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Offlinemycopiss
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Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant
    #26898800 - 08/25/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Is liquid culture better than liquid innoculant in any way? It seems it  can likely be stored longer. that is the only advantage I have found.

Which do you prefer and why?

I like LI because you do not have to wait for it to colonize. I will be trying my first run of it shortly.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26898808 - 08/25/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I thought they were synonymous.


--------------------
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That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26898816 - 08/25/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Liquid Innoculant is when you use a sterile blender to blend up the agar in water, then it is ready use immediately to inoculate.  No wait time for colonization.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26898821 - 08/25/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I see, well the con of that would be an additional vector of contam.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineGan
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: The Mycologist] * 1
    #26898882 - 08/25/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It depends what you're using it for. LC is fantastic for expanding a culture substantially. Drop a small wedge and in just a bit you have enough LC to inoculate dozens of jars. So theoretically, you could take one clean culture (say a clone that you love) and expand it into gallons of LC and use it on hundreds of jars.

LI is great for if you have some clean plates and jars you want to inoculate but you dont want to go the a2g route. LI will allow that same plate to inoculate more jars (although not as many as LC) and they will colonize at a faster rate than if you just dropped an agar wedge in since the liquid will coat substantially more grains with the myc.

That's a general version of it imo. Though that doesn't cover everything. So it depends on the situation and what you want to do with a culture.

Also, LC = nutrient broth that supports culture growth. LI = sterile water that serves as a medium to spread mycelium.


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: Gan]
    #26898932 - 08/25/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

is LC faster than LI at colonizing grains?


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InvisibleMunchauzen
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26898989 - 08/25/20 03:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycopiss said:
Liquid Innoculant is when you use a sterile blender to blend up the agar in water, then it is ready use immediately to inoculate.  No wait time for colonization.



no need for a blender :wink:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22833314#22833314


LI usually made to be used immediately. LC is made to be stored.


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: Munchauzen]
    #26899140 - 08/25/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Nice I was just actually reading your tek yesterday.
Do you know how long LC Is good for?

When you say in your tek you transfer LI to receiving jars, you are speaking about grain jars correct? not additional LI jars?


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Invisiblehobbyguy
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss] * 1
    #26899143 - 08/25/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I just used a LC I had in a syringe for 1.5 years in a drawer. I forgot about it! Worked good  :smile:


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OfflineGan
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26899189 - 08/25/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycopiss said:

When you say in your tek you transfer LI to receiving jars, you are speaking about grain jars correct? not additional LI jars?




Yeah to grain jars.


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: Gan]
    #26912330 - 09/01/20 04:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

How many ML of Liquid innoculant per Quart should be used?
I am trying 60cc per 4 quart bag. Did that four days ago. No growth yet.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26912386 - 09/01/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mycopiss said:
How many ML of Liquid innoculant per Quart should be used?
I am trying 60cc per 4 quart bag. Did that four days ago. No growth yet.




Is that a typo? 60cc/ml? or 6cc/ml?

60cc/ml is an insane amount IMO. I use only 3cc/ml LC.

I haven't used an LI before so maybe you need that much? Seems like a lot.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: maxmush]
    #26912402 - 09/01/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

60 cc LI for 4 Quarts of grain.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26912521 - 09/01/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That's a lot.
I use 100 split between 8-10 quart jars


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26912536 - 09/01/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I just had an idea. How would using 2 Agar Trays per 1 quart Liquid innoculant work out? 

Theoretically it would colonize faster correct? But would it be too thick to suck up into an 18gauge syringe? I might give this a shot.

Also how long before you normally see colonization for LI? Using 60cc per 4qts oats I would have thought something would show by day 4.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26912542 - 09/01/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Why do you need a full quart of li?

I pour my li like g2g because i hate syringes.

But yes the more inoculation points the better. Just don't pour too much. Standing water is a no-no

You probably havent seen anytjing yet because you used so much liquid. .


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26912696 - 09/01/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You are doing 8 to 10 CC per 1qt correct? So do you think 40cc would be ok for 4 to 5 quart bags?

Should I have seen some type of growth by day 4? or does it usually take around a week?

In a post somewhere bod mentions you can use 10-15cc Liquid culture per Quart jar. According to what he said 60cc should be ok and should colonize faster.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26912783 - 09/01/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I dunno like i said im not a practicing LI user lol but that just seems like too much liquid. It may not be colonizing because its contaminated? If you dont see anything after 7 days it could be toast. I think less is more in this case. Try 4qt bag with "only" 10cc instead of 60cc and see what happens. I think you'll be surprised.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: maxmush]
    #26912796 - 09/01/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

For me LI always shows up like 50% colonized on day 7, nothing until then so you could still be fine.

I’ve done 20ml per qt jar and they worked out fine. It was a little too much but I was just pouring away to be sure. Did you shake/mix the grain up real well after you poured the LI?


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26913320 - 09/02/20 07:50 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yep I definitely mixed it up well. I previously tried Liquid culture before Liquid innoculant. I attempted 6cc, that was not nearly enough, very slow colonization. 15cc was also very slow.

24 CC LC per 4-5 qt bag is still not fully colonized and its been about 3 weeks.  I might try 30-40cc next. Im tired of messing with this shit I might just stick with grain to grain.


Edited by mycopiss (09/02/20 08:10 AM)


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26913467 - 09/02/20 09:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Something is up with your LC and/or grain prep if you cant get a 6-15cc LC to colonize a 4qt bag.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: maxmush]
    #26913535 - 09/02/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It colonized, just slow for LC.  Might be that my grains were too dry. I had wet bags so started prepping a bit more dry.

