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OfflineSonicTitan
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26894082 - 08/22/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You're an asshole


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"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."



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Onlinekoods
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26894087 - 08/22/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

She’s a nurse working in the hospital where she’s being treated.

You do understand that something like 80% of adults have at least one condition that puts them at high risk for more serious covid infections. There are likely risks we are still not aware of, and it almost certainly the case that there are genetic, inherited predispositions that put you at higher risk, like your blood type.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Onlinekoods
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: SonicTitan]
    #26894090 - 08/22/20 06:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SonicTitan said:
You're an asshole



He really is a loathsome person.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26894094 - 08/22/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

budmanman said:
You will find that a lot of if not all of the damage covid can do, the flu also does.




No. The flu doesn’t cause clotting problems. A significant portion of covid patients have clotting issues.

.


this is also true.

Quote:

HamHead said:
:homerdrool:

Corticosteroids

Cortisol and steroids.

Why use an immunosuppressive drug?

Shouldn't a drug which boost an immune system be a better choice?

Like high dose IV vitamin C. A powerful antioxidant which is safe at high doses.

Care to get into what happens when cells become saturated with vitamin C?



Before you get the infection, sure you wanna have a healthy active immune system. Once people are already infected, a lot of the problems result FROM the immune response. These inflammatory chemicals are released as a generalized response by the innate immune system to make an area of active infection "more accessible" to oxygen, nutrients, and other players in the immune response. But the inflammation chemicals interact with your own tissues and when they do that too much and for too long, it damages those tissues. This is what it means to have myocarditis. Your heart muscle is literally "inflammed" from being bombarded by inflammatory signals from the immune system. These inflammatory signals also damage the lungs, kidneys, liver, gi tract etc. So for a person with an already established infection, the immunosuppressant drugs are given to dampen down that innate immune response. At that point you are depending on the b cell antibodies to hopefully take out the infection while you try to prevent the immune system from doing too much collateral damage in the process


Btw vitamin c may work for covid by a totally different mechanism than boosting the immune system. It metabolizes into hydrogen peroxide in large doses and its possible that it is just killing viral particles directly. Still unclear.

Read those pages i sent you. Theyre a little dense but if you need me to clear anything up or have questions i am happy to do so. Just so you know APC means antigen presenting cell and MHC means major histocompatibility complex. I think what i posted assumed the reader already knew those abbreviations from previous chapters


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: koods]
    #26894096 - 08/22/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SonicTitan said:
You're an asshole




Excuse me?

Is it my fault she made poor diet choices? Or, are we going to blame her parents for feeding her a poor diet growing up?

My mom and dad owned a health food store when I was born. I remember running around at three years old, sucking on frozen fruit/vegie popsicles. My family has been health consious and none of us are even close to being considered obese.

Quote:

koods said:
She’s a nurse working in the hospital where she’s being treated.

You do understand that something like 80% of adults have at least one condition that puts them at high risk for more serious covid infections. There are likely risks we are still not aware of, and it almost certainly the case that there are genetic, inherited predispositions that put you at higher risk, like your blood type.




And you do realize that a high percentage of people recover from covid with mild symptoms, similar to a cold, but not a flu.

Because flu kills children, covid is not.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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Onlinekoods
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26894102 - 08/22/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

She seems like a nice woman who got infected at her job, helping sick people and all you see is a fatty. You’re a fucked up person.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26894104 - 08/22/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

the whole idea of "boosting the immune system" is a little oversimplified anyway. some people might say that zinc "boosts the immune system" but as I understand it, in reality it just has some antiviral properties of its own that make it easier for your natural interferons and such to get the job done with less work. yeah being deficienct in any nutrient, zinc included, probably interferes with an optimal immune response in other ways, but it isn't as if taking 500% as much zinc as you need makes you immune cells start running faster or blasting harder

with vitamin C i believe the way it "boosts your immune system" is that it gets depleted very quickly during the immune response, so replenishing it may may a sustained response more effective. but again it's not even clear that this is the reason why it may help people already infected with covid.

