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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: Ice9]
    #26893490 - 08/22/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've got nothing going on today, so I'll go ahead and dig thorough yours and try to get to a bottom.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26883179#26883179

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC496969/

How do you think they found MF in infant brains...Necropsy of course.  So safe to assume so secere illness/TBI/SIDS were involved in all infant deaths, with possible disruption of the BBB, not to mention the MFs were mostly found in the geminal matrix zone and and other parts that make up the BBB, very few were found beyond the last layer of the BBB.

I posted showing how ingested aluminum is processed differently than injected aluminum.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26857959#26857959

I'll leave this and ask a simple question:

article

Question: Do you understand the difference between a journal impact score,  the allegations of pay for publication out other major publishers (Elsevier) and how trust worthy information is? Quick follow up (I know that's 2 questions) What's the difference between a double blind placebo controlled study and an epidemiological study?

I have I guess, unless you google, you have no idea.

I pointed out how zinc is left out of this trial. I suppose that's one they can go back and try again, considering how much evidence there is on zinc deficiencies. A goal that has not moved. Zinc is key. HCQ helps cells absorb zinc. Also, dosages were called into question, being higher than recommended malaria treatments.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26852817#26852817

For the morons in the groups perusal here is an https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014NEJM study published July 23.

Learn the difference between tier 1,2  journals and pay to play bullshit with bad science. If that's too much, stick to NEJM, Nature, Science, Lancet, and JAMA.  Not that they don't fuck up (looking at you lancet) but they offer retractions and explanations of retractions.

This one looks at people already hospitalized using HCQ. My goal post has been on early treatments, with zinc. HCQ is not effective at treating those in late stage infection.
------

Right, so it has got to be one of these.

Again, my goal post have remained in place. It's not my fault there are studies done which do not encompass those aspects which are key to success. Late treatment, high doses, lack of zinc. I have those posted and cemented and they will not move.

Ask your friends why vitamins, diet, lifestyle choices were hardly talked about on mainstream media outlets, please.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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OfflineIce9
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Registered: 03/20/14
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26893582 - 08/22/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/adjunctive-therapy/zinc/

They were treated with zinc.

Edit: it's not a good study, but also viral infection hospitalization one of the first things given is zinc, so there is no reason to believe these patients in your study were denied normal treatment for viral infection and also included HCQ and Aziyromicin.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


Edited by Ice9 (08/22/20 01:12 PM)


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: Ice9]
    #26893644 - 08/22/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/adjunctive-therapy/zinc/

They were treated with zinc.

Edit: it's not a good study, but also viral infection hospitalization one of the first things given is zinc, so there is no reason to believe these patients in your study were denied normal treatment for viral infection and also included HCQ and Aziyromicin.




Zinc Supplementation and COVID-19
Last Updated: July 17, 2020

Recommendations
There are insufficient data to recommend either for or against the use of zinc for the treatment of COVID-19.
The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends against using zinc supplementation above the recommended dietary allowance for the prevention of COVID-19, except in a clinical trial (BIII).
Rationale
Increased intracellular zinc concentrations efficiently impair replication in a number of RNA viruses.1 Zinc has been shown to enhance cytotoxicity and induce apoptosis when used in vitro with a zinc ionophore (e.g., chloroquine). Chloroquine has also been shown to enhance intracellular zinc uptake in vitro.2 The relationship between zinc and COVID-19, including how zinc deficiency affects the severity of COVID-19 and whether zinc supplements can improve clinical outcomes, is currently under investigation.3 Zinc levels are difficult to measure accurately, as zinc is distributed as a component of various proteins and nucleic acids.4

Zinc supplementation alone or in combination with hydroxychloroquine for prevention and treatment of COVID-19 is currently being evaluated in clinical trials. The optimal dose of zinc for the treatment of COVID-19 is not established. The recommended dietary allowance for elemental zinc is 11 mg daily for men and 8 mg for nonpregnant women.5 The doses used in registered clinical trials for COVID-19 vary between studies, with a maximum dose of zinc sulfate 220 mg (50 mg of elemental zinc) twice daily.

Long-term zinc supplementation can cause copper deficiency with subsequent reversible hematologic defects (i.e., anemia, leukopenia) and potentially irreversible neurologic manifestations (i.e., myelopathy, paresthesia, ataxia, spasticity).6,7 Zinc supplementation for a duration as short as 10 months has been associated with copper deficiency.8 In addition, oral zinc can decrease the absorption of medications that bind with polyvalent cations.5 Because zinc has not been shown to have clinical benefit and may be harmful, the Panel recommends against using zinc supplementation above the recommended dietary allowance for the prevention of COVID-19, except in a clinical trial (BIII).