What i dont understand is how 6-15cc would colonize a 4qt bag at normal speed, when most people use 6-10 cc on 1qt jars.  Wouldnt I have to increase the amount of LI/LC used when doing 4qt vs 1qt?

How much LC Or LI per 1 qt are you using and what are you using LI or LC?



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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26913577 - 09/02/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

For both LI and LC I use 4-5cc max per qt.  I prep my grain on the dry side for a reason: I don't want jars fostering bacterial growth and stunted by too much moisture.  Going ham on LI/LC is a good way to get slow colonization.  I'd much,  much rather get quick 25-40% colonization and give a shake to finish it up than dump too much liquid in there and watch it crawl.  Both LI and LC work fine.  As was stated by previous posters,  it's all oriented around goals/needs and how comfortable you are with your sterile technique.  I like one time use LI.  Make up enough to noc up  dozen jars from one plate and expand my best performing jars via g2g so I don't waste further jars on shitty, slow growing underperformers.  LC is great too, but I love LI.  I trust it.  Never been screwed over by it.  But yeah... 4cc is my target for either per 1qt. For my half gallons I don't exceed 10cc, etc, etc.


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26913753 - 09/02/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Cool. how long does it take on average for your jars to colonize with 4cc per 1qt?

Do you use the blender method with the oster blender blades that fit on the jar? Or just shake the LI Jar up after placing agar inside? Curious as to which you prefer.

Im definitely taking another look at my grain prep since I had slow colonization at 6cc, 15cc, and 24cc of LC per 4qt bag. I previously used agar and g2g with good results.
Thanks for the info.


Edited by mycopiss (09/02/20 02:11 PM)


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26913872 - 09/02/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I prefer blended li


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26913962 - 09/02/20 03:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mycopiss said:
Cool. how long does it take on average for your jars to colonize with 4cc per 1qt?

Do you use the blender method with the oster blender blades that fit on the jar? Or just shake the LI Jar up after placing agar inside? Curious as to which you prefer.

Im definitely taking another look at my grain prep since I had slow colonization at 6cc, 15cc, and 24cc of LC per 4qt bag. I previously used agar and g2g with good results.
Thanks for the info.



About 8-10 days for quarts depending on the culture.  I reeeeaallly should get an Oster and blend because I could knock a couple days off that...  (I just shake, although I have used a razor and wire attached to a lid in a jar to ghetto blend cornmeal plates and soft agar with great results).  I'm supporting 4 people on one income so I can only buy so many cult supplies per month but I'm snagging a goddamn Oster...) Once I get an idea of how the jars from my LI perform, go heavy on the G2G and it's like lightning.  Grain prep is the difference between night and day.  Also grain choice/inoculation points. 
Quote:

tryptkaloids said:
I prefer blended li




Blended LI is king of the ring.  Fuckin aye.:biker:


--------------------


"First we build the tools, then they build us."

THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26921486 - 09/06/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Damn. the LC I used looked ok, but I think the grain may have been bad. I tried with as little as 5 to 15cc per 4 quarts and still very very slow growth. I was having some contamination issues with other bags and tubs.

I will retry and experiment, some bags will get 4 to 5 cc per 1qt. then some will get 7, some will get 10cc per qt.

My bags which i put 60cc LI per 4qts are not showing much growth yet at day 10, just one little white speck. Too much liquid I suppose.


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26921491 - 09/06/20 04:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Or the grain was too dry.


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 


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Offlinedirtybirdx
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #26921666 - 09/06/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hi pardon me for not reading the whole thread, it may have been mentioned already. 

I came to extol the righteousness of Munchauzen’s Blenderless Liquid Inoculate TEK.

Original and unorthodox, single use, no syringe, and best of all - full colonization (wbs) in 9 days.

Link to TEK in signature 👍


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: dirtybirdx]
    #26922064 - 09/06/20 09:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Im a bit confused at this point.

Everybody says 10 to 15cc LI per quart is too much, but this blenderless Tek says to use 25-50ml per quart.


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Invisiblealaskappalachian
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: mycopiss]
    #26922096 - 09/06/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

25-50ml of water per jar you inoculate with agar to make LI that you will use to make syringe with/pour; not per qt. I see how you might read it that way but that's what Munch is referring to in the tek.


--------------------


"First we build the tools, then they build us."

THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities


Edited by alaskappalachian (09/07/20 02:22 AM)


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Offlinedirtybirdx
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26922298 - 09/07/20 01:35 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The only amount that is too much is the amount that creates a pool at the bottom of your grain jar or bag.  That’s going to be slightly different depending on your grain type and prep.

If it does pool at the bottom, hopefully it doesn’t stall.  If it doesn’t, when you shake at 25-30% the moisture at bottom should evenly distribute and they should recover and colonize well.  Otherwise it’ll just stall and never colonize.

Of course the constant game of lowering risk of contaminations includes the common knowledge that wetter equals higher % of contam.  I have a super low contam rate anyway, so no big deal.  But if you’re having tons of contam problems and using this tek you may want to aim for 10cc or less.


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Edited by dirtybirdx (09/07/20 01:36 AM)


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Offlinemycopiss
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Re: Liquid Culture or Liquid Innoculant [Re: dirtybirdx]
    #26928731 - 09/10/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I had no contam. but very minimal growth after more than 10 days now. very small spots of mycelium that have not grown much.
I also prepped the grain too dry. because I was worried about wet bags I had previously.

This was at 60cc to 4qt grain. There was no pooling but I believe my water to agar ratio for the LI was off. I used 1 agar tray for 500ml LI.
I now realize I should have used 3 trays for this amount after reading the blender LI Tek. He uses 1 Agar tray for every 180ml water.


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