I personally take both 1000mg of vitamin C and 30mg of zinc daily and I wouldn't be shocked if it did help a little bit, should i happen to be truly exposed to covid (as in, the virus gets into my body), but I definitely don't think it makes me bulletproof. I still wear my mask and wash my hands like a madman


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26894107 - 08/22/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-C

Summary
Vitamin C, also known as L-ascorbic acid, is a water-soluble vitamin. Unlike most mammals and other animals, humans do not have the ability to synthesize vitamin C and must obtain it from the diet. (More information)
Vitamin C is an essential cofactor in numerous enzymatic reactions, e.g., in the biosynthesis of collagen, carnitine, and neuropeptides, and in the regulation of gene expression. It is also a potent antioxidant. (More information)
Prospective cohort studies indicate that higher vitamin C status, assessed by measuring circulating vitamin C, is associated with lower risks of hypertension, coronary heart disease, and stroke. (More information)
There is some evidence to suggest that vitamin C may be a useful adjunct to conventional medical practice to reduce myocardial injury and arrhythmia following a cardiac procedure or surgery in patients with cardiovascular disease. (More information)
There are insufficient data to suggest a link between vitamin C status and the risk of developing a given type of cancer. Most observational studies examining vitamin C intake in relation to cancer incidence have found no association. Randomized controlled trials have reported no effect of vitamin C supplementation on cancer risk. (More information)
Current evidence of the efficacy of intravenous vitamin C in cancer patients is limited to observational studies, uncontrolled interventions, and case reports. There is a need for large, longer-duration phase II clinical trials that test the efficacy of intravenous vitamin C in cancer progression and overall survival. (More information)
Overall, regular use of vitamin C supplements shortens the duration of the common cold but does not reduce the risk of becoming ill. Taking supplements once cold symptoms have already begun has no proven benefits. (More information)
Vitamin C supplements are available in many forms, but there is little scientific evidence that any one form is better absorbed or more effective than another. (More information)
There is no scientific evidence that large amounts of vitamin C (up to 10 grams [g]/day in adults) exert any adverse or toxic effects. An upper intake level of 2 g/day is recommended in order to prevent some adults from experiencing diarrhea and gastrointestinal disturbances. (More information)
Supplemental vitamin C increases urinary oxalate concentrations, but whether an increase in urinary oxalate elevates the risk for kidney stones is not yet known. Those predisposed for kidney stone formation may consider avoiding high-dose (≥1 g/day) vitamin C supplementation.

Role in immunity
Vitamin C affects several components of the human immune system in vitro; for example, vitamin C has been shown to stimulate both the production (5-9) and function (10, 11) of leukocytes (white blood cells), especially neutrophils, lymphocytes, and phagocytes. Specific measures of functions stimulated by vitamin C include cellular motility (10), chemotaxis (10, 11), and phagocytosis (11). Neutrophils, mononuclear phagocytes, and lymphocytes accumulate vitamin C to high concentrations, which can protect these cell types from oxidative damage (12-14). In response to invading microorganisms, phagocytic leukocytes release non-specific toxins, such as superoxide radicals, hypochlorous acid ("bleach"), and peroxynitrite; these reactive oxygen species kill pathogens and, in the process, can damage the leukocytes themselves (15). Vitamin C, through its antioxidant functions, has been shown to protect leukocytes from self-inflicted oxidative damage (14). Phagocytic leukocytes also produce and release cytokines, including interferons, which have antiviral activity (16). Vitamin C has been shown to increase interferon production in vitro (17). Additional studies have reported that vitamin C enhances the chemotactic and microbial killing capacities of neutrophils and stimulates the proliferation and differentiation of B- and T-lymphocytes (reviewed in 18).

It is widely thought by the general public that vitamin C boosts immune function, yet human studies published to date are conflicting. Disparate results are likely due to study design issues, often linked to a lack of understanding of vitamin C pharmacokinetics and requirements (19, 20).

Finally, vitamin C increases the bioavailability of iron from foods by enhancing intestinal absorption of non-heme iron

Edit.

I'm up to 14,000-16,000mg vitamin C per day.

What's up? My vitamin C dosages.

:puddingpop:


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Edited by HamHead (08/22/20 07:17 PM)


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,982
Loc: PNW
Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #26894131 - 08/22/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
the whole idea of "boosting the immune system" is a little oversimplified anyway. some people might say that zinc "boosts the immune system" but as I understand it, in reality it just has some antiviral properties of its own that make it easier for your natural interferons and such to get the job done with less work. yeah being deficienct in any nutrient, zinc included, probably interferes with an optimal immune response in other ways, but it isn't as if taking 500% as much zinc as you need makes you immune cells start running faster or blasting harder

with vitamin C i believe the way it "boosts your immune system" is that it gets depleted very quickly during the immune response, so replenishing it may may a sustained response more effective. but again it's not even clear that this is the reason why it may help people already infected with covid.