Clinical Data
Retrospective Study of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin With or Without Zinc
This study has not been peer-reviewed.

A retrospective observational study compared zinc supplementation to no zinc supplementation in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 who received hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin from March 2 to April 5, 2020. On March 25, the institution’s standard of care was updated to include supplementation with zinc sulfate 220 mg orally twice daily. Patients who received any other investigational therapies were excluded. Only patients who were discharged from the hospital, transferred to hospice, or died were included in the analysis. Outcome measures included duration of hospital stay, duration of mechanical ventilation, maximum oxygen flow rate, average oxygen flow rate, average FiO2, maximum FiO2, admission to the intensive care unit (ICU), duration of ICU stay, death or transfer to hospice, need for intubation, and discharge destination.9

Results
A total of 932 patients were included in this analysis; 411 patients received zinc, and 521 did not.
The two groups had similar demographic characteristics.
Patients who received zinc had higher absolute lymphocyte count and lower troponin and procalcitonin levels at baseline than those who did not receive zinc.
In univariate analysis, no differences were observed between the two groups in duration of hospital stay, duration of mechanical ventilation, maximum oxygen flow rate, average oxygen flow rate, or average FiO2.
In bivariate logistic regression analysis, zinc supplementation was associated with a decreased mortality rate or rate of transfer to hospice; however, the association with a decreased mortality rate was no longer significant when analysis was limited to patients who were treated in the ICU.
Limitations
This is a retrospective review; patients were not randomized to receive zinc therapy or to receive no zinc. The statistical methods used do not account for confounding variables or patient differences between those who were treated with zinc sulfate and those who were not, with one exception: the authors attempted to account for the change in the institution’s treatment standards by using a logistic regression analysis for patients admitted after March 25.
The preprint did not include specific details on the timing of zinc initiation, and the patients’ clinical statuses at the start of therapy were not reported.
The preprint also did not specify how many patients did or did not receive zinc before and after the institution’s treatment standards changed to include zinc sulfate on March 25. The authors used a logistic regression analysis to account for this, as discussed above.
Only patients who died or who were transferred to hospice or discharged are included in the analyses. The exclusion of those who were still hospitalized as of April 5 makes it difficult to compare the clinical outcomes for those who received or did not receive zinc sulfate.
Given the nature of the study design and its limitations, the authors do not recommend using this study to guide clinical practice.

This article contradicts its self, saying in one sentence, "Increased intracellular zinc concentrations efficiently impair replication in a number of RNA viruses" and in another, ecause zinc has not been shown to have clinical benefit and may be harmful", while showing how long term use of zinc causes harm, while Covid treatments are 5 days of 220mg zinc.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: Ice9]
    #26893648 - 08/22/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Unless they are put on a continuous zinc enema with a zinc IV and a feeding tube delivering pure liquid zinc, they're just not using enough zinc man :ifyoucanawe:


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: feevers]
    #26893649 - 08/22/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Unless they are put on a continuous zinc enema with a zinc IV and a feeding tube delivering pure liquid zinc, they're just not using enough zinc man :ifyoucanawe:




Thanks for your contributions.

Useless.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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OfflineIce9
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Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,319
Loc: daterapeville,USA
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26893654 - 08/22/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

This article contradicts its self, saying in one sentence, "Increased intracellular zinc concentrations efficiently impair replication in a number of RNA viruses"

If you knew what the hell you were talking about this common knowledge, but the corona virus is a Novel virus, thus common known truths may of may not apply to it.  That's why the research each and every virus as an individual disease stat, and don't just say oh, this is a positive sense virus, and thus can be treated as all positive sense virus... it doesn't work that way, what may be beneficial too a related virus for treatment may be deleterious in the other virus with regards to treatment... so no they didn't contradict themselves, you just don't know nearly as much as you think you do.  Think back to the Dunning-Kruger graph I posted of you and where you stand on that curve.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: Ice9]
    #26893668 - 08/22/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Please don't get me started on novel viruses.

Each mutation creates a novel virus. All it takes is a single piece of genetic code, a single letter to change within that sequence, for a novel virus to be generated.

This is why other common coronaviruse colds continue to circulate, because they mutate quickly. It's another reason why there are no coronavirus vaccines, they mutate so fast, similar to flu, having many strains.

