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capsahoy
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Casing thickness and side pinning
#26891335 - 08/21/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I hope I understand 'side pinning' correctly. I'm using a 6qt setup with trash bags and tend to see almost all the growth around the sides. Occasionally the odd one or two in the middle but typically not.
I've read through a bunch of posts on it but nothing specific about the casing thickness being the problem (but recommendations on what it should be). It's usually about 1/2-3/4" of *peat moss / verm casing which seems ok.
1) Will they grow through the path of least resistance? 2) Should I be going thinner or not at all? Not be using bags?
*edit peat moss / verm casing
Edited by capsahoy (08/21/20 09:48 AM)
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Goatrider
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: capsahoy]
#26891372 - 08/21/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You should post some pictures. Sounds like you didn't work out the sides well, and created air pockets with. A liner is good if you get lots of condensation. If the liner doesn't stick to the walls, excessive moisture runs down to the bottom of the box.
You may also try this tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662
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capsahoy
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: Goatrider]
#26891386 - 08/21/20 09:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks. Ya the bag isn't stuck well to the sides, sort of sloppy with overhang that flaps when I'm fanning, I didn't have clear direction on an apparent ancient tek I followed. It sounds like moisture running down and the air pockets are the culprit?
What's the best way to 'seat' the bag? Should it cut / taped to be exactly level with the bottom bin?
I'm not using verm at the bottom but it sounds like that could be a way to go without the bag to avoid this?
I'll work on pics if this doesn't help.
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Goatrider
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: capsahoy]
#26891393 - 08/21/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't need a liner at all to prevent side pins. It's just the way you pack the substrate to the sides. I tamp it down a bit more there than the rest. Work out the corners well and it should be fine. By the way the link i posted before is best against side/bottompins.
Don't cut it all the way down, leave a few inches to pull out for harvest.
Edit: You took me wrong, i meant the liner shouldn't stick to the wall, so water can run behind and down the box.
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Goatrider
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: Goatrider]
#26891407 - 08/21/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't want verm at the bottom, doesn't make sense.
What species you grow by the way?
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capsahoy
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: Goatrider]
#26891421 - 08/21/20 09:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I completely missed the link last time, thank you.
In this case I didn't pull out for harvest, I just got in there with a sanitized scalpel and cut them down. It was pretty easy based on the huge size of and low volume of them to navigate. I dunked straight in the tub.
In the tek you sent they look short but crazy dense - if not using a bag With no bag to pull out I'm guessing you just get in there and cut them close enough to the bulk to not pit / damage the bulk then soak it right in that tub?
*Ecuador cubes, I was looking at zombie teks and one mentioned verm at the bottom
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Goatrider
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: capsahoy]
#26891447 - 08/21/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The size of the fruit isn`t related to the tek. It`s always genetics and/or conditions. If i use a liner, it`s most for a fast clean up and faster harvest, and of course due to heavy condensation i get sometimes from temperature swings. So i always take the whole liner out, harvest, and pour the excessive moisture out from under the liner. I don`t dunk by the way, it`s easy to get a waterlogged brick. A heavy mist is just fine.
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capsahoy
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: Goatrider]
#26891520 - 08/21/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Interesting, so may different setups I've read they're super thirsty after the flush, dunk dunk dunk. Do you just mist then business as usual?
Here is what the setup looks like with the bags
Edited by capsahoy (08/21/20 11:06 AM)
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Goatrider
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: capsahoy]
#26891567 - 08/21/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can do different things. If you`re getting a big pinset, there will be spent a lot of water, sure.
But when i dunked them, i never hit the right point to pour off, and always got a bit waterlogged. So nowadays, after a flush i start with a bit bottom watering, pouring some water to edges and let it absorb a while. I decide while harvesting, if this is needed. Often i only mist heavily, works always great for me. Also a good technique is to float your tub for harvest, as you have bottom watering within then. You just have to decide on your own, what it needs, there`s no one-for-all solution.