I personally take both 1000mg of vitamin C and 30mg of zinc daily and I wouldn't be shocked if it did help a little bit, should i happen to be truly exposed to covid (as in, the virus gets into my body), but I definitely don't think it makes me bulletproof. I still wear my mask and wash my hands like a madman




You probably already caught and recovered from it already and don't even know it.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,982
Loc: PNW
Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: budmanman]
    #26894135 - 08/22/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I get all the vitamin C I need from ketchup.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: budmanman]
    #26894138 - 08/22/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
You probably already caught and recovered from it already and don't even know it.




:poast:


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26894141 - 08/22/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

yeah you definitely won't find me taking 14grams of the stuff per day. a single gram is already way may more than you need. if it does turn out to be case that very excessive amounts metabolize into hydrogen peroxide- which, I'm no biochemist, but as far as I can tell by looking around online, it is-, then while that might be beneficial for knocking out nasty invaders, it's probably also damaging to your own tisues. hydrogen peroxide is one of those "reactive oxygen species"- the ones you take "antioxidants" to help dampen down. So while vitamin C may improve antioxidant function at low levels, it may become a pro-oxidant at higher levels


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: budmanman]
    #26894142 - 08/22/20 07:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:


You probably already caught and recovered from it already and don't even know it.



I'd love to think that, but we all get tested weekly :shrug: I am always negative

I may have some immunity conferred by previous coronavirus infections of a different kind but it's not a gamble I'm willing to take. even people who have definitely gotten it and recovered still wear a mask on the unit. I mean they kinda have to but I think they would anyway. all the ones I know would agree that wearing a mask is less uncomfortable than being sick with covid19


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Offlinegopher
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: morrowasted]
    #26894144 - 08/22/20 07:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

you have to let them stick a q-tip up your nose every week?, they get their rocks off tickling your brain probably


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: gopher]
    #26894147 - 08/22/20 07:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
you have to let them stick a q-tip up your nose every week?, they get their rocks off tickling your brain probably



I actually kind of enjoy the sensation now. it's a very unique sensation. it is very unsettling the first time you feel it, and certainly not comfortable. but it's a weird sensation. kind of like some other things people on this forum seem to like doing that would make a lot of people uncomfortable, especially the first time

i swab other people too lol.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: morrowasted]
    #26894154 - 08/22/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Your hospital is still doing the deep swab? I participated in the covid 19 research and they proved that just swabbing the inside of the nose is just as effective. My entire state doesn't do the deep swab anymore and it was suppose to be this way nation wide by now.

EDIT:

I'll add that the tongue swab was an absolute failure.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


Edited by budmanman (08/22/20 07:39 PM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: budmanman]
    #26894165 - 08/22/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

we still do the nasopharyngeal swab, yes. we originally would put it in there for like 10 seconds, and swab both sides of the nose. it was not fun. now we are being told you can just stick it in and pull it out immediately while twisting. but the idea is still to get a quick sample from back here. no matter how fast you do it, it feels funny, just depends on how long it feels funny for



I honestly couldn't tell you whether or not it's true that nasal swabs are "just as effective" for the kind of tests that we run. different hospitals have different kinds of labs/equipment/etc, might make a difference in sensitivity, I don't know. if they were to come to us and say "ok guys you dont have to go all the way in anymore" i would just listen and do it. so far that hasnt happened


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: morrowasted]
    #26894168 - 08/22/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well I don't know why not, the study I was in found that the nasopharyngeal swab can be done just inside the nose, and that even a cotton swab was just about as effective.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: morrowasted]
    #26894177 - 08/22/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

yeah I honestly dont know

link me though bro, is this what you're looking at? https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/04/17/new-swab-for-covid-19-test-doesnt-need-to-be-shove.aspx

I dont know if this "synthetic spun swab" is the same kind we use? the article makes it a little unclear because it says "new swab" but then in the article it refers to it as "the swab". is "the swab" a "new" specific swab?


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: morrowasted]
    #26894182 - 08/22/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt it is more expensive, the study allowed them to mail out mass test kits to peoples homes, and to have drive through testing where the person who was going to be tested could easily self administer it themselves. That was the point of that part of the study. I mean this study was done right when the virus first hit. I caught this pussy ass virus right when cases starting blowing up in the USA for the first time.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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