

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

lowbrow said:
Even if hydroxychloriquine was an effective treatment we’ll never know because the ‘orange man bad’ crowd will happily let people die to fit their agenda.



Hydroxychloroquine is by far the most studied potential therapeutic for covid, and until recently the most prescribed.

While you cannot draw any conclusions, it is interesting that the CFR in the US has dropped significantly since HCQ stopped being routinely given to Covid patients




While Minnesota reverses restrictions.

https://www.news-expressky.com/news/national/article_3f0bbb5d-c3e1-513e-bb55-7e7ebd4af4d7.html


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 11 days, 2 hours
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods] * 1
    #26899591 - 08/25/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

At this point you're just blatantly ignoring the parts of our posts that aren't convenient for you in the same way you do for papers, HamHead.

Quote:


If lupus patients take daily doses of HCQ, I don't see why it would be any issue for healthy healthcare workers to be taking a single, 200-400mg dose of HCQ per day



Because lupus doesn't make you go into acidosis and develop hyperkalemia.
Quote:

It has been found to be safe at recommended doses.


Aspirin has been found to be safe at recommended doses, but it'll kill you anyway if you have Reye's. Morphine is safe at effective doses, but it'll kill you if you're overdosing. Lots of drugs for anesthesia are safe at recommended doses, but can cause malignant hyperthermia with certain genetic mutations. I could go on and on and on.

There is nothing else that needs to be said in this discussion. Every point you've made has been systematically debunked. Most of them over and over again. It'll be cool if these other countries discover that HCQ helps their patients a little bit and doesn't hurt them very much, because they don't have easy access to Remdesivir. I hope they do. Unfortunately for the people of those countries, I wouldn't count on it.

If you ever decide you actually want to know learn something about medicine, give me a shout. It's a fascinating field of study and a thrilling profession to practice. Take care.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 1 hour, 23 minutes
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: morrowasted]
    #26899606 - 08/25/20 10:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The reversal by Walz, a first-term Democrat, clears the way for doctors to prescribe hydroxychloroquine, a drug commonly used to treat malaria and other conditions but one the FDA has declined to recommend for COVID-19 treatment.




Doctors are free to prescribe any drug they wish for anything, including HCQ for covid.

Pharmacies were limited in filling these prescriptions because people who had prescriptions written for FDA approved conditions were not able to get the drug due to shortages.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < First | < Back | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | Next >

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Breathtaking: New crystalline material absorbs oxygen treesniper119 889 9 10/05/14 06:21 PM
by Legend
* What is the difference between medical oxygen and welding oxygen?
( 1 2 3 all )
pscyanescens 9,865 46 03/12/11 09:39 PM
by Treefeeler
* Oxygen how much do we have left?
( 1 2 3 all )
makaveli8x8 3,264 59 09/11/15 06:30 AM
by fapjack
* Pure Oxygen? DrScott 1,543 14 07/22/10 12:38 AM
by trekie
* Animals That Live Without Oxygen bluecurry 401 1 04/23/10 05:34 PM
by Dangeros65
* Does a empty oxygen cylinder weigh the same full?
( 1 2 3 all )
pscyanescens 15,676 49 01/22/07 05:22 PM
by pscyanescens
* can someone help me understand diffusion of oxygen in air? teamkiller 723 6 11/28/11 02:02 AM
by Gumby
* Oxygen sensor
( 1 2 3 all )
freddurgan 3,972 47 06/29/05 04:07 PM
by vinsue

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
4,767 topic views. 4 members, 53 guests and 82 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.035 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 16 queries.