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Kernale
Big Guy



Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 96
Loc: Bikini Bottom
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26898462 - 08/25/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I see, good to know. I guess its probably a good idea to get 99.99% just in case though. Wouldn't want to accidentally contaminate a master or something important.
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mushboy
modboy



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Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: Kernale]
#26898729 - 08/25/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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99.99 is clearly better because 99.97 let's thru more particles per 10,000.
A room can have millions and millions of particles so that .02 might seem like a insignificant amount but its actually like a ten fold increase.
Someone more versed in hoods could explain it better but in noob terms 99.97 will let thru thousands apon thousands of more spores than 99.99 you want your flow to be sterile air. Not .97 sterile
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dirtybirdx
getting better

Registered: 07/28/20
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: mushboy]
#26898731 - 08/25/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Looks amazing, are you loving it?
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Kernale
Big Guy



Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 96
Loc: Bikini Bottom
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: mushboy]
#26898787 - 08/25/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I already said that in an earlier post, so don't worry I'm not that stupid. Theoretically if there is a billion particles, that .02% is 200,000 particles. But this guy seems to say its not that simple. I don't know either way so I would get 99.99% just to be safe now that I've thought about it.
Rereading this it comes off a little condescending, I didn't intend that. Just had an argument with someone so I'm a little edgy haha.
Edited by Kernale (08/25/20 01:23 PM)
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dfwerydfhg
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/20
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: Kernale]
#26899042 - 08/25/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, if every particle that you are interested in filtering is 0.3 microns, clearly the 99.99 is better. Nobody is disputing that. Is that your use case?
If not, do you have filtration efficiency data at the sizes you are interested in filtering? Read this: https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/what-hepa-filter-1
0.3 micron is worst case. Smaller, or larger, particles will be filtered with higher efficiency. That 99.97 @ 0.3 micron might very well be 99.99+ @ 5 micron, which is closer to what you actually care about. What's your lower bound on acceptable contamination? Don't know? Then the difference here probably doesn't matter to you. That said, of course, if you can afford it, get the 99.99 one. But the difference between them is likely to be complete statistical noise, unless variances in your sterile technique are already well below the difference that the filter would make.
To summarize: I'm not claiming that the 99.97 is better. I'm not claiming that the 99.99 is not "worth it" (whatever that means for you). I'm not claiming they're 100% equivalent either. What I am claiming is that there's not enough data to make that call. And variances in how you situate it, work with it, clean around it, and how clean you do the rest of your work, will almost certainly make more difference to your results than the difference between 99.97 and 99.99 (@ 0.3 micron).
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: dfwerydfhg] 1
#26899156 - 08/25/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Yea the difference is big. Bigger than the 0.02 makes it seem.
99.97 filters get scanned over the entire surface. 0.03 can pass thru
On a 99.99 they scan the filter if a leak is defected at all (most likely to penetrate particle size is used) then the area that leaks is re-tested and has to pass 99.99. Most of the filter is well over 99.99% only the very worst spot on a 99.99 if it exists will let particles pass and at less than 0.01 percent.
On a 99.97 filter one area could leak 5% or 10% for instance if the rest of the filter was good and overall captures 99.97.
On a 99.99 even the smallest spot on the filter has to beat 99.99 retention. The filter fails if any spot individually fails. 99.97 filters are basically shit in comparison. Completely different applications and uses.
I think plenty of data is available to make an informed decision that 99.99 is vastly superior
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Kernale
Big Guy



Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 96
Loc: Bikini Bottom
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: mushboy]
#26899231 - 08/25/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If bod said it I believe it. Seems like hes always right and I'm not smart enough to contradict him.
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dothedew69
Relearning



Registered: 08/27/08
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: Kernale] 1
#26899840 - 08/26/20 03:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have been trying to hunt down my filter and I think you saved me. I first was going to go through damnfilter for a 24x18x6 that was 99.99 for 177 but their shipping was $100! The price for the 99.97 is amazing but I’m going to pony up for the 99.99 metal frame. I contacted glassfloss to see if they could make a particleboard same size and 99.99 and how long would it take. But the more I think about it, $70 for 99.99 and a metal frame it should be a no brained right? And I can use my amazon credit card with amazon pay. Someone tell me to do it lol. I’ve been waiting to hear back from Koch as they completely turned off their phone system and a customer service rep promised me should would give me a shipping quote yesterday after I found out how ridiculous damnfilter shipping was. Anyone have experience with FedEx shipping these super delicate filters? I was going to choose the ground option but is there any difference in the 3 day shipping in terms of handling. I need my last piece of the puzzle. I already started building my box, I have my Dayton 1TDT8 ready to be wired. I’m waiting on agar until I get this flow hood lol.
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Kernale
Big Guy



Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 96
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: dothedew69]
#26900329 - 08/26/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The only thing is spycor says it takes 15-20 business days to ship, but if you're a patient man I think it's worth the wait. I wouldn't worry too much about shipping, if its fragile enough to break in transit I would assume they package it well, but then again who knows haha. They seem professional though so if there is breakage I feel like they would accommodate you.
I say pull the trigger, I haven't seen a better price yet. I would buy it too but with me being laid off due to covid I can't afford it. 
They also have a 24x24 for $18 more if you prefer that size.
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Edited by Kernale (08/26/20 11:18 AM)
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dfwerydfhg
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/20
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: mushboy]
#26902204 - 08/27/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Yea the difference is big. Bigger than the 0.02 makes it seem.
99.97 filters get scanned over the entire surface. 0.03 can pass thru
On a 99.99 they scan the filter if a leak is defected at all (most likely to penetrate particle size is used) then the area that leaks is re-tested and has to pass 99.99. Most of the filter is well over 99.99% only the very worst spot on a 99.99 if it exists will let particles pass and at less than 0.01 percent.
On a 99.97 filter one area could leak 5% or 10% for instance if the rest of the filter was good and overall captures 99.97.
On a 99.99 even the smallest spot on the filter has to beat 99.99 retention. The filter fails if any spot individually fails. 99.97 filters are basically shit in comparison. Completely different applications and uses.
I think plenty of data is available to make an informed decision that 99.99 is vastly superior
That's great info, hadn't seen that before. Clearly 99.99 is the go if that's the case! I wonder why they don't list a different certification or test procedure if one is allowed to be way off spec in some areas. Kind of an "on average the river is shallow enough to cross" situation.
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dothedew69
Relearning



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 624
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: Kernale]
#26902287 - 08/27/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kernale said: The only thing is spycor says it takes 15-20 business days to ship, but if you're a patient man I think it's worth the wait. I wouldn't worry too much about shipping, if its fragile enough to break in transit I would assume they package it well, but then again who knows haha. They seem professional though so if there is breakage I feel like they would accommodate you.
I say pull the trigger, I haven't seen a better price yet. I would buy it too but with me being laid off due to covid I can't afford it. 
They also have a 24x24 for $18 more if you prefer that size.
I heavily considered going the 24x24 roughy but I thought about what I actually needed the 24” for and mostly it’s for grain bags. I’m going to simply be doing jars and even if I do grain to grain I still have plenty of room to do so. My main reason is for agar. I started working with LC again and then I’m going to be testing that lc on agar. If the LC is good time to inject. But at the same time I’ll be using agar to cut strong growth into grain jars as well. I took a tape measure out and 18” is pretty darn tall. The biggest thing was the blower selection and the fact if you use variable speed control there’s a very high chance of blowing the motor per Grainger. So after calling Grainger we decided the 1TDT8 was perfect and at a $219 price tag. I found it on Amazon and signed up for a credit card and got a $60 off gift card so I paid like $160 for my blower. There are some other direct line blowers that would work perfect but could only be purchased through Grainger like the 7C039, I mean it was perfect for running 2-3 pre filters but it was also $350+ which I would’ve had to wait a few paychecks. Something I wanted to do now and be super impulsive. 15-20 days isn’t long, I’m working on my agar techniques in an SAB, got a 500 pack of dishes lol. Using the cut Syrian wrap to close them.
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Kernale
Big Guy



Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 96
Loc: Bikini Bottom
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: dothedew69]
#26902400 - 08/27/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's pretty much what I would want it for. I do agar in my SAB right now and my LC tends to be clean (clean agar transfer to LC jar), but there are times when it's not; having a flowhood would seriously help me, even if its just to increase my equipment confidence.
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dothedew69
Relearning



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 624
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: Kernale]
#26902791 - 08/27/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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24x18x6 through Spycor $160 shipped have to wait a couple weeks, find a used blower or bit the bullet by going to Grainger for an 1TDT8 you will be under $400. But considering how much flow hood time I’ll be using this will literally be a one time investment. Gotta think about it like that and the total reduction of headaches for contamination. If it contaminates you know that it’s you and not the air so you can examine what you are doing wrong as well as getting the advice from the experienced cultivators.
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Kernale
Big Guy



Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 96
Loc: Bikini Bottom
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: dothedew69]
#26902822 - 08/27/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I might just order the filter now and when I get some more money coming in I could order the rest. I just don't want to spend money if I don't have to right now. But thanks for getting them to make that particle board one available online, if I'm correct it wasn't there before. That's a damn good value. Its definitely a worthwhile investment for me because sometimes I'm too lazy to set up the SAB and work doesn't get done. Having a hood would just make it so easy to start work that I would have no excuse haha.
I feel like we've kind of hijacked this thread , my bad guys.
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dothedew69
Relearning



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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: Kernale] 1
#26902958 - 08/27/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Little bit haha but I’m glad I could help you out!
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juvec
Stranger
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete *DELETED* [Re: dothedew69]
#26903188 - 08/27/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by juvec
Reason for deletion: S
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dothedew69
Relearning



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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: juvec]
#26903235 - 08/27/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not sure on that one never seen that before. Let me do some research for hepa filter overseas. It’s definitely harder to find vs the US. Where do you live?
Edit: try contacting these guys they may be able to make you a custom filter. https://www.apcfilters.com/hepa-filter/ Make sure it’s a box filter 24x24x6 or 24x18x6 99.99% efficiency. This website shows various different manufacturers you can check out: https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/top-suppliers/hepa-filters-manufacturers-and-suppliers/ These guys are international but you will pay a small premium: https://www.aafintl.com/en/commercial/browse-products/commercial/hepa-ulpa-filters
Sorry it’s hard. For fun try contacting Spyrcor.com and see if they will ship outside of the United States. Can’t hurt to ask, filters are great prices you will just have to pay a premium for shipping.
Edited by dothedew69 (08/27/20 09:44 PM)
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Kernale
Big Guy



Registered: 07/08/20
Posts: 96
Loc: Bikini Bottom
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: juvec]
#26903277 - 08/27/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
juvec said: Great job man.
Really want to make one myself, but having hard time finding filters in europe.
Stumbled across this complete package though, anyone care to let me know if it'll work? Looks like it to me:
pullman-ermator.se/en-GB/product/a1000/
That filter is H13, which is 99.95% filtration at .3 microns. It's not up to par for this type of work as far as I understand. You want 99.99%.
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juvec
Stranger
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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: dothedew69]
#26903302 - 08/27/20 10:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dothedew69 said: Not sure on that one never seen that before. Let me do some research for hepa filter overseas. It’s definitely harder to find vs the US. Where do you live?
Edit: try contacting these guys they may be able to make you a custom filter. https://www.apcfilters.com/hepa-filter/ Make sure it’s a box filter 24x24x6 or 24x18x6 99.99% efficiency. This website shows various different manufacturers you can check out: https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/top-suppliers/hepa-filters-manufacturers-and-suppliers/ These guys are international but you will pay a small premium: https://www.aafintl.com/en/commercial/browse-products/commercial/hepa-ulpa-filters
Sorry it’s hard. For fun try contacting Spyrcor.com and see if they will ship outside of the United States. Can’t hurt to ask, filters are great prices you will just have to pay a premium for shipping.
Thanks for replying and doing research, been googling myself to death with little luck. I live in Scandinavia. Can't even find anything in the UK so far.
Looks like i'll end up importing it. Haven't found a single European supplier, neither for the filter OR the blower motor.
Import-tax will probably be the end of my wallet though. Plus covid mail-delay, wohoo.
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dothedew69
Relearning



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Re: My Flowhood is Complete [Re: juvec]
#26903318 - 08/27/20 11:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Try Spycor I promise, their phone line is really iffy it cut outs a lot but their email support is fast and amazing. They may be able to hook you up. Same with Grainger. Also you can check eBay for Europe? Sorry not familiar where your country lies, you can find blowers on eBay and you must have an amazon setup too. First figure out your filter situation and then I’ll get you hooked up with a blower. Heck call hvac and furnace repair companies, stove repair shops, you may be able to source a used blower locally dirt cheap and we could make it work. But yeah def try Spycor they customer service has made me their number one fan. They bent over backwards to get me a filter. If not they may be able to help you locate something locally for you. Finding the filter is the hard part, getting a reasonable priced blower I guarantee I can get you one. I’m a frugal bastard so I try to save as much as possible. I’ve bought a shit ton of grow supplies and I’m under $800 and that’s including building a work station in my garage, 250lbs of hpoo 300lbs of grain, 60 quart jars, 2 pressure cookers, two 65k BTU burners, 23 quart as pot, 15 totes, and random supplies galore. I mean I have bins and bins full of shit. It can be done just gotta be smart about it.
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