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the man
still masked



Registered: 08/12/99
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cyanofriscosa vs subaeruginosa ?
#26897978 - 08/25/20 12:13 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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hi guys,
many moons ago when subaeruginosa was becoming talked about and friscocyans were just an apple in MJs eye(well not really but ya) someone mentioned possibility. cough allan they may be infact the same?
found an old thread but curious now with more sequencing techniques available to folks what the story is
Thanks folks!
-------------------- And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: cyanofriscosa vs subaeruginosa ? [Re: the man]
#26898029 - 08/25/20 02:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can't find the posts relating to this at the moment, but Alan has stated that the four woodloving species of Psilocybe, namely P. cyanescens, P. allenii ("cyanofriscosa"), P. azurescens and P. subaeruginosa are genetically very closely related, apparently with P. cyanescens and P. subaeruginosa being so close they are nearly conspecific.
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Doug295
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Re: cyanofriscosa vs subaeruginosa ? [Re: Anglerfish]
#26901354 - 08/26/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've researched this topic rather extensively (including the sequencing data), and I am pretty convinced that all of the P. cyanescens group (cyans, allenii, azures, and subs) originate from Australia/Australasia.
The extraordinary phenotype variability (evidence of genetic diversity) of P. subaeruginosa in Australasia is well documented and strongly suggests that it is native to the region. While in North America, you will notice that the cyanescens, allenii and azurescens don't show much phenotype variability, seemingly evidence of a classic Founder Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder_effect)
Further supporting the hypothesis is how these species thrive in wild habitats in Australasia but clearly do not in North America.
IMO they probably came over with Eucalypts and other Australasian flora that were exported in mass back in the 1800's.
Anyways just a theory for now. Would love to see more sequencing data compiled, then we can gain clearer understanding. Cheers,
D
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the man
still masked



Registered: 08/12/99
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Re: cyanofriscosa vs subaeruginosa ? [Re: Doug295]
#26901451 - 08/26/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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cool theory man!! intersting. what about azures in europe . perhaps was WW and larger amount of genes in the population stayed in aussie while elsewhere climactic selections were mad? ie do azures fruit off softwood? subs may grow/fruit on hardwood aswell?
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Doug295
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Re: cyanofriscosa vs subaeruginosa ? [Re: the man]
#26901514 - 08/27/20 01:02 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The man: Yeah, its a pretty accepted deal in biology that geographic origins of species correlate with epicenters of genetic diversity. The Founder Effect occurs when you transplant a species to a geographically distant location and then it spreads in the new location. The transplanted population will exhibit less genetic variation. Unfortunately, not much is known about how fast mushroom species evolve. I suspect that what we see in the morphological differences between azures, cyans and allenii (e.g. cap shape, stipe length, size) probably correlate/reflect other genetically determined variations in cellular/enzymatic metabolism that favor one substrate over another. Its also possible that morphological traits like cap shape might be selected for independently based on environment factors. For example, azures have the most aerodynamic shape of the 3 NA "species", interesting that they inhabit the windiest and stormiest environment. Whereas, the robust cap and short stipes of allenii may provide an advantage in drier areas (e.g. SF East Bay, where they predominate). One thing is for sure, all of the phenotype varations we see in azures, cyans and allenii can all be seen in phenotype variations of Australasian P. subaeruginosa.
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Awake_and_Away
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Re: cyanofriscosa vs subaeruginosa ? [Re: Anglerfish]
#26902932 - 08/27/20 06:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said: I can't find the posts relating to this at the moment, but Alan has stated that the four woodloving species of Psilocybe, namely P. cyanescens, P. allenii ("cyanofriscosa"), P. azurescens and P. subaeruginosa are genetically very closely related, apparently with P. cyanescens and P. subaeruginosa being so close they are nearly conspecific.
http://czechmycology.org/_cmo/CM64207.pdf
Here you go!
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