How many flu strains are there?

Each one was novel until natural herd immunity was achieved, which with flu being so infections, doesn't take long.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26893669 - 08/22/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hammy, how are those diet, vitamin levels and lifestyle choices working out for all the elite athletes who are being found with long-term and possibly permanent heart and lung damage after covid? How do you think many other healthy people, who have this same post-covid damage but don't push themselves to the levels where the damage will be immediately apparent, will fare as issues they may have go far longer before being diagnosed and treated?

You seem to have this need to simplify everything and comfort yourself by pretending to know some sort of truth, while the people with actual knowledge in the areas you choose to argue about have to endlessly point out where you're going wrong and your lack of basic understanding.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: Ice9]
    #26893677 - 08/22/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You realize that ham use to be scared of the virus initially and changed his stance right?


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: feevers]
    #26893681 - 08/22/20 02:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Hammy, how are those diet, vitamin levels and lifestyle choices working out for all the elite athletes who are being found with long-term and possibly permanent heart and lung damage after covid? How do you think many other healthy people, who have this same post-covid damage but don't push themselves to the levels where the damage will be immediately apparent, will fare as issues they may have go far longer before being diagnosed and treated?

You seem to have this need to simplify everything and comfort yourself by pretending to know some sort of truth, while the people with actual knowledge in the areas you choose to argue about have to endlessly point out where you're going wrong and your lack of basic understanding.




Sorry, you're going to have to provide links. I don't trust a word you say.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: budmanman] * 1
    #26893682 - 08/22/20 02:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

He changed his stance right around the time that he was raging about how othet people got to stay home and he didn't, and that nurses and doctors were getting all the praise and not weed worker like him.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: feevers]
    #26893686 - 08/22/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well I changed my stance after my wife and I caught it. Couldn't believe I was scared of a mild cold.

Now over half my family has had it and only 1 person had something semi serious I s happen which was clotting over a month after and its possible it wasn't even the virus that caused it.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
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Loc: PNW
Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: budmanman]
    #26893704 - 08/22/20 02:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'll never forget being in the covid 19 research study sitting in the waiting room surounded by covid 19 patients and we are all sitting there quietly not even coughing waiting our turn lol.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


Edited by budmanman (08/22/20 02:40 PM)


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: feevers]
    #26893716 - 08/22/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29703982/georgia-state-qb-mikele-colasurdo-diagnosed-heart-condition-linked-covid-19

https://abc7.com/coronavirus-survivor-athlete-covid-19-in-shape/6289456/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/02/red-sox-ace-27-wont-pitch-this-season-because-heart-ailment-linked-covid-19/

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29633697/heart-condition-linked-covid-19-fuels-power-5-concern-season-viability

"Myocarditis, inflammation of the heart muscle, has been found in at least five Big Ten Conference athletes and among several other athletes in other conferences, according to two sources with knowledge of athletes' medical care.

The condition is usually caused by a viral infection, including those that cause the common cold, H1N1 influenza or mononucleosis. Left undiagnosed and untreated, it can cause heart damage and sudden cardiac arrest, which can be fatal. It is a rare condition, but the COVID-19 virus has been linked with myocarditis with a higher frequency than other viruses, based on limited studies and anecdotal evidence since the start of the pandemic."


That took me about 30 seconds, and there are plenty more examples if you do your own googling.


These aren't clinical studies, these are only from people who feel bad enough to go get their heart/lungs checked out and have the means to do so, meaning they are likely a small minority of how much of this is actually out there. My state had our first peak months ago, hospitals in the area are reporting all sorts of new fibrotic and inflammatory related issues in people who were previously perfectly healthy.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: feevers]
    #26893718 - 08/22/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
He changed his stance right around the time that he was raging about how othet people got to stay home and he didn't, and that nurses and doctors were getting all the praise and not weed worker like him.




I changed stance here, when this removed video of Stanford University scientist John Ioannidis said that if Covid were not noticed, 2020 would have gone by as a bad flu year.

This is when I began looking for other sources, different perspectives than those being shoved down everyones ears causing fear and panic as death tolls raised as people locked down, while other essential workers continued on their ways.

Such as myself. Not missing a day of work, not wearing mask other than work and my local game shop, out of respect for the owner.

Why have I not gotten sick?