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A.k.a
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: Goatrider]
#26891600 - 08/21/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That’s a thick casing but shouldn’t matter really.
Side pins are mostly from poor surface conditions. If you trim the bag down to an inch above the sub you can just put the lid on the shoebox and leave it closed until harvest pretty much.
Next time try skipping the casing and just add 1/3” of coir instead after you spawn and level everything.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (08/21/20 11:50 AM)
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capsahoy
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: A.k.a]
#26891690 - 08/21/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Stranger, if I understand correctly I should be able to just trim the bag as it now to an inch above and cover the top with another 6 qt and it should fruit on it's own all the way to finish without fanning or misting? I was looking for a low maintenance option and was going to try the 'zombie' boxes with poly-fil but it sounds like you're saying that may not be necessary. What about FAE?
Also thanks Goat, that's some great feedback.
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A.k.a
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: capsahoy]
#26891752 - 08/21/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yep shoeboxes get plenty of air with the lid on unless yours has a rubber seal on it. Most have a plastic lid that just snaps on.
The liner here is grey but you can see where I cut it. Just high enough to be able to use it to lift the whole sub out to harvest.
 You don’t need to fan it ever and should only need to mist it at most lightly every couple days.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (08/21/20 01:07 PM)
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capsahoy
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: A.k.a]
#26892003 - 08/21/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That would be awesome! The zombie tek I read talked about making holes and using polyfil, if I just cover it with another 6qt sounds like that would work - just set it and forget it?
If it's got too much water now will it just take longer to pin? Conversely if it has just enough it shouldn't dry out? I was stuck on the mist and fan from a bunch of old teks I read which is time consuming, especially bad pre-craziness if I wanted to go away for a few days mid cycle.
I'm not sure the locking lid would work well with this strain because they grow pretty tall
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Goatrider
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: capsahoy]
#26892102 - 08/21/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You may spawn today and leave town for 3 weeks. If you follow the teks, you may return for harvest then. Too much water isn't a good idea, you don't want a waterlogged brick. The surface is important. Strains aren't important, they all grow tall if they want to. Just unsnap the lid, they will push it up.
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smalltalk_canceled
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: Goatrider]
#26892133 - 08/21/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This term, waterlogged, may be foreign to a few of us
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capsahoy
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I've just finished casing a brand new one, I'll leave that and these current ones on auto pilot until they run their course.
I do see a space between the lids now that I've taken a closer look. Should be fun to see how these turn out without a helping hand, can't wait, thanks!
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Goatrider
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Yes, that`s why these shoeboxes work just perfect. I got a brand here in Germany, with a special hole placement on the rim. Usually it`s on the short sides, and i have the option to turn the lid 180° for more air exchange. Not flipping, turning horizontal and latch on, just great.
In the end it`s all up to your environment. You can test it side by side with different shoebox setups, what`s working best for you. Maybe under field capacity with a moist surface, maybe just at field capacity, for you may have a humid environment, and so on. No one can tell you, that`s just up to you.
By the way, why do you go the casing route? It`s not necessary for cubes. Of course you can do, but you can save time with just applying a top layer coco at spawning.
Just one more thing: You called A.k.a a Stranger, so you can call me Rhythm Guitarist.
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: This term, waterlogged, may be foreign to a few of us
As i dunked earlier, my tubs got more water they didn`t need, resulting in an oversaturated brick, i don`t like that. So i just water slowly with shotglasses and let absorb. Often i just mist heavily.
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Nichrome
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Re: Casing thickness and side pinning [Re: Goatrider]
#26892825 - 08/22/20 02:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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They will always fruit where conditions are optimal to do so. If they are side pinning and not fruiting on top then the surface conditions are wrong for that culture somehow. The reason for bad surface conditions could be physical, environmental, chemical, or biological. Sub depth and casing depth are moot.
-------------------- “Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.”
Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson
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