I don't wash my hands. I don't clean my house, or my car. I don't use hand sanitizer. I have been mingling with my community and ever since I started slamming vitamin C, I haven't felt better at 37 years old.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26893727 - 08/22/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/myocarditis

SUBSCRIBE
SEARCH

Heart Disease  Reference

Heart Disease and Diabetes in 3D
What You Should Know: Myocarditis
Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle (myocardium). Exactly how many people are affected is hard to know because it often has no symptoms.

Many people who get myocarditis are otherwise healthy. Many things can lead to it. The best ways to prevent it are to treat infections quickly and stop them from happening.

Causes
Viral infection is the most common cause of myocarditis.

When you have one, your body produces cells to fight it. These cells release chemicals. If the disease-fighting cells enter your heart, some chemicals they release can inflame your heart muscle.

Some things that can cause myocarditis include:

Coxsackie B viruses
Epstein-Barr virus (EBV)
Cytomegalovirus (CMV)
Hepatitis C
Herpes
HIV
Parvovirus
Chlamydia (a common sexually transmitted disease)
Mycoplasma (bacteria that cause a lung infection)
Streptococcal (strep) bacteria
Staphylococcal (staph) bacteria

Treponema (the cause of syphilis)
Borrelia (the cause of Lyme disease)
Fungal and parasitic infections can also cause it.

Other causes include certain chemicals or allergic reactions to medications or toxins like:

Alcohol
Drugs

Lead
Spider bites
Wasp stings
Snakebites
Chemotherapy and radiation therapy
An autoimmune disease that causes inflammation throughout your body, like lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, may also lead to myocarditis.


Signs and Symptoms
Myocarditis often has no symptoms. In fact, most people recover and never even know they had it.

If you do have symptoms, they may include:

Shortness of breath during exercise at first, then at night while lying down
Abnormal heartbeat, which causes fainting in rare cases
Light-headedness
A sharp or stabbing chest pain or pressure, which may spread to your neck and shoulders
Fatigue
Signs of infection, such as
Fever
Muscle aches
Sore throat
Headache
Diarrhea
Painful joints
Swollen joints, legs, or neck veins
Small amounts of urine
If you have symptoms like these, your doctor will check you for an abnormal or rapid heartbeat, fluid in your lungs, or leg swelling.

To make sure it’s myocarditis and spot causes, your doctor may order tests such as:

Blood tests to check for infection, antibodies, or blood cell counts
A chest X-ray so he can see your heart, lungs, and other chest structures
An electrocardiogram (EKG) to record your heart's electrical activity
A heart ultrasound (echocardiogram) to make an image of your heart and its structures
In a few cases, doctors order cardiac MRI scans or heart muscle biopsies to help confirm it.

Interesting how you left out some things.

Edit. Perhaps these people already had developed myocarditis before contracting covid. Just a thought, considering "Myocarditis often has no symptoms. In fact, most people recover and never even know they had it.".


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Edited by HamHead (08/22/20 03:05 PM)


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead]
    #26893730 - 08/22/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Must be all those murder hornets causing an outbreak in wasp things.

This never before seen outbreak in athletes (who had covid) of a heart condition linked heavily to viruses must totally not have anything to do with the viral pandemic going on.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: feevers]
    #26893734 - 08/22/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feevers said:
Must be all those murder hornets causing an outbreak in wasp things.

This never before seen outbreak in athletes (who had covid) of a heart condition linked heavily to viruses must totally not have anything to do with the viral pandemic going on.




While ignoring drugs and alcohol.

Which has seen a rise of use lately, no?

Also, how often are athletes given MRI scans?


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/


Edited by HamHead (08/22/20 03:09 PM)


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OfflineIce9
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I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,319
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Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: HamHead] * 1
    #26893745 - 08/22/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Top level athlete in college elite programs are screened for heart conditions regularly (every season + every check-up) to ensure it is safe for them to play.  The probability of multiple of these athletes having myocarditis and getting into/staying in a program is essentially 0.  See there you go deflecting again.

Furthermore, these are confirmed that covid-19 gave them myocarditis most likely by biopsy of the heart tissue to determine which virus was inside it.


Again, you can read all the journal articles you want, site sources, and cherry pick data, it doesn't change you have no idea how to interpret the data and hence jump to painfully wrong conclusions.  I.E.  You're kinda dumb.


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


Edited by Ice9 (08/22/20 03:29 PM)


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,982
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Re: The vaccine won't be enough. [Re: Ice9]
    #26893748 - 08/22/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So all these athletes will be losing their jobs then?